Some of you may remember my Post about my B2601 breaking in half!

[North Idaho Wolfman]

The foaming happens whenever it runs if you have an issue, it will happen over and over again.
It goes away while it sits, and then it will come back when you run it.

All of this info is based on if you have a hydraulic issue, don't know if this is what's going on with your tractor or not.

 

[Egressman]

The foaming happens whenever it runs if you have an issue, it will happen over and over again.
It goes away while it sits, and then it will come back when you run it.

All of this info is based on if you have a hydraulic issue, don't know if this is what's going on with your tractor or not.

I understand, I have a bore scope, won't I be able to see it in the sump area below the fill port? I know the hyd fluid won't produce power if it's filled with air. Same as cavitation on a boat!

 

[GeoHorn]

I would just like to say…. Wolfman is the Worlds Greatest Forums Moderator! …. to have stayed with the OP thru all this. The OP displayed anger and threw insults at those who would try to help him despite his own mis-directed information-links…. but NIW displayed true devotion to Kubota Tractor Owners.
GOLD STARS TO THE WOLFMAN! (and a doubling of his moderator-paycheck!)

 

[Egressman]

I would just like to say…. Wolfman is the Worlds Greatest Forums Moderator! …. to have stayed with the OP thru all this. The OP displayed anger and threw insults at those who would try to help him despite his own mis-directed information-links…. but NIW displayed true devotion to Kubota Tractor Owners.
GOLD STARS TO THE WOLFMAN! (and a doubling of his moderator-paycheck!)

Thats nice of you to come on my thread and stroke Wolfmans ego, I'm sure he doesn't need that. I guess you have never been is a maintenance meeting when there are more then one opinions on how to proceed! Wolfman was who I was looking to weigh in on my issue. I knew he would know what direction to go!

The "misdirected link comment) was from someone who obviously didn't read the entire post and you have confuse anger and frustration and not understanding.

I'm not sure who was insulted here, but thinking I'm using a duel brake pedal as a clutch is pretty insulting considering I am not a tractor mechanic and I took a fairly new tractor that was broke in half and put $2000 worth of parts, sever hours of labor, extensive study, no special tools, and not any outside help I feel that comment was an insult!

I do thank Woleman for staying with the cause, heated debate is how the worlds problems are solved. People do sometimes get their feelings hurt, it's called life.

But I have very thick skin after serving 24 years in the military.

 

[ACDII]

The only commonality between the 3ph and the HST is the fluid. They both suck fluid from the HST sump, and both dump fluid back in, but that is where it ends.

The 3PH is a red herring in all this because the HST is powered by it's own pump. Going back to the original post, no or very low power but loud whines, Correct? Did it whine as you pressed the go, or was the whine constant?


Have you jacked up the rear, locked a wheel and tried moving the wheel by hand? Maybe there is binding in the gear train, maybe whatever is causing your 3PH valve to crack is also causing this issue. Does the engine bog when you press go immediately or not at all?

I pulled up the shop manual. So based on the diagram of the HST pump, there are two circuits in it. When in neutral, the motor that connects to the HST is not being fed fluid. When in forward or reverse it is, so if there was binding at the HST input from the motor, it would hit the relief valves immediately. Since it is not, and you hear the reliefs engage when you press to move, then it sounds like there is binding happening in the gear case itself.

The PTO is directly connected to the engine via a hydraulic/electric clutch, and not part of the hydraulic circuit, powered via a connection between the engine and pump motor assembly. The engine output is connected to the pump via a shaft, no clutches used anymore.

The 3PH and FEL along with any PBY is powered by an auxiliary pump attached to the engine, specifically, it is attached to the fuel camshaft. So for a few pages, there was unneeded back and forth over something totally unrelated.

So what the OP needs to do is get it in the shop, raise both rear wheels, and go from there. More than likely the problem is in the gear case or differential. Might have a shattered gear that let loose when moving those trees, could have been fractured when it rolled over and just gave up the ghost when you put the tractor to it's limits and a piece is wedged in somewhere.

On your 3PH, once you get the HST problem solved, maybe we can address that one in a separate thread.

 

[Henro]

Did you start at the top? Did you jump in in the middle and only address what you think is wrong with the way the post is posted? Isn't smart to start at the beginning so you don't miss important information?

Yes, I started at the first post and have been reading on and off since then...Please do not make unfounded assumptions.

Edit: I just looked back and see you edited the original post yesterday to add a link (I assume). THAT link was not there originally, or I would not have made the comment...

