Fixing hole in side of block

[Russell King]

The liners are meant to be replaced when they need to be replaced. If they are dam or oversized due to wear they must be replaced. There are oversized pistons and rings made for when the liners are worn or slightly damaged but they only go so much oversized.

You can probably get the liners out and back in but they then have to be bored to the correct inner diameter for the smallest piston and ring set that you purchase. The liners are probably some type of solid steel tube (thicker wall than you get) and the outside diameter is turned to a certain diameter with some tolerance so it fits into the bore of the block. Then the inner diameter is probably bored out some to end up close to the final bore but too small for the piston to fit properly. When this is in the machining process it is probably supported by the machine tooling so it stays round. But as soon as it is taken out of the machine the residual stresses in the material will deform the thin walled cylinder into some shape that is not perfectly round. When the block was machined the bore where these liners is bored round with a tight tolerance and will force the thin walled cylinders back into shape as they are installed. There will be significant friction force on the outer diameter so it will not move. The rings on the piston will not have as much friction force on the inner diameter to move the liner. If a ring does break and gouges into the liner it could potentially cause the liner to move but that is probably not likely due to the way the block is bored and the head but not impossible. I think the liners could be slightly longer than the bore in the block when manufactured. So during the process the liners must be bored to the proper inner diameter and also the top of the block will be milled flat so the liners don’t project above the surface of the block.

In short the liners MUST be machined to size after they are installed into the block.

I think the machine shop would want to do the removal and installation of the sleeves in their shop so they can control that process to be safe for the future machining process. They might not provide any warranty or guarantee if they were installed before the block was delivered to them. Plus they probably do something similar all the time so have some experience with the process.

I don’t know where on the earth you reside (since you are reluctant to place yourself on a particular continent) but you should consider what the machine shop wants before you start making decisions on the liner removal. Call a few and ask because different places on earth probably have different processes and procedures for the same end results.

 

[fried1765]

The liners are meant to be replaced when they need to be replaced. If they are dam or oversized due to wear they must be replaced. There are oversized pistons and rings made for when the liners are worn or slightly damaged but they only go so much oversized.

You can probably get the liners out and back in but they then have to be bored to the correct inner diameter for the smallest piston and ring set that you purchase. The liners are probably some type of solid steel tube (thicker wall than you get) and the outside diameter is turned to a certain diameter with some tolerance so it fits into the bore of the block. Then the inner diameter is probably bored out some to end up close to the final bore but too small for the piston to fit properly. When this is in the machining process it is probably supported by the machine tooling so it stays round. But as soon as it is taken out of the machine the residual stresses in the material will deform the thin walled cylinder into some shape that is not perfectly round. When the block was machined the bore where these liners is bored round with a tight tolerance and will force the thin walled cylinders back into shape as they are installed. There will be significant friction force on the outer diameter so it will not move. The rings on the piston will not have as much friction force on the inner diameter to move the liner. If a ring does break and gouges into the liner it could potentially cause the liner to move but that is probably not likely due to the way the block is bored and the head but not impossible. I think the liners could be slightly longer than the bore in the block when manufactured. So during the process the liners must be bored to the proper inner diameter and also the top of the block will be milled flat so the liners don’t project above the surface of the block.

In short the liners MUST be machined to size after they are installed into the block.

I think the machine shop would want to do the removal and installation of the sleeves in their shop so they can control that process to be safe for the future machining process. They might not provide any warranty or guarantee if they were installed before the block was delivered to them. Plus they probably do something similar all the time so have some experience with the process.

I don’t know where on the earth you reside (since you are reluctant to place yourself on a particular continent) but you should consider what the machine shop wants before you start making decisions on the liner removal. Call a few and ask because different places on earth probably have different processes and procedures for the same end results.

Maybe......Tajikistan ????

 

[Jim L.]

Russell has given really good advice. If anything hiccups, the shop (will, can) claim that it it not their fault but yours. Also, shops like to do the "whole job" and not little jobs because of overhead. Russell has given us something to think about.

 

[joesmith123]

The rings on the piston will not have as much friction force on the inner diameter to move the liner.

