Fixing hole in side of block

[D2Cat]

Better make contact with "007kubotaguy" and see if he has an engine to put in there.

 

[jiggseob]

The big question at this point seems to be "is it necessary to remove crankshaft?" Theoretically, no.

Practically, I cannot visualize a scenario in which a connecting rod fails in a manner that punches out the block, and does not score/damage the crankpin (connecting rod big-end) journal. However, anything is possible.

However this proceeds, the crankshaft is not the place to skimp or cheap-out, reassembling at the loose-end of the service limit will probably only get you a few hundred hours, and next time it flies apart the whole thing may be scrap.

For the connecting rod to separate and punch a hole in the thick, very robust Kubota block, the rod had to be rotating metal-on-metal and knocking HARD for a while. The heat generated would have absolutely certainly contributed to the weakening and failure of the connecting rod. The other side of that friction surface, the crankshaft journal, will have been similarly heated. The crankshaft has more mass, so the equal amount of friction would have generated less heat in the greater-mass crankshaft, but that friction likely degraded the hardening of the surface of the crankshaft.

As a piece of the broken connecting rod stayed attached to the crankshaft and rotated around and punched out the block, the force of punching out the block would have been exerted on the crankshaft in a direction and manner for which the crankshaft is not engineered to withstand. It will be a miracle if that crankshaft is not bent beyond practical usability.

I hope the robust construction of Kubota engine has withstood this failure, and you can get it together and running reliably with the crankshaft in-place.

 

[joesmith123]

the crankshaft is not the place to skimp or cheap-out,

I have been away from this project on a construction site but I am listening

I will do whatever yall instruct me to, and it will most likely be that I have to do the job properly, and get behind the block to take out the big crankshaft

I have gone this far, might as well go the whole way, right?

the force of punching out the block would have been exerted on the crankshaft in a direction and manner for which the crankshaft is not engineered to withstand.

Yes I am imagining this statement, it is convincing me to have to go the whole way with this project

and you can get it together and running reliably with the crankshaft in-place

I should be back at this project maybe this weekend, but I am willing to go the extra route and do the job right

If you want to hear it before it blew up, there is videos on here from a year ago, and people did say there is a "knock"

Once I get it more apart, I will take pictures and yall can tell me what to do

I do have another L295 with 1500 hours that has a good block, I am sure yall can instruct me to:

Take out that engine, and use parts to make this engine proper/long lasting/not troubled

I need to learn/understand before asking/speaking, for example:

I am not sure whether I can take the crankshaft from the spare engine, and use it on this engine because:

I do not know the details of which parts are interchangeable, and which parts are specific to the block

I am sure one of yall knows the right plan, and we will get to it soon, take care

 

[joesmith123]

Yes, I removed damaged piston

Not only is the connecting rod bent, but the piston is broken where the connecting rod hit it

On the piston with the damage, it looks like it slammed into the liner and did block damage

Do you see how the other pistons do not have this indentation?

With this issue, is it not that big of a deal because:

I can hammer out the current liner and replace it with another and it should be fine

Let me know if this statement is correct

No not true, the head can be swapped without changing the block.

You are going to need at minimum a new (used) connecting rod and cap, and 2 connecting rod bolts.
and rod bearings.

HUGE gamble that the mains are not damaged or that the rod journal (that threw the rod) will be in good enough shape to even accept a bearing, let alone run it without failure.

you can replace the connecting rod and piston, and leave the crankshaft in place, then you do not have to split the tractor.

I extracted these statements since they give the conclusion that at this point:

I can get from the spare L295:

Center piston assembly: piston head, rings, the connecting rod

Then get from messick brand new:

All new connecting rod bearings for ALL cylinders, all new connecting bolts for all cylinders

Theoretically, if I do these tasks, it should run fine, correct?

I understand that the recommended advice is to take out the crankshaft and also install new main bearings

As far as the location of the main bearings, yall are referring to:

Am I pointing at the location of the main bearings?

Messick does have main bearings 1 for $339, main bearings 2 for $209

If i also want to change the main bearings, where I have to remove block from tractor

Can I get main bearings from messick and they would work fine on this block/crankshaft?



Now, I am searching for acytelene oxy setup to repair the patch on the block

Forget Acetylene, use a mig welder with nickel wire.

