L4150 Repair Restore

[North Idaho Wolfman]

@North Idaho Wolfman I got all the seals we talked about except Im having trouble sourcing the collar seal "020" (Kubota #35350-43220). I talked to Messicks and the local dealer, and no one is showing it as available. I'm not sure how that interacts with oil seal 070, and if I'd be ok not changing that for now. Curious what your thoughts are on it? Thanks.

I looked to see if there were any cross numbers and there is not.
These older parts just seem to get harder and harder to find!
Call Coleman's tomorrow, as they sometime have alternate sources of some of these parts.
You might get lucky as sometimes the collars don't get much wear or if the wear is offset flip it around for a new surface for the seal to ride on.

Well crud, Look at this, sold just moments ago for stupid cheap too!

 

[CiscoRanger]

I looked to see if there were any cross numbers and there is not.
These older parts just seem to get harder and harder to find!
Call Coleman's tomorrow, as they sometime have alternate sources of some of these parts.
You might get lucky as sometimes the collars don't get much wear or if the wear is offset flip it around for a new surface for the seal to ride on.

Well crud, Look at this, sold just moments ago for stupid cheap too!
View attachment 100681

Lol. I just bought that right after fried sent his message about Coleman’s. $12. Didn’t see it Monday when I placed my other order. Hopefully it’s not all dried out. I’ll still call Coleman’s tomorrow to see what they say. Thanks much!

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Lol. I just bought that right after fried sent his message about Coleman’s. $12. Didn’t see it Monday when I placed my other order. Hopefully it’s not all dried out. I’ll still call Coleman’s tomorrow to see what they say. Thanks much!

Well excellent!
I'm sure it will be fine.

 

[CiscoRanger]

Well excellent!
I'm sure it will be fine.

So the last of the 4x4 seal parts gets here today, including a new thrust washer for the axle support. Got a question for @North Idaho Wolfman et al.

I'm typically a complete DIY guy, and I hate taking things to have someone else work on it, with a few exceptions, like automatic Transmission rebuilds. But this particular repair has me wondering if I should do it myself, or have Kubota do it for a few reasons...

1. I dont have any specific Tractor support jacks. I do have (2) 3000# automotive jack stands, and a couple 2500# welder pipe jack stands, but nothing specific for safely supporting the tractor.

2. The tractor has to be lifted off the front axle mounting studs, then the front axle removed repaired and then the tractor is lowered back onto the axle/axle support. With the foam filled tires, I am wondering how hard it will be to line that back up to the studs.

3. I've changed gears before in an offroad vehicle (3.55s to 4.88s front and rear in a old explorer) so I get the shim and backlash concepts, but I've only done it once on a vehicle that if it cratered wasnt gonna matter. If I have to pull the differential apart, my confidence level on getting that back together properly is not as stong as I would like it to be.

4. I dont have a press or internal calipers big enough to check the axle support bushing, press it out, and press in a new one if needed to change out the thrust washer.

Kubota quoted me ~400 in labor with my Kubota parts to pull and replace the seals and bushings and such.

I guess my question is: Should I try to do this myself, given the above, and I'm just over thinking it? Or is it one to consider leaving to the people with the right tools and know-how?

Thanks.

 

[TheOldHokie]

So the last of the 4x4 seal parts gets here today, including a new thrust washer for the axle support. Got a question for @North Idaho Wolfman et al.

I'm typically a complete DIY guy, and I hate taking things to have someone else work on it, with a few exceptions, like automatic Transmission rebuilds. But this particular repair has me wondering if I should do it myself, or have Kubota do it for a few reasons...

1. I dont have any specific Tractor support jacks. I do have (2) 3000# automotive jack stands, and a couple 2500# welder pipe jack stands, but nothing specific for safely supporting the tractor.

2. The tractor has to be lifted off the front axle mounting studs, then the front axle removed repaired and then the tractor is lowered back onto the axle/axle support. With the foam filled tires, I am wondering how hard it will be to line that back up to the studs.

3. I've changed gears before in an offroad vehicle (3.55s to 4.88s front and rear in a old explorer) so I get the shim and backlash concepts, but I've only done it once on a vehicle that if it cratered wasnt gonna matter. If I have to pull the differential apart, my confidence level on getting that back together properly is not as stong as I would like it to be.

4. I dont have a press or internal calipers big enough to check the axle support bushing, press it out, and press in a new one if needed to change out the thrust washer.

Kubota quoted me ~400 in labor with my Kubota parts to pull and replace the seals and bushings and such.

I guess my question is: Should I try to do this myself, given the above, and I'm just over thinking it? Or is it one to consider leaving to the people with the right tools and know-how?

Thanks.

Not NIW but...

I have all of the tools, a big shop with all of the lifting equipment and for $400 I would not even think about doing it myself.

Dan

 

[CiscoRanger]

Not NIW but...

I have all of the tools, a big shop with all of the lifting equipment and for $400 I would not even think about doing it myself.

Dan

You are one of the folks I always hope to get feedback from. Thanks Dan.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

So the last of the 4x4 seal parts gets here today, including a new thrust washer for the axle support. Got a question for @North Idaho Wolfman et al.

