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Porcupine

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D2cat,

That ONE article you referenced may have been in error, but there seems to be a great number of different articles, naming different hospitals and health systems, that do report them being stressed, both with physical facilities running out of space and staff exhaustion.

Do not think it is logical to use one erroneous article to disprove a number of other reports which are independent of that one article.
Problem is, it was not “erroneous” it was a complete fabrication, a deliberate lie. It’s one of MANY lies told and repeated.

There have been so many lies that it’s nearly impossible to not recognize a pattern of deceit.
 

Tornado

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Thanks Tornado, discouraging. Seems like only thing we (the tax paying public that contribute to Medicare and receive it) could do is lobby for change. With my local elected reps that’s like spitting in the wind, but doing nothing is not a good thing either. The money making companies would and do kill patients to solve the problem If it weren’t for Regs and inspections.Latest scandal I read about is over medicating patients because they don’t have the staff to care for them, so dope them up so they can’t move until they get gangrenous bedsores and die.

Sheepfarmer, its funny you mention that article about the over medicating dementia patients. I just read that same article this morning. I forwarded it to my wife as well in case she misses it because she will enjoy reading that. The article was very good and does highlight a problem. The only downside is that it misses some aspects to that problem I wish they could share, but that would require nurses at those nursing homes being able to speak freely. It would not alleviate the blame or the problem, but it would help give some context to what the nurses are often dealing with in these nursing homes. Also I agree with you on the regulations. There is so much going on in the care of others that regulation has to be pretty tight. My wife would also agree. She does see these inspectors as necessary evils. It makes her life hell, and often feels nit picking, but she understands the necessity of it all - despite its frustration.

As the article stated, and as I have laid out here, many of these facilities are chronically understaffed. Many of these facilities are also ill equipped to care for patients with severe dementia. My wife has had some severe dementia patients, and other mentally ill patients in her facility, and they are so so hard to care for. By law they can not restrain them, so often these patients roam around and just cause total havoc in the building. Some of the things my wife has seen in these patients: Assault nurses and other staff, curse out people and use racial slurs, throw stuff all over the place, smear feces all over the walls, throw feces at nurses or out into the halls, pee on stuff, try to run around naked, refuse medication, pull any health devices or monitors on them off, refuse to eat or throw their food all over the room, the list goes on and on and on. Often times these patients tend to fall a lot, or hurt themselves in other ways with all the crazy antics. One of the many things that is monitored and can ding a nursing facility is falls. They are counted and one of the many parameters that are monitored. If one patient is constantly falling or hurting themselves it can quickly become a problem for the facility. You cant restrain them, you cant sit over them and babysit them, but you cant let them continue to fall or hurt themselves. What do you do? It is a tough balancing act. My wife has had nurses walk off the job over specific patients treatment toward them. CNA's in particular bear the brunt of this, and are paid little more than fast food workers. If you are cursed out every morning, hit, have feces thrown at you, have a grown angry old man hitting you, or in some cases trying to grope you and being sexual toward you, and you have to deal with it every morning, how long do you work there? Eventually these worst patients become the bane of the staff. No one wants to have them on their rounds. They dread having to go into their room. While I do not condone what this article highlights I can see how it would be easy for some to want to just sedate them. This is another one of the things that covid has made worse in nursing homes as well. With family not allowed to visit, some of these worst case patients have gotten even worse. Some have even become suicidal with the lack of being able to see family.

The article also briefly touched on a very important as well. That nursing homes have increasingly become a "dumping ground" for a lot of really tough patients with no where else to go. Patients who have no real family, are very ill, have no money, etc. end up in one of these facilities. You can often have some very mentally ill people in nursing homes being treated by a nursing staff who has NO experience in psych patients at all. Sometimes the nursing home has no say in the admission either, it is done from a central intake office further up the corporate chain or something. Another issue, but slightly off topic of this issue is the admission of high acuity patients to nursing homes, meaning ones who are simply very sick, or have bad wounds that need constant care and close attention. Here again you often have nurses who have never worked ICU or dealt with a high acuity patient. You can have all the education you want in nursing, experience is king. Having multiple years of ICU experience looks really good on a resume for a nurse.