I know the recommendation is mig welder and nickel wire

The problem: it sounds expensive and there is no electricity available, And

With the acetylene oxy setup, I can also cut steel for fabrication

At this point, it is the best bang for the buck

This is one I might go get on sunday, let me know if it will be suitable for these tasks:

1. weld the patch on the block with the hole in it
2. Cut 1/4 steel, and cut steel beams
3. Reintegrate the bucket that is broken in half
4. General all kind of welding: broken buckets, broken brackets, weld on a nut to be able to fasten onto that steel

I do see some say "cutting torch" as opposed to welding torch (I am guessing)

Can I cut steel and weld steel with the same torch?

Could I get this torch, and get nickel wire, and use that setup to patch the block?

I am gathering data, and not purchasing anything until I have a better plan

Feel free to critique and answer any of the issues/questions, no rush, thanks

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I hate to tell you, that motor is done.

1: The chances of the block not having a water jacket crack and leak are very rare.
A hit like that send cracks up behind a dry liner.

2: And this is a Killer, you can not just beat out the liner and simply replace them.
You have to press the liners in and then you need to bore them to size.
These liners are not finish sized.
I order to do all of that you would need to strip the block down.

 

[joesmith123]

I hate to tell you, that motor is done.

1: The chances of the block not having a water jacket crack and leak are very rare.
A hit like that send cracks up behind a dry liner.

2: And this is a Killer, you can not just beat out the liner and simply replace them.
You have to press the liners in and then you need to bore them to size.

Yes, if that engine is finished and not worth me tinkering with it, then, how about this idea:

The spare L295 (2500 hours, no hole in the block) will run, but will have leaks all over the engine etc

My plan: forget the engine with the hole in it for now, go and make the engine WITHOUT the hole in it suitable

I will go soon and drag that tractor with chains and park it next to this tractor

Then I will work on getting her started, my general question:

What should I do to that engine that will protect it and make it long lasting?

My understanding: If I change the connecting rod bearings, and the crankshaft bearings with NEW parts (genuine made in japan by kubota), then

Theoretically, that engine with 2500 hours should run silky smooth for a long time reliably

Let me know which direction yall would take if you were in my shoes, thank you

 

[D2Cat]

I would define the leaks you mention. Where are they, why is it leaking, etc. If engine has good compression and only 1500 hrs. I'd fix the leaks and use it.

 

[Ktrim]

View attachment 129645

Yes, I removed damaged piston

View attachment 129646

Not only is the connecting rod bent, but the piston is broken where the connecting rod hit it

View attachment 129651

On the piston with the damage, it looks like it slammed into the liner and did block damage

View attachment 129649

Do you see how the other pistons do not have this indentation?

With this issue, is it not that big of a deal because:

I can hammer out the current liner and replace it with another and it should be fine

Let me know if this statement is correct












I extracted these statements since they give the conclusion that at this point:

I can get from the spare L295:

Center piston assembly: piston head, rings, the connecting rod

Then get from messick brand new:

All new connecting rod bearings for ALL cylinders, all new connecting bolts for all cylinders

Theoretically, if I do these tasks, it should run fine, correct?

I understand that the recommended advice is to take out the crankshaft and also install new main bearings

As far as the location of the main bearings, yall are referring to:
View attachment 129652

Am I pointing at the location of the main bearings?

View attachment 129664

Messick does have main bearings 1 for $339, main bearings 2 for $209

If i also want to change the main bearings, where I have to remove block from tractor

Can I get main bearings from messick and they would work fine on this block/crankshaft?



Now, I am searching for acytelene oxy setup to repair the patch on the block




I know the recommendation is mig welder and nickel wire

The problem: it sounds expensive and there is no electricity available, And

With the acetylene oxy setup, I can also cut steel for fabrication

At this point, it is the best bang for the buck

View attachment 129663

This is one I might go get on sunday, let me know if it will be suitable for these tasks:

1. weld the patch on the block with the hole in it
2. Cut 1/4 steel, and cut steel beams
3. Reintegrate the bucket that is broken in half
4. General all kind of welding: broken buckets, broken brackets, weld on a nut to be able to fasten onto that steel

I do see some say "cutting torch" as opposed to welding torch (I am guessing)

Can I cut steel and weld steel with the same torch?

Could I get this torch, and get nickel wire, and use that setup to patch the block?

I am gathering data, and not purchasing anything until I have a better plan

Feel free to critique and answer any of the issues/questions, no rush, thanks

You can plainly see damage to the rod journal in the pic.