Yes I am comprehending, the rings rubbing on the liner is not enough friction to move the liner

If a ring does break and gouges into the liner it could potentially cause the liner to move but that is probably not likely due to the way the block is bored and the head but not impossible.

That center liner on the engine I am fixing, it did shift down a bit, and when I took the piston out, the piston was broken

I am guessing that the piston gouged into the liner and pulled it down a bit

Yesterday, tried hammering on the liner with 2x4 in between hammer and liner, attempting to move it back into place, could not get it to budge

Here is the spec sheet for L295

The bore on this engine is 82 mm

82 mm is referring to the diameter of the cylinder hole WITH the liner installed, correct?

I am getting ready to get the liners, and take them to machine shop, I just want to have the number ready to tell them for when they bore out the unfinished liner

The basic instruction I am giving the machine shop: "Put in the new sleeves, and bore it to 82 mm"

Should I take the pistons and rings and install them there to make sure it is ok, or

Long as it is bored to 82 mm, it should be fine, dont take the pistons to the machine shop, just install them once you get the engine block back with the bored out sleeves

https://a.co/d/7t5llbL

This is the kit I am fixing to get, I looked through them to see if one is better than the other, but they all look pretty much the same

Let me know if I am correct, take care

 

[Ktrim]

You need to take the crank and get it checked. I'd it

 

[Ktrim]

You need to take the crank and get it checked. I'd it

If it needs to be cut undersized you'll need oversized bearings

 

[DustyRusty]

Have you talked to a local Kubota dealer about ordering the parts you will need? You won't be paying shipping on some heavy parts, and even if they charge you a sales tax, it might still be the same as Messicks. Messicks is required to collect sales tax under the new rules, however, I don't know if they are doing it yet. I have found that the local Kubota dealer charges the same prices as Messicks, and they get whatever I need on their stock order, so there are no shipping costs to me. When I have a question, I can usually get an answer from either the parts department or the service department. By supporting the local dealer, you are supporting the local people who work there. Messicks is large enough that they can survive without taking business away from local dealers. The only time that I order from Messicks is when they have it in stock and the Kubota warehouse is out of stock on the item.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Don't use the condensed info for bore specs, use the engine rebuild WSM, it will more info like this which is needed to do a rebuild.

 

[fried1765]

Have you talked to a local Kubota dealer about ordering the parts you will need? You won't be paying shipping on some heavy parts, and even if they charge you a sales tax, it might still be the same as Messicks. Messicks is required to collect sales tax under the new rules, however, I don't know if they are doing it yet. I have found that the local Kubota dealer charges the same prices as Messicks, and they get whatever I need on their stock order, so there are no shipping costs to me. When I have a question, I can usually get an answer from either the parts department or the service department. By supporting the local dealer, you are supporting the local people who work there. Messicks is large enough that they can survive without taking business away from local dealers. The only time that I order from Messicks is when they have it in stock and the Kubota warehouse is out of stock on the item.

I have a bit of a different take on that.
My local Kubota dealer is 80+ miles away.
Thus, shipping and tax are always an issue, for me.
My "go to" is always Messick's.
I have both a Ford and a Kubota.
Messick's is INCREDIBLY helpful with sourcing hard to find parts.
"Local" Kubota dealer has been consistently ambivalent.

 

[jaxs]

I have a bit of a different take on that.
My local Kubota dealer is 80+ miles away.
Thus, shipping and tax are always an issue, for me.
My "go to" is always Messick's.
I have both a Ford and a Kubota.
Messick's is INCREDIBLY helpful with sourcing hard to find parts.
"Local" Kubota dealer has been consistently ambivalent.

Admit it you can no longer run with the big dogs.

 

[Russell King]

Don't use the condensed info for bore specs, use the engine rebuild WSM, it will more info like this which is needed to do a rebuild.

View attachment 130930

Just idle curiosity on my part but the cylinder liner ID has the letters RV (smaller bore) and AL (larger bore). I assume those numbers are the tolerance limits but can’t figure out what those letters mean. Does anyone have any insight on that?

