The PRICE of super UDT2 - are you kidding?

[kubotafreak]

RickyBobby,

If you bought this machine recently, the dealer will comp you some fluid. I messaged your other post about the fitting.

 

[Tractor Gal]

Another viewpoint. We all know that in order to stay in business, there must be a profit. While I would not relish paying large sums for repairs if I can do it myself, I am not quite as hard nosed when it comes to parts.

I have purchased some parts online from Messick's. They have good service, most parts are in stock, etc. BUT, I've recently come to the conclusion that I need to buy locally when I can. The dealer here gives a choice for parts orders: if you need it now and they don't have it in stock, they can order it and bill you for the shipping. OR, you can have your part added to their weekly order from Kubota and there is no shipping fee. Since the dealer isn't far away, that's a nice option. Sooner or later, I suspect that I will be glad that they are still in business.

To stay on topic, the local dealer sells UDT2 for about $27/gallon. 2.5 gallon jug is about $56. Since it's heavy, I wouldn't buy online anyway.

My 2 cents worth...no change coming.

 

[nbryan]

It's not the same stuff. Premium UDT is a conventional base low-viscosity hydraulic oil made by Shell Canada for Kubota. The specs are more like ATF than hydraulic oil. Gravity degree is 29.3, pour point is claimed -57°C and viscosity @100°C is 7.1 cSt.

SUDT2 is a synthetic or perhaps semi-syn fluid made for Kubota by Valvoline. Gravity degree is 34.5, pour point is -42°C and viscosity @100°C is 8.1 cSt.

Ok, this is new information to me. Premium UDT is the fluid our CA Kubota dealerships use for these tractors. So it's what we buy instead of SUDT-2.

Now I'm curious where you came up with the specs and manufacturers for these 2 oils. I've looked around a fair bit and there's precious little to no info available.

 

[DustyRusty]

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[hagrid]

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[torch]

Now I'm curious where you came up with the specs and manufacturers for these 2 oils. I've looked around a fair bit and there's precious little to no info available.

MSDS. Here is the one for SUDT2, straight off Kubota USA' s website.

The one for the Canadian Premium UDT was harder to track down, but here it is.

 

[torch]

I should add that the MSDS do not tell the whole story. Maybe both SUDT2 and Premium UDT contain some magic additive proprietary to Kubota -- call it hexa-flufoline -- that is absolutely vital to the longevity of a Kubota transmission. I doubt it, but it's possible.

What the MSDS do tell us is that the two products are different in some ways. And that Kubota does not manufacture their branded fluids. It also implies that the regional arms of Kubota contract the manufacture of Kubota fluids independently, and that therefore, the "factory fill" may not be the same as the fluid available to the dealer and consumer in the region where the tractor is eventually sold.

Now, it would appear on the surface that the fluid sold in Canada is engineered for a colder climate than the fluid sold in the US. Would Kubota owners in Alaska, who might use their tractors primarily for blowing snow, be better off buying Premium UDT from Canada? Or would farmers in Southern Ontario, bringing in the hay during +30° August heat waves benefit from a source of US SUDT2? Or does it mean any quality, brand name hydrostatic transmission fluid like PetroCan's DuratranXL or John Deere Hyguard is good enough -- despite the lack of hexaflufoline?

I don't know. All I know is my archaic B7100, produced long before the magic fluids hit the market, has been happily putting away on Amsoil fluid for many years and the transmission hasn't seized up yet.

 

[GeoHorn]

It's not the same stuff. Premium UDT is a conventional base low-viscosity hydraulic oil made by Shell Canada for Kubota. The specs are more like ATF than hydraulic oil. Gravity degree is 29.3, pour point is claimed -57°C and viscosity @100°C is 7.1 cSt.

SUDT2 is a synthetic or perhaps semi-syn fluid made for Kubota by Valvoline. Gravity degree is 34.5, pour point is -42°C and viscosity @100°C is 8.1 cSt.

Ya gotta wonder..... if the same machine North of the 49th Parallel can use pretty ordinary mineral hydraulic fluid... why does machinery South of the Parallel require magic fluid with astronomical pricing...??

It’s almost enough to make WalMart Universal which claims to meet UDT look as good as its price.

 

[ruger1980]

Ya gotta wonder..... if the same machine North of the 49th Parallel can use pretty ordinary mineral hydraulic fluid... why does machinery South of the Parallel require magic fluid with astronomical pricing...??

It’s almost enough to make WalMart Universal which claims to meet UDT look as good as its price.