 

[joesmith123]

I would define the leaks you mention. Where are they, why is it leaking, etc. If engine has good compression and only 1500 hrs. I'd fix the leaks and us it.

I was only able to run it for 10 minutes previously before I decided to put effort into the engine that eventually blasted a hole in the block, BUT

I remember:
1. leaks all over the fuel system (those I can solve with new copper washers where the injectors sit)
2. Oil leaks from valve cover (fixable), Oil leaks from oil pan (also fixable)

Generally: the engine has 3 times as much hours as the one that blew up, some of the bolts have loosened, I will go through and fasten everything tight

I will today go and try to get it started for yall, and I want to get very close analytical details for y'all to critique and tell me what to do to make sure this engine doesn't blow up

I plan on getting very high quality video and maybe use a stethoscope for y'all to assess what I need to do on this engine so it doesn't blow up

the main question in my head:

If you got a 40 year old diesel engine with 1500 hours on it, what would you do to it to make it as reliable as possible?

What are the exact parts yall want me to change to make it last awhile?

My guess: change all the bearings because those are the "moving" parts, and that is where all the wear lies

Change: all the bearings on the connecting rods, and change the MAIN crankshaft bearings

So far from what y'all see, is this statement true:

If I would have changed the connecting rod bearings on the engine before it blew a hole in the block, there is a great chance that it would NOT have blown a hole in the side of the block

Since:

Once I took apart the area, we see that the connecting rod and the connecting rod bearings of the center cylinder were the main culprits

We are sure that: The problem was not the MAIN crankshaft bearings, but the smaller connecting rod bearings

I am asking, not stating these sentences

Please critique my statements, I am grateful

 

[joesmith123]

You can plainly see damage to the rod journal in the pic.

Your statement: Where I have circled, one can see damage to the "rod journal", what I am circling is the rod journal

If I touch that part that I have circled, there is no noticeable indentations or alterations to the crankshaft

 

[dragfan66]

View attachment 129709

Your statement: Where I have circled, one can see damage to the "rod journal", what I am circling is the rod journal

If I touch that part that I have circled, there is no noticeable indentations or alterations to the crankshaft

That journal looks very bad to me. I don't recall seeing the bearings from that rod in the pics.
Why not remove another rod cap and look at the bearing and the journal so you have something to compare it to?

The debris in the oil pan is a good indication that engine has to come out and be properly rebuilt.

 

[joesmith123]

I don't recall seeing the bearings from that rod in the pics

They disintegrated and were turned to shards, they are still in the oil pan, oil pan is filled with shards of metal, I am assuming that was the connecting rod bearings

Why not remove another rod cap and look at the bearing and the journal so you have something to compare it to?

I did remove rod bolts on front cylinder, looked at that rod bearing, that rod bearing was not damaged

And: where rod bearing connects with crankshaft, it looked the same as the rod journal of the damaged cylinder

The debris in the oil pan is a good indication that engine has to come out and be properly rebuilt.

yes plan with this engine: take off entire block and examine it to assess whether to go forward or not

make sure you can put in new sleeve for center cylinder, and make sure to lookout for what wolf said, check to see that it does not have cracks behind the liner of the center cylinder

meaning: do not put any more money into the block until I figure out that there is not more block damage behind the liner

 

[dragfan66]

I was only able to run it for 10 minutes previously before I decided to put effort into the engine that eventually blasted a hole in the block, BUT

I remember:
1. leaks all over the fuel system (those I can solve with new copper washers where the injectors sit) Need to fix these leaks first.
2. Oil leaks from valve cover (fixable), Oil leaks from oil pan (also fixable)

Generally: the engine has 3 times as much hours as the one that blew up, some of the bolts have loosened, I will go through and fasten everything tight. You are hung up on the engine hours, what if it didn't have an hour meter? What if the hour meter is broken and you actually have way more hours than indicated?

I will today go and try to get it started for yall, and I want to get very close analytical details for y'all to critique and tell me what to do to make sure this engine doesn't blow up

I plan on getting very high quality video and maybe use a stethoscope for y'all to assess what I need to do on this engine so it doesn't blow up

the main question in my head:

If you got a 40 year old diesel engine with 1500 hours on it, what would you do to it to make it as reliable as possible? No one can answer that without x-ray vision.

What are the exact parts yall want me to change to make it last awhile?