 

[Shadetree605]

Yes I am comprehending, the rings rubbing on the liner is not enough friction to move the liner




That center liner on the engine I am fixing, it did shift down a bit, and when I took the piston out, the piston was broken

I am guessing that the piston gouged into the liner and pulled it down a bit

Yesterday, tried hammering on the liner with 2x4 in between hammer and liner, attempting to move it back into place, could not get it to budge

View attachment 130825

Here is the spec sheet for L295

The bore on this engine is 82 mm

82 mm is referring to the diameter of the cylinder hole WITH the liner installed, correct?

I am getting ready to get the liners, and take them to machine shop, I just want to have the number ready to tell them for when they bore out the unfinished liner

The basic instruction I am giving the machine shop: "Put in the new sleeves, and bore it to 82 mm"

Should I take the pistons and rings and install them there to make sure it is ok, or

Long as it is bored to 82 mm, it should be fine, dont take the pistons to the machine shop, just install them once you get the engine block back with the bored out sleeves

https://a.co/d/7t5llbL

This is the kit I am fixing to get, I looked through them to see if one is better than the other, but they all look pretty much the same

Let me know if I am correct, take care

gonna bounce on this: when you bore any block, cylinder ?, ALWAYS have the pistons on hand, if the machine shop does the work ?, either let them order the pistons ?, or..have the pistons up front, hand them to them, tell them to bore the cylinders to fit the pistons. regardless of what the measurement bore is now ?..or later when bored ?..you AWLAYS want to have the pistons on hand to check for measurements when you ?, or a machine shop bores the cylinders. been watching a few flutube video's, and i can tell you right now..when you or the machine shop installs the liners ?..even std. pistons will not fit in the sleaves !..new sleaves will have to be bored over to match pistons, regardless of what size liners or pistons you order ?,

 

[fried1765]

Admit it you can no longer run with the big dogs.

Admitted!

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Just idle curiosity on my part but the cylinder liner ID has the letters RV (smaller bore) and AL (larger bore). I assume those numbers are the tolerance limits but can’t figure out what those letters mean. Does anyone have any insight on that?

I have to search for the answer to this, it is in one of the books.
I think (PURE off the top of my head GUESS) RV = Reached variable, AL = Absolute Limit.

 

[whitetiger]

RV = Reached variable, AL = Absolute Limit.

Very close, but they are:
RV: Reference Value
AL: Allowable Limit

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Very close, but they are:
RV: Reference Value
AL: Allowable Limit

Thank you for the correction, my guessing game was off.

 

[Russell King]

Very close, but they are:
RV: Reference Value
AL: Allowable Limit

Thank you and @North Idaho Wolfman for the information.

 

[joesmith123]

Don't use the condensed info for bore specs, use the engine rebuild WSM, it will more info like this which is needed to do a rebuild.

View attachment 130930

Thank you for this, I will give this to the machine shop

when you bore any block, cylinder ?, ALWAYS have the pistons on hand, if the machine shop does the work ?, either let them order the pistons ?, or..have the pistons up front, hand them to them, tell them to bore the cylinders to fit the pistons. regardless of what the measurement bore is now

Yes I am comprehending: When I take the block to machine shop, have the exact pistons that are going in that engine block, and I will also have that data sheet wolf provided, and they will be able to hone the liners to the correct specification

China overhaul kit

Anyone order an overhaul kit from eBay shipped from China are they worth using or substandard have an older b7100 thinking of trying one tractor doesn’t get used a lot but want it to go when needed don’t want to do this twice thanks everyone

www.orangetractortalks.com

Possible Hydrolock - Cause

B2150 with V1200-5B engine I have a possible hydrolock on my hands. Yesterday I started my tractor, let it warm up a little at a high idle, then went to hook up to my 3-pt finish mower. Noticed the tach was jumping around weird, needle went way past max RPM (engine did not), but hour meter...

www.orangetractortalks.com

I did come across these threads on this forum. Someone installed a chinese kit and instantly after less than 1 hour, had white smoke, something with the piston rings

Generally, the consensus in the replies was, "Dont put cheap chinese stuff internally, but you can put chinese things externally"

I am busy on another job, but what I'm thinking:

Get the chinese kit to fill in all the gaskets, o rings, this or that, all the little stuff BUT

For the main bearings and connecting rod bearings, and maybe even the liners, get genuine kubota

I'm still deciding on whether to use the knock off pistons and rings, or genuine pistons and rings. Or maybe, chinese pistons with GENUINE rings

