Fixing hole in side of block
- Thread starter joesmith123
- Start date
At my point in life, I no longer have the energy or enthusiasm what you do Joe, but I did when I was younger, and I enjoy watching what you’re doing, and I hope the result is more than satisfactory!
When I look back at what I did when I was younger, it kind of amazes me. I’m sure there are many others here that have followed the same path.
Big thumbs up from Western PA!
When I look back at what I did when I was younger, it kind of amazes me. I’m sure there are many others here that have followed the same path.
Big thumbs up from Western PA!
I also agree that you shouldn't cut corners on the gaskets.
You get what you pay for and sometimes you get more then you bargained for with cheap parts like a return visit to tearing it back apart because they haven't held up well.
You get what you pay for and sometimes you get more then you bargained for with cheap parts like a return visit to tearing it back apart because they haven't held up well.
Going through hitting everything with diesel and wire wheel, scraper to remove seized gaskets
hit entire block with nylon stripping disc on drill
Hitting the cylinders with brass wire wheel, trying to get all the black off the liner
Hit the crankshaft with high speed wire wheel then buffing pad, 2500 rpm, especially the journals
Hit all parts with pressurized parts cleaner
Cleaning while I figure it out
this is one of the holdups: the liner is shifted down a few millimeters
to fix this, I think it would require machine work, is it worth fixing or not a big deal?
another holdup in my head:
whenever hammering out the crankshaft down, the gear was pushed into this ring, the ring did shift a little bit down
My theory: whenever I hammer the crankshaft back in, it should push that ring back into place
should I also replace this part? Does the crankshaft spin on it? Is it part of the bearing system?
now I am just assessing before ordering anything, it gets expensive real quick if you want genuine Kubota parts
my current assessment: replace all the bearing areas, don’t worry about the liner, it’ll be good for few years, and that ring that shifted, it is not part of the bearing system and does not need replaced
im grateful for yalls input
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North Idaho Wolfman
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The liner is not great like that, but it will only affect compression, nothing else.
The extra metals are thrust bearings, and yes they only go on the back bearing.
You need to mic the cylinders to know if you need oversized pistons and or reline it.
The extra metals are thrust bearings, and yes they only go on the back bearing.
You need to mic the cylinders to know if you need oversized pistons and or reline it.
yes, long as it can give a few years of no trouble, then it’s ok
yes I studied them, they have slits in them and face the moving crankshaft for oil distribution
Ok yes I’ll look on Amazon for that tool
here’s a micrometer kit, will this be able to mic my cylinders properly? They are 3 inch cylinders
My understanding: instead getting standard pistons, I can get 3 oversized pistons, since I am having to replace 2 broken pistons anyway. And put all new ring on them. Then maybe I won’t have to reline the block
I do see rebuilders using this tool to hone the cylinders with some type of stone, let me know if I should do this and let me know what grit to get
my instinct: hit the liners with the stone honer, make those areas silky smooth where the piston rings rub thousand of times a minute. The liners are the area of most resistance in an engine, and are the most important areas to polish
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North Idaho Wolfman
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You need these to measure the bore:
Honing the liners and keeping then to the exact tolerance needed is extremely hard to do.
I have a $1000+ into my precision hone setup and I don't like doing them.
The hone you pointed to is not a precision hone, it's just a deglazing hone and will not size the cylinders.
This is style of hone you would use along with several grits of stones:
Get new sleeves and have a machine shop install them and bore them to spec, it will be the best thing overall.
Just by the looks of the pictures this liner is shot, between being pushed down to far it also damaged, it will destroy a set of rings.
This is a bearing, it needs to be removed and the block surface needs cleaned up.
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North Idaho Wolfman
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yes I am listeningGo back and reread the last post as I edited it:
yes if 210 is a bearing, I will pop that one out with air chisel, then make sure I add that part to the list of parts to get from messick
I will look into it, get the sleeves from Kubota, and see the cost of pressing out the old liners, and pressing in the new liners
Piston liners $136 a piece, $400 for all 3 piston liners
I’ll call machine shops and see the cost installing them and then “boring” them
Why would they need boring if they are factory made for this engine?
Could it be that they can be installed and no need for boring?
I would rather go with factory pistons as opposed to oversized pistons since:
if the oversized piston weighs more than the factory piston, then it might mess with overall balance of the engine
Best plan in my head: new piston liners for all three cylinders and have them pressed in, 2 new piston heads to replace the broken pistons
the engine will be balanced and factory spec
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BAP
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As far as your question about boring sleeves after installation, when you press into place a tight fit sleeve or bushing, it compresses slightly to fit in place, changing the internal size. After it is in place, you have to bore it out to the correct internal size.
yes I am listening, meaning:
Even if you got the exact cylinder liner from kubota for the D1301 engine, it would still need "boring" after installation
Ok today I will look around and see the cost of this procedure
I found someone out in the country, we will see if he calls back, I called 10 different places/people
yall please critique and let me know if these statement are true:
"Changing piston liners is part of the rebuild process, engine manufacturers make engines this way because cylinder liners are a huge wearing point, and are normally changed during an engine rebuild."