As with most problems of this size, there are a LOT of angles to it. The article sort of leaves the impression that the nursing homes are just being careless to these patients. In some cases they may very well be. There are some bad facilities out there, no doubt about it. A lot of bad facilities though end up giving in I think to jus the poor, unmanageable mess as I've highlighted in my post here. It often feels like the whole system is so broken, so it can be easy to want to just throw your hands up and say "Screw it, no one cares, so why should I care " It is very disheartening. But caring for lots of old / sick people requires a LOT of money, time, resources, and attention. Money doesn't grow on trees, and these companies want to make profits, so this is the mess we have. It will never be perfect. Caring for sick and/or old people with huge lists of problems will always have big challenges, even to a facility with endless money at their disposal it would be a challenge. It is a big job what these nurses are tasked with. The work load, the level of responsibility, the demand for accuracy and critical thinking skills means that we as humans are going to falter, even in the best environment. It is true too that there are a lot of poor nurses out there. There are a lot of nurses who simply don't have strong critical thinking skills. You have some nurses just in it for the paycheck and don't care. You also have some brilliant nurses, who can school many doctors in the patients they look after, who are true patient advocates, who actually care and care deeply. Unfortunately those good nurses are the ones who get dumped on the hardest. If you are one of the few who actually care, then you end up doing a lot of the work of those who don't care, so you just burn out even faster.
 
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Jchonline

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I’d suggest to you that the nurses and the system in general are dealing more with the consequences of our wildly inappropriate response to CoViD than CoViD. There really is no medical reason for the upheaval.
How do you think the nurses are being affected by the response to COVID?
 

Porcupine

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How do you think the nurses are being affected by the response to COVID?
Well….Staffing issues, quarantines, poorly designed/inappropriate protocols, increases in reporting workload, reduction in the size of the work force for starters.

That is in addition to the greater consequences to society over all, as they’re having to deal with that too.

I don’t know all that many nurses, but I know 3 that have quit rather than take the vaccine, and another that is about to. Could be a fluke created by a small sample (4/8 quitting) or it could be an indication of a real problem.

The hilarious thing is It’ll be reported not as ”Vaccine ultimatum further exacerbates critical health care personnel shortages.” but more likely “Hospitals are overwhelmed due to CoViD.” or “Unvaccinated causing critical shortage of health care workers.”

You know, the typical “technically true” but intentionally deceitful narrative we get from the PTB.
 

Tornado

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Well….Staffing issues, quarantines, poorly designed/inappropriate protocols, increases in reporting workload, reduction in the size of the work force for starters.

That is in addition to the greater consequences to society over all, as they’re having to deal with that too.

I don’t know all that many nurses, but I know 3 that have quit rather than take the vaccine, and another that is about to. Could be a fluke created by a small sample (4/8 quitting) or it could be an indication of a real problem.

The hilarious thing is It’ll be reported not as ”Vaccine ultimatum further exacerbates critical health care personnel shortages.” but more likely “Hospitals are overwhelmed due to CoViD.” or “Unvaccinated causing critical shortage of health care workers.”

You know, the typical “technically true” but intentionally deceitful narrative we get from the PTB.
I spoke previously about the whole mandate causing nurses to quit. It is going to be a lot of nurses. It is not isolated.

This also just broke recently, further highlighting the issue:

 
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sheepfarmer

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Looks like when the lefty “Atlantic” is going wobbly on “CoViD hospitalizations”.

It would seem to be a little more nuanced than that. They make a really good case for knowing how the data was gathered and defined.
 

NHSleddog

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It would seem to be a little more nuanced than that. They make a really good case for knowing how the data was gathered and defined.
There was nothing "nuanced" about it.

They were pointing out in the article how the numbers we have been hearing are not accurate.

They have been doing this from the start. My father was admitted last year as a covid patient with a broken hip. He never had Covid and he never tested positive for covid, however he was a hospital admission/stay listed as covid. He was also put on the covid floor. Almost like they have been trying to inflate the cases.