 

[Egressman]

Yes, I started at the first post and have been reading on and off since then...Please do not make unfounded assumptions.

Edit: I just looked back and see you edited the original post yesterday to add a link (I assume). THAT link was not there originally, or I would not have made the comment...

There was a link there, Wolfman changed it, not sure why.

 

[Henro]

There was a like there, Wolfman changed it, not sure why.

Things happen. Sorry for the confusion...

 

[Egressman]

The only commonality between the 3ph and the HST is the fluid. They both suck fluid from the HST sump, and both dump fluid back in, but that is where it ends.

The 3PH is a red herring in all this because the HST is powered by it's own pump. Going back to the original post, no or very low power but loud whines, Correct? Did it whine as you pressed the go, or was the whine constant?


Have you jacked up the rear, locked a wheel and tried moving the wheel by hand? Maybe there is binding in the gear train, maybe whatever is causing your 3PH valve to crack is also causing this issue. Does the engine bog when you press go immediately or not at all?

I pulled up the shop manual. So based on the diagram of the HST pump, there are two circuits in it. When in neutral, the motor that connects to the HST is not being fed fluid. When in forward or reverse it is, so if there was binding at the HST input from the motor, it would hit the relief valves immediately. Since it is not, and you hear the reliefs engage when you press to move, then it sounds like there is binding happening in the gear case itself.

The PTO is directly connected to the engine via a hydraulic/electric clutch, and not part of the hydraulic circuit, powered via a connection between the engine and pump motor assembly. The engine output is connected to the pump via a shaft, no clutches used anymore.

The 3PH and FEL along with any PBY is powered by an auxiliary pump attached to the engine, specifically, it is attached to the fuel camshaft. So for a few pages, there was unneeded back and forth over something totally unrelated.

So what the OP needs to do is get it in the shop, raise both rear wheels, and go from there. More than likely the problem is in the gear case or differential. Might have a shattered gear that let loose when moving those trees, could have been fractured when it rolled over and just gave up the ghost when you put the tractor to it's limits and a piece is wedged in somewhere.

On your 3PH, once you get the HST problem solved, maybe we can address that one in a separate thread.

Just as Wolfman suggested, I fired it up, ran the PTO, both rear and mid operate fine. The shaft that runs to the front axle is spinning also. I was able to roll the bucket under and lift the front end off the ground. I have one front wheel off waiting to get the bead redone. So I didn't drive it, however, I was able to slide the front end under power on the flat side of the bucket 2 feet fwd and 2 feet aft.

I still got a whine and the system was very slow and sluggish.

The tractors drive train is intact, the PTO clutch and drive train are working as they should.

I know what caused the 3pt Hyd control valet to break and i have fixed that. I just need to install the new Hyd Control Valve.

a: shows the broken control valve
b: shows control valve removed from the tractor
c: shows case opened up
d: also the case opened up
e: shows the valve fix
f: shows valve and recovered o ring
g: shows valve installed after repair
h: shows the relief I ground into the 3pt piston rod to clear the Hyd control valve
k: shows case back together

 

[Egressman]

Things happen. Sorry for the confusion...

No worries, sorry I was an ass! it happens from time to time, VA doc is working on it! Lol

 

[Egressman]

Just as Wolfman suggested, I fired it up, ran the PTO, both rear and mid operate fine. The shaft that runs to the front axle is spinning also. I was able to roll the bucket under and lift the front end off the ground. I have one front wheel off waiting to get the bead redone. So I didn't drive it, however, I was able to slide the front end under power on the flat side of the bucket 2 feet fwd and 2 feet aft.

I still got a whine and the system was very slow and sluggish.

The tractor's drive train is intact, the PTO clutch and drive train are working as they should.

I know what caused the 3pt Hyd control valet to break and i have fixed that. I just need to install the new Hyd Control Valve.

a: shows the broken control valve
b: shows control valve removed from the tractor
c: shows case opened up
d: also the case opened up
e: shows the valve fix
f: shows valve and recovered o ring
g: shows valve installed after repair
h: shows the relief I ground into the 3pt piston rod to clear the Hyd control valve
k: shows case back together

Bad Day: you can figure this out yourself, wrecker guy was impressed it stay connected to the trailer.lol

Vid: shows the relief clearance between the piston rod and valve. it also shows the side to side movement of the piston rod on the 3pt upper arms shaft

Just as Wolfman suggested, I fired it up, ran the PTO, both rear and mid operate fine. The shaft that runs to the front axle is spinning also. I was able to roll the bucket under and lift the front end off the ground. I have one front wheel off waiting to get the bead redone. So I didn't drive it, however, I was able to slide the front end under power on the flat side of the bucket 2 feet fwd and 2 feet aft.