I am a bit nervous about doing this procedure, I feel like something could get damaged permanently if not done properly. Thats why a part of me is saying:
"Do not mess with the liners since they are not bad enough to need changing, and by doing this procedure, and it could not be done properly, you can do permanent damage to the block, and sometimes it is not worth the risk"
Another detail: The front piston was not broken, and the liner is not damaged and smooth. Can I just change 2 liners instead of 3 to save some $$ since liner #1 is fine?
Or is it better just to change them all since I am so deep in the engine, might as well
Shoot from the hip and let me know yalls thoughts, no rush
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North Idaho Wolfman
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I'm all about Kubota OEM, But you would save yourself a ton of $$$ if you get an aftermarket complete rebuild kit that will have all the pistons, rings, sleeves, bearings, and gaskets.
There is very little difference in the kits from OEM.
One thing to buy is an OEM head gasket and toss the kit head gasket.
You will never know the difference in its running, performance or balance.
Most if not all the kits for these older motors are well within specs of what factory was.
Looking at pics of the engine, especially the oil pump, that motor has had some dirty oil run through it.
I would replace the oil pump because of the scoring of the pump.
Kubota cylinder liners are semi finished, they are not to sized on the inside, just the outside.
This is why they need bored to size.
There is very little difference in the kits from OEM.
One thing to buy is an OEM head gasket and toss the kit head gasket.
You will never know the difference in its running, performance or balance.
Most if not all the kits for these older motors are well within specs of what factory was.
Looking at pics of the engine, especially the oil pump, that motor has had some dirty oil run through it.
I would replace the oil pump because of the scoring of the pump.
Kubota cylinder liners are semi finished, they are not to sized on the inside, just the outside.
This is why they need bored to size.
Yes Im listening, messick prices just for bearings is $1000+
I remember you linked that complete kit for $480 from amazon, I'll go back and find it
What I am thinking:
Japanese bearings for all the parts of failure (main bearings and connecting rod bearings) and all the bolts that hold the bottom end together, make them Japanese/Kubota
Leave the front liner and the front piston factory, but put new Chinese piston rings on piston #1 (not damaged piston, not damaged liner)
2 other cylinders, they would get: new Chinese piston liner, new Chinese piston heads, new Chinese piston rings, old Japanese connecting rods
I understand, whether I get the Kubota or Chinese cylinder liner, it would still need to be bored to spec
fried1765
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PAY ATTENTION to post #93......from NIW !
"aftermarket complete rebuild kit"
It could not be more plainly stated!
Ignore that advice at your own risk!
Yes I am looking now for that kit, I will link it
Ok here's a kit that has pretty much everything I need
New piston heads, new piston rings, new piston liners, all the gaskets, all of the o rings,
I wont use the bearings from this kit
I did see someone rebuilding a v2203 and said:
"There are tons of these engines still running in china, and they make really good rebuild kits for them"
North Idaho Wolfman
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The bearings in the kits are fine, there is little to no difference.
Do not do just 2 liners and pistons do all three!
Do not do just 2 liners and pistons do all three!
Yes I will shut my brain off and just go for it
Get the chinese kit, drive around with the block and the new liners until:
I find a shop to press out old liners and press in new liners, and bore them to spec
It should not be too costly since everything is accessible, it might be 1-2 hours of labor
Ill drive an hour into the country to find someone less hectic/better cost
Then I go back to the working area and start the reassembly
Yes, your statements is the reason why I decided to slow this thing way down, I need to get this part of the process done properly
I'll show yall what I figured out:
Here's someone in the same situation, trying to put in new pistons
Just like the forum said, if you get pistons from kubota, they will not fit, the sleeve needs to be bored for the piston to fit
And the genuine kubota pistons are not coming from japan, they are Indonesian
Piston liners: I might be able to hammer out the liners, and hammer in new liners
Here's a clip of someone removing cylinder liner using flathead and hammer
Ok here's him installing new cylinder liner using: 4x4 wood block, and hammer
Here is another video of someone hammering down on the liner with flathead, removing it from the block
My thoughts before seeing these videos: the liner is fused to the block and cannot be removed with hammers etc
Not true, one can take out liners and put in new liners without going to machine shop
Question: how does the liner not go up and down when the piston is rubbing on it up and down? I get it cant go up since the head will stop it, but what is stopping it from going down?
Let me know if these statement are true:
"Liners are like bearings, they are made to be replaced and should be replaced when doing overhaul."
"The area of most resistance in the bottom area of engine, is the piston rings rubbing on the cylinder liner."
"This engine, since piston #2 and #3 had cracks in them, that is signs that something is off in the way the piston is going up and down that bore hole, leading to the need to put in new liners, and bore them out to factory spec"
What is the yalls theory as why pistons break?
I am slowing things down because I need to get this part of the build right
I do see people when installing new liners: Put the engine block in the sun for hours, put the liner in the freezer overnight, take the liner out of the freezer, lube it up, and hammer it down into the block using 4x4 wood
I am working on another job, but once i get back to it, I will try to remove the liners
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