What documentation does anyone have that says that any Kubota tractor requires SUDT and no other fluid?

 

[GeoHorn]

What documentation does anyone have that says that any Kubota tractor requires SUDT and no other fluid?

My Kubota Owners Manual Specifies on Pg 44 “Transmission Lubricants- Kubota Super UDT”. No substitute or other specification is mentioned.

 

[Fordtech86]

My Kubota Owners Manual Specifies on Pg 44 “Transmission Lubricants- Kubota Super UDT”. No substitute or other specification is mentioned.

This is not an argument about what fluid to use, but that does not say udt is required.

 

[number two]

I've been buying SUDT2 last year and this year for $89.10/5 gallon.
March spring 20% sale.
At that price,I'm pleased.
I recently helped a former golf course customer/friend find an SUDT2 fluid.
PURUS,I forget the part number but it provides the same performance as SUDT2,but is not Kubota approved.
$75 /5 gal.
He's pleased as well.

 

[Luckystars]

Just paid about $70 for a 2.5 gallon jug. That's about $30 / gallon.
Seems ridiculous.
I have no doubt that my new L3901 NEEDS genuine Kubota super UDT2, and I won't try to save a few bucks and ruin the thing, but I really don't understand why they couldn't engineer the thing to use basic hydraulic oil. Sure, it may not be as efficient, but it's a whole helluva lot more practical, cost effective and user friendly.
Is this a case of engineers pushing technology or just a money grab?
Thoughts?

Has anyone seen or considered this? It looks to meet all specs.

Amazon.com

On a 13 year old tractor that's out of warranty could it hurt?

 

[torch]

I would be very very wary of using anything but a name-brand product sold by an authorized dealer. There have been many documented cases of fraudulent specification claims by dodgy vendors (eg: ordinary hydraulic oil or even mineral oil branded as UDT oil) and even at least one case of counterfeit UDT2 complete with "Kubota' branding on the packaging.

Is SUDT2 any better than other brands of premium UDT oil? I don't know. But I have no doubt that SUDT2 is a premium product and there is ample anecdotal evidence on this forum alone of hydrostatic transmissions running smoother and quieter on SUDT2 compared to regular UDT.

 

[greg86z28]

I would be very very wary of using anything but a name-brand product sold by an authorized dealer. There have been many documented cases of fraudulent specification claims by dodgy vendors (eg: ordinary hydraulic oil or even mineral oil branded as UDT oil) and even at least one case of counterfeit UDT2 complete with "Kubota' branding on the packaging.

Is SUDT2 any better than other brands of premium UDT oil? I don't know. But I have no doubt that SUDT2 is a premium product and there is ample anecdotal evidence on this forum alone of hydrostatic transmissions running smoother and quieter on SUDT2 compared to regular UDT.

x2.

At least for me, my service intervals are infrequent enough (400 hours is every few years) to worry about saving $20 bucks. I'm already going there for the filters, and the piece of mind is worth it.

 

[GeoHorn]

This is not an argument about what fluid to use, but that does not say udt is required.

I have a lot of respect for you Fordtech because I’ve seen/read so many of your posts which are clearly well-thought-out by an experienced mechanic/technician that you clearly are... also that your posts are respectful and considerate. So I am not trying to generate any “argument” with you....

..But how can any other interpretation be made if Kubota is so-specific as to what is to be used and NO other fluid or Mil-spec, or even any other commercial specification is identified by them?

In my area of maintenance if there’s no specification to which another maker can meet or duplicate then a “basis of approval” must be met. In this case, Kubota does not offer any basis of approval for any other fluid.

As an example, for motor oil, they offer a basis in specifying “CC or CD” and a particular range of viscosity.... which we can find many brands of fluids which meet that specification. But the restraint Kubota has displayed with regard to transmission fluid seems pretty clear to me that NO other fluid meets Kubotas’ approval. An example of this is WalMart SuperTech which claims to “meet” the Kubota UDT standard. We have to take WalMarts’ word on that ... because Kubota does not list SuperTech as a replacement. Perhaps WalMart is sufficiently believable to substitute SuperTech for UDT.... but WalMart/SuperTech does NOT claim to meet Kubotas “Super UDT” fluid. Nor does Kubota offer any Mil-Spec which can be relied upon as a substitute.
To me...that means only Super UDT is known to meet the requirement...therefore is “required”.

 

[Fordtech86]

I have a lot of respect for you Fordtech because I’ve seen/read so many of your posts which are clearly well-thought-out by an experienced mechanic/technician that you clearly are... also that your posts are respectful and considerate. So I am not trying to generate any “argument” with you....