I still got a whine and the system was very slow and sluggish.

The tractor's drive train is intact, the PTO clutch and drive train are working as they should.

I know what caused the 3pt Hyd control valet to break and i have fixed that. I just need to install the new Hyd Control Valve.

a: shows the broken control valve
b: shows control valve removed from the tractor
c: shows case opened up
d: also the case opened up
e: shows the valve fix
f: shows valve and recovered o ring
g: shows valve installed after repair
h: shows the relief I ground into the 3pt piston rod to clear the Hyd control valve
k: shows case back together

Bad Day: you can figure this out yourself, wrecker guy was impressed it stay connected to the trailer.lol

Before anyone asks, Why didn't I fix the upper control shaft side to side movement? Because I didn't, I chose to grind the relief on the Piston rod instead! It can never hit the valve again!

 

[GeoHorn]

Thats nice of you to come on my thread and stroke Wolfmans ego, I'm sure he doesn't need that. I guess you have never been is a maintenance meeting when there are more then one opinions on how to proceed! …..

But I have very thick skin after serving 24 years in the military.

It’s not “YOUR Post”… when you post something on the internet it becomes Public Domain!
and..since my comment was directed to Wolfman…it had little to do with YOU except as to how he overlooked your rudeness to others and your incomprehensible explanations and overcame his decision to “egress” from the conversation …and Persevered in his generosity toward you (and all of us)….so he DESERVES recognition ..despite your obvious selfishness.

You skin apparently isn’t thick at all… but your skull might be. Try being more polite to those from whom you seek help.

 

[fried1765]

It’s not “YOUR Post”… when you post something on the internet it becomes Public Domain!
and..since my comment was directed to Wolfman…it had little to do with YOU except as to how he overlooked your rudeness to others and your incomprehensible explanations and overcame his decision to “egress” from the conversation …and Persevered in his generosity toward you (and all of us)….so he DESERVES recognition ..despite your obvious selfishness.

You skin apparently isn’t thick at all… but your skull might be. Try being more polite to those from whom you seek help.

Easy there boys........While I generally do not agree with locking threads, this one just might be due for a lock!

 

[ACDII]

Just as Wolfman suggested, I fired it up, ran the PTO, both rear and mid operate fine. The shaft that runs to the front axle is spinning also. I was able to roll the bucket under and lift the front end off the ground. I have one front wheel off waiting to get the bead redone. So I didn't drive it, however, I was able to slide the front end under power on the flat side of the bucket 2 feet fwd and 2 feet aft.

I still got a whine and the system was very slow and sluggish.

The tractors drive train is intact, the PTO clutch and drive train are working as they should.

Since the HST is driven directly by the pump, It sounds like you either need to rebuild, or replace the HST pump.

 

[Egressman]

Since the HST is driven directly by the pump, It sounds like you either need to rebuild, or replace the HST pump.

Thanks, Do they make a rebuild kit or do I just replace all the seals, inspect the rest?

 

[Egressman]

Easy there boys........While I generally do not agree with locking threads, this one just might be due for a lock!

Things happen. Sorry for the confusion...

No worries, I'm not sure what the problem was with the link I had there, it may have not taken you to my original post from years back, I believe that's what Wolfman fixed. Grateful for the help.

 

[Egressman]

16 Feb: Fixed the bead on my tire, installed, limped the tractor around, and was able to get her in the shop.

Noticed it ran better at low rpm. The bucket was slow but operated in all directions, steering was super hard.

 

[ACDII]

Thanks, Do they make a rebuild kit or do I just replace all the seals, inspect the rest?

Check with Messiks on this, they usually respond well to emails. Do you have the workshop manual?

 

[Egressman]

Check with Messiks on this, they usually respond well to emails. Do you have the workshop manual?

Yes, I do, I Love Messicks, that's where I get my parts from. Could part of this be buying cheap Hyd Fluid?

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Could part of this be buying cheap Hyd Fluid?

Yes most definitely!
Exactly what fluid do you have in it?
Everything you state points to bad fluid / filters.
I highly doubt you need to rebuild or reseal the HST unit.
If it was just the HST that was giving you problems then I could see it, but you have multiple hydraulic system issues.

If you want to stay with an economical Fluid that works, I've been running Mystik JT-5 in everything I have and have never had a fluid related issue.

https://www.mystiklubes.com/Product.do?code=663509002&category=TRANS_POWER_FLUID