Its gonna be a hybrid of the two, cheap chinese kit, and genuine kubota where it matters

I'll figure it out

 

[joesmith123]

Rebuilt the head

Best way to put in the springs, and those tiny pieces of holders, put the head close to grip, position it in the way shown in the picture, push down on the ball joint separator, then use big flathead to push down those little metal pieces into place

rebuilt head

This was part number 210 in the diagram, took it out using air chisel, I need that set of pieces of steel of different diameters so I can hammer parts like this without destroying them

brushed diesel onto flywheel, hit it with 2500 rpm 6 inch wire wheel on polisher

Engine gear cover: removed all the stuck on gaskets using window scraper, went through all holes with a pic, hit it with different size front facing wire wheel on drill (dip wire wheel in diesel, hit the entire gear cover, stop drill, run it the opposite direction, dip again in diesel and repeat), unclogged all avenues of liquids, bottom had clogs in some of the ports

This was where that part 210 come out from, hit it with wire wheel of proper size on drill, both directions for 5 minutes, it does look like an avenue of oil, front of crankshaft spins on this

inside of gear cover after hitting it with different abrasives, then hit with pressurized parts cleaner

Flywheel after being hit with pressurized parts cleaner, it had tons of sludge on one section, my thinking: it needs to be cleaned since there would be more weight on one area, unbalancing the flywheel

Back of flywheel

Front of gear cover after hit with parts cleaner, made sure to go through and open up all ports with pic, went through with blade on window scraper and took out all gasket materials, front facing wire wheel of different sizes to get the different holes, spin in both directions, keep dipping in diesel

I ordered all parts from different sources, it will take few weeks to get here, I still havent figured it out, I did find a piston for $50 and that should be here friday, have one liner coming soon, ordered all the bearings genuine kubota, they have not shipped and dont know when, it'll figure itself out no rush

next steps: I been using shovels and rakes to level the shop floor, fixing to build more table space to sit down and go through all the screws, pumps, gears, all the areas of gasket, clean them, wire wheels, window scraper, pretty much 2 pallets put together and with legs, and then build a stool of some kind

Take apart engine with the hole in it: Once I build more table space and level the ground and have a better setup, then start taking apart engine with hole in it, prepare area to organize those parts and to clean those parts separate from the other engine without the hole in it, clean and organize that engine, I might take the two pistons from that engine, and use them for the other engine...

i'll figure it out

 

[joesmith123]

reassembled front axle from tractor with the hole in block and moved it, preparing to get take that block off as well

Built 2 more tables out of pallets to organize parts for teardown of engine with hole in it

Engine with 600 hours, gearcase removed

More table space to get ready to reassembly the good block

All of the parts ready for the reassembly (of the engine without the hole in it)

Bolts for all the gears, ran them through diesel, then parts cleaner

More bolts for engine block cleaned

All of the parts hit with cleaners, pressurized air, brushes, etc, ready for reassembly

More bolts, assortment

Head gasket from engine with 600 hours (with the hole in the block): hit it with wire wheel, nylon stripping disc on drill, pressurized parts cleaner, decided to save it and use it on the other engine, head gasket for that engine was damaged, discarded

other tasks I had to do: raking the shop floor leveling it, going through all the bolts, assessing if I forgot to order small parts, worried about small adjustments but I'll figure them out once the time comes

next steps: once the liners arrive, sharpen a flathead or chisel, hammer down the two bad liners (did not hammer them out yet in case liners did not make it), put the new liners in the freezer for a duration, try to put the liners in then figure out the machine shop task, start to reassemble the crankshaft with the bearings, I am not getting new crankshaft bolts, there might be a gasket on one of the main bearing cases, I have been hitting one with wire wheel attempting to clean it well(i'll look into the diagram), clean the area where the crankshaft connects to tractor, the bell housing, wire wheel, and grease that fitting on the clutch

basically: put in the new liners and hone them to spec, reassemble the crankshaft properly, dont forget that bearing 210, install block back onto tractor

Any parts I forgot to get, I will pull them from the 600 hour engine and use them for the 2500 hour engine, including: connecting rod bolts, and any other parts for later in the build