My guess: change all the bearings because those are the "moving" parts, and that is where all the wear lies

Change: all the bearings on the connecting rods, and change the MAIN crankshaft bearings

So far from what y'all see, is this statement true:

If I would have changed the connecting rod bearings on the engine before it blew a hole in the block, there is a great chance that it would NOT have blown a hole in the side of the block

Since:

Once I took apart the area, we see that the connecting rod and the connecting rod bearings of the center cylinder were the main culprits

We are sure that: The problem was not the MAIN crankshaft bearings, but the smaller connecting rod bearings

I am asking, not stating these sentences

Please critique my statements, I am grateful

See RED comments above.
Drain the oil and look for contamination or foreign matter.
Pressure test the cooling system.
Do a compression test.

Run the engine and look for unusual smoke, knocks, rattles, etc. and go from there.

But if you really want to be sure, do a complete teardown and overhaul.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Ktrim]

As a builder of many engines, tractor and automotive, I have to say either install donor engine as it is or have it properly redone. Putting new parts in an old tired engine without at least polishing crank and honing cylinders; if everything mics up ok; is a waste of your time and money.
Bearings and rings will not wear into out of round or worn surfaces. They will self destruct.

 

[jaxs]

I seldom see someone on OTT i envy but Joesmith I would trade my front seat in the eternal inferno to be your kind of swashbuckler shouting "details be da__ed,full speed ahead" in the face of something like this.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Kubota Engines normally do way more than 1500 hour, I have 4 here that have anywhere from 2000 to 8000 hours and all of them run perfectly fine.
So with 1500 hours, I would put a gasket kit on it to fix the leaks and run it as is.

 

[joesmith123]

Setup the second L295, dragged it using BX1500 and straps

L295 with 2500 hours, before I hit it with gasoline

All the parts in one pile from the L295 with hole in the block



Cleaning the 2nd engine, getting ready to fix it

Hit the damaged block with pressurized gasoline

So far I had to: extend a wire to give glow plugs power, installed the key switch from the other L295, Retightened all the top bolts

Next step: get this one running, then find all the leaks, and eliminate them, and look around for all the loose bolts and tighten those

I'll make sure all fluids are good, and get her running tomorrow

 

[joesmith123]

Pressure test the cooling system.
Do a compression test.

Yes, I will be conducting these tests on the engines to solve issues and look for bigger problems

Engine with the hole in it: Next time I am fixing this engine, I can button it back up, and put pressure in the cooling system to see if the blow to the block caused it more damage than just the hole, and make sure she still holds water pressure

compression test: engine with 2500 hours and no hole in it: last time I had it running, I remember it sputtering off and I would have to hold the throttle to keep it running

I will do compression test on it to see the overall tightness of the cylinders

Putting new parts in an old tired engine without at least polishing crank and honing cylinders; if everything mics up ok; is a waste of your time and money.

Meaning: if I put in new connecting rod bearings but leave the main bearings and NOT go through the comprehensive process of a overhaul, I am wasting time/money

(this is how I read this statement)

Honing/polishing: I did see the guy rebuilt this engine, youtube video in this thread, he polished and honed the cylinders/pistons himself, I plan on doing the same thing

Bearings and rings will not wear into out of round or worn surfaces. They will self destruct.

Meaning: just because the area looks fine, doesn't mean that it is. In my case, that blow to the crankshaft might look like it did NOT damage the crankshaft, the damage could be hidden and could cause catastrophic engine damage again if I dont do the complete overhaul


(that is how I read that statement)

Kubota Engines normally do way more than 1500 hour, I have 4 here that have anywhere from 2000 to 8000 hours and all of them run perfectly fine.
So with 1500 hours, I would put a gasket kit on it to fix the leaks and run it as is.

I made a mistake, the hours are about 2500, and the machine does look neglected/tough life

We will see what happens tomorrow once I tighten everything up, fix all the leaks

Once I get it running, I post closeup videos and sounds, and I do the tests yall tell me to do to check compression, valves, knocks, etc.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I made a mistake, the hours are about 2500, and the machine does look neglected/tough life

We will see what happens tomorrow once I tighten everything up, fix all the leaks

Once I get it running, I post closeup videos and sounds, and I do the tests yall tell me to do to check compression, valves, knocks, etc.

A compression test will give a better idea of the internal condition of the engine.

 

[dragfan66]

You need to get some of those plastic totes with lids or something to keep all of your parts in.
If not, you will spend half your time looking for them.