It seems a lot of people actually prefer to be misled.

We know for a fact that the 650,000 US covid deaths are not accurate, but people keep parroting it as fact perpetuating the bad data. When will all the non-covid deaths be taken out of that number? And why have they not been taken out yet?
 
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Porcupine

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There was nothing "nuanced" about it.

They were pointing out in the article how the numbers we have been hearing are not accurate.

They have been doing this from the start. My father was admitted last year as a covid patient with a broken hip. He never had Covid and he never tested positive for covid, however he was a hospital admission/stay listed as covid. He was also put on the covid floor. Almost like they have been trying to inflate the cases.

It seems a lot of people actually prefer to be misled.

We know for a fact that the 650,000 US covid deaths are not accurate, but people keep parroting it as fact perpetuating the bad data. When will all the non-covid deaths be taken out of that number? And why have they not been taken out yet?
Hmmmm-Good question.

One might even begin to believe it’s not really all that much about public health.
 
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D2Cat

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Go to about the 4:20 mark in the video and see/hear what Bill Gates says about how this will be handled.

 

D2Cat

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How much of this political posturing (not telling the truth) do we have to put up with?

 
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Steppenwolfe

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Very simple... don't get vaccinated and take your chances... If you get covid and need assistance, too bad, so sad... Live your decision... or die by it.
 
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Porcupine

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Very simple... don't get vaccinated and take your chances... If you get covid and need assistance, too bad, so sad... Live your decision... or die by it.
This is fun, let’s make a list!

Don’t get fat, don’t get diabetes, don’t drink alcohol, don’t smoke cigarettes, don’t get high blood pressure, don’t smoke pot, don’t use opiates, don’t ride motorcycles, don’t use a tractor unless you’re a paid professional, don’t skydive, don’t scuba dive, don’t swim, don’t boat, don’t roller skate, don’t skate board……. What else shall we refuse to cover if you do or don’t? I’m sure I’ve missed many things.
 

jimh406

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Not a big fan of Howard Stern, but he pretty much sums up my feelings on the unvaccinated.
As Joe Rogan said, he got Ivermectin and other “cures” from his Dr. So, I guess you and Stern don’t trust Drs.

Btw, as he says, the people who say he took Horse medicine don’t talk about how he got well just fine. I guess you won’t either. ;)
 

Porcupine

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Fordtech86

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Very simple... don't get vaccinated and take your chances... If you get covid and need assistance, too bad, so sad... Live your decision... or die by it.
What if you are forced to get the shot, as well as everyone in contact with you, and you still get covid and die? Do you at least get a participation trophy?

And yes I carried the coffin of that example last week.
 
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Henro

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This is fun, let’s make a list!

Don’t get fat, don’t get diabetes, don’t drink alcohol, don’t smoke cigarettes, don’t get high blood pressure, don’t smoke pot, don’t use opiates……. What else shall we refuse to cover if you do or don’t? I’m sure I’ve missed many things.
The main thing you missed is Steppenwolf’s point.

Nearly everything you listed is to some degree under an individual’s control. And the individual in most (but not all) cases is the one who suffers from his actions.

However, smoking does affect others when they breathe in secondary smoke. And actions one may take while impaired by drugs and/or alcohol can affect others and society does have penalties for abuse. But that is a different animal to a great degree.

What in Steppenwolf’‘s comment (copied below) motivates one to make a list of dangerous things that people may do? What he stated seems pretty straightforward.

Very simple... don't get vaccinated and take your chances... If you get covid and need assistance, too bad, so sad... Live your decision... or die by it.

In all fairness though, even if vaccinated one still takes his chances. Vaccinated people get sick and die too. Just seems like a lot less of them do, relative to the number who are unvaccinated.
 

jimh406

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Vaccinated people get sick and die too. Just seems like a lot less of them do, relative to the number who are unvaccinated.
We actually don’t know. Just view the videos of the same people who said don’t get vaccinated a year ago who are now saying you have to or you are killing people.

To be clear, this is still more politics than science.
 
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