..But how can any other interpretation be made if Kubota is so-specific as to what is to be used and NO other fluid or Mil-spec, or even any other commercial specification is identified by them?

In my area of maintenance if there’s no specification to which another maker can meet or duplicate then a “basis of approval” must be met. In this case, Kubota does not offer any basis of approval for any other fluid.

As an example, for motor oil, they offer a basis in specifying “CC or CD” and a particular range of viscosity.... which we can find many brands of fluids which meet that specification. But the restraint Kubota has displayed with regard to transmission fluid seems pretty clear to me that NO other fluid meets Kubotas’ approval. An example of this is WalMart SuperTech which claims to “meet” the Kubota UDT standard. We have to take WalMarts’ word on that ... because Kubota does not list SuperTech as a replacement. Perhaps WalMart is sufficiently believable to substitute SuperTech for UDT.... but WalMart/SuperTech does NOT claim to meet Kubotas “Super UDT” fluid. Nor does Kubota offer any Mil-Spec which can be relied upon as a substitute.
To me...that means only Super UDT is known to meet the requirement...therefore is “required”.

I do not disagree with you at all, and its merely speculation on my part as to why the manual is written as it is. The question was raised as to where is it in writing from Kubota that UDT is “required”.

This is from the L2501 manual for example

Note under the transmission oil, “we highly RECOMMEND sudt 2”, that does not mean we require sudt 2. Owners can choose to use whatever fluid they want and they assume the risks of degraded performance, increased wear, loss of warranty coverage, etc.

That being said I will confess, in my gear drive L3200 I use SUDT 2 in the transmission, Rotella T6 5w40 in the engine, and 75-140 in the front axle.

 

[ruger1980]

What is in your manual are recommendations. Kubota cannot require you use any specific brand of oil. What you use is only supposed to meet the requirements of the OEM recommended fluid.

As Fordtech posted it does not even state it has to be UDT but specifically mentions "standard hydraulic/transmission fluid".


The vast majority of lubricant manufacturers and blenders having a working relationship with the OEM's and can request the requirements of the OEM lube. It is more often shared than not.

My L4310HST has lived on a diet of Mobil 424 before I purchased it. It will now live on Tractor Supply premium for the most part.

I have a lot of respect for you Fordtech because I’ve seen/read so many of your posts which are clearly well-thought-out by an experienced mechanic/technician that you clearly are... also that your posts are respectful and considerate. So I am not trying to generate any “argument” with you....

..But how can any other interpretation be made if Kubota is so-specific as to what is to be used and NO other fluid or Mil-spec, or even any other commercial specification is identified by them?

In my area of maintenance if there’s no specification to which another maker can meet or duplicate then a “basis of approval” must be met. In this case, Kubota does not offer any basis of approval for any other fluid.

As an example, for motor oil, they offer a basis in specifying “CC or CD” and a particular range of viscosity.... which we can find many brands of fluids which meet that specification. But the restraint Kubota has displayed with regard to transmission fluid seems pretty clear to me that NO other fluid meets Kubotas’ approval. An example of this is WalMart SuperTech which claims to “meet” the Kubota UDT standard. We have to take WalMarts’ word on that ... because Kubota does not list SuperTech as a replacement. Perhaps WalMart is sufficiently believable to substitute SuperTech for UDT.... but WalMart/SuperTech does NOT claim to meet Kubotas “Super UDT” fluid. Nor does Kubota offer any Mil-Spec which can be relied upon as a substitute.
To me...that means only Super UDT is known to meet the requirement...therefore is “required”.

 

[tbk5]

I used UDT2 in my L3010 and L3710 when I lived up north. It helped with the cold weather HST whine. I am going generic now that I live in the south--as long as it is listed as meeting the "Kubota UDT spec". I think my warranty may have ended a little while ago....

 

[GeoHorn]

...Kubota cannot require you to use any specific brand of oil. ...
As Fordtech posted it does not even state it has to be UDT but specifically mentions "standard hydraulic/transmission fluid".
...

Ruger I agree that Kubota cannot ”require” you to use any specific brand of oil. But Kubota does not have to repair any damage some other brand of oil can be shown to cause. If Kubota-branded oil causes a problem then Kubota has to cover that.

Fordtech, ... the L2501 excerpt you posted actually states in a footnote: “Regular UDT is also permitted for use in this machine”.

That pretty-well clarifies that either Super OR regular UDT must be used. ... Don’t you agree?