I'm typically a complete DIY guy, and I hate taking things to have someone else work on it, with a few exceptions, like automatic Transmission rebuilds. But this particular repair has me wondering if I should do it myself, or have Kubota do it for a few reasons...

1. I dont have any specific Tractor support jacks. I do have (2) 3000# automotive jack stands, and a couple 2500# welder pipe jack stands, but nothing specific for safely supporting the tractor.

2. The tractor has to be lifted off the front axle mounting studs, then the front axle removed repaired and then the tractor is lowered back onto the axle/axle support. With the foam filled tires, I am wondering how hard it will be to line that back up to the studs.

3. I've changed gears before in an offroad vehicle (3.55s to 4.88s front and rear in a old explorer) so I get the shim and backlash concepts, but I've only done it once on a vehicle that if it cratered wasnt gonna matter. If I have to pull the differential apart, my confidence level on getting that back together properly is not as stong as I would like it to be.

4. I dont have a press or internal calipers big enough to check the axle support bushing, press it out, and press in a new one if needed to change out the thrust washer.

Kubota quoted me ~400 in labor with my Kubota parts to pull and replace the seals and bushings and such.

I guess my question is: Should I try to do this myself, given the above, and I'm just over thinking it? Or is it one to consider leaving to the people with the right tools and know-how?

Thanks.

This is a 50/50 only because I know if I do it it's completely done.
Seen too many dealer mechanics that do 1/2 the job.
And sadly too many of the dealer mechanics don't have any experience working on older tractors.
But $400 is a really good price to get that done and yes lifting it and supporting it can be a little tricky.

I lift the front off the ground and put dollies under the wheels, strap the tires to the dollies, disconnect the steering then drop the supports, this allows you to be able to roll the whole axle out side ways leaving the front of the tractor supported by the frame and the jack, and a normal set of jack stands or wood cribbing work fine at holding it up.
Then it's easy to work on out in the open.

 

[CiscoRanger]

This is a 50/50 only because I know if I do it it's completely done.
Seen too many dealer mechanics that do 1/2 the job.
And sadly too many of the dealer mechanics don't have any experience working on older tractors.
But $400 is a really good price to get that done and yes lifting it and supporting it can be a little tricky.

I lift the front off the ground and put dollies under the wheels, strap the tires to the dollies, disconnect the steering then drop the supports, this allows you to be able to roll the whole axle out side ways leaving the front of the tractor supported by the frame and the jack, and a normal set of jack stands or wood cribbing work fine at holding it up.
Then it's easy to work on out in the open.

Thank you. You brought up the other side of my dilemma too, which I forgot to mention - The mechanics not doing it right. I've had a couple of bad experiences with my bobcat T770 where controls were not hooked back up, the intake heater was not hooked back up, a primer bulb left off, etc. So I totally feel you on knowing it is done correctly.

Maybe there is a halfway on this: I pull the axle and if all goes wonderfully then good. If not and I have to have things pressed out, or the diff has to come apart, I can load just the front axle up with the bobcat and take it in to have it done.

I'm also thinking that there will be additional charges for fluid, instead of capturing my new hydraulic fluid, or using the 80w90 I bought for the axle refill.

Thanks for the input, guys. I'll over-analyze this a bit more and decide.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Thank you. You brought up the other side of my dilemma too, which I forgot to mention - The mechanics not doing it right. I've had a couple of bad experiences with my bobcat T770 where controls were not hooked back up, the intake heater was not hooked back up, a primer bulb left off, etc. So I totally feel you on knowing it is done correctly.

Maybe there is a halfway on this: I pull the axle and if all goes wonderfully then good. If not and I have to have things pressed out, or the diff has to come apart, I can load just the front axle up with the bobcat and take it in to have it done.

I'm also thinking that there will be additional charges for fluid, instead of capturing my new hydraulic fluid, or using the 80w90 I bought for the axle refill.

Thanks for the input, guys. I'll over-analyze this a bit more and decide.

One more thing to add: None of those parts are pressed in, they are all tolerance fit parts, and I can't see you having to change any of the hard adjustments like shims and such as your not changing gear sets.

 

[CiscoRanger]

One more thing to add: None of those parts are pressed in, they are all tolerance fit parts, and I can't see you having to change any of the hard adjustments like shims and such as your not changing gear sets.

Oh thats huge. On the vehicle diff I did, the leading pinion bearing was pressed on to the pinion shaft with the shims between. It was a PITA and was one of the concerns. I think the axle support bushing is pressed in based on the WSM - But theres a possiblity this wont need replacing. If thats the only pressed in part, we may be in better shape.

The second concern was re-torquing the pinion nut - doing it according to the WSM means I need to pull the axles and wheel hubs to get the diff apart and then use a spring balance. Is there is a "good enough" torque for doing this with the wheels on, without pulling everything apart?

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Yes that part is pressed, you'll know right away when you lift the weight off the front as it will slop around if it's worn too much.
Pull on tire forward and backwards to check for excessive wear.
Easy enough part to have pressed out if you need to replace it.

 

[Nicksacco]

Keep going @CiscoRanger !

We're cheering you on!

 

[CiscoRanger]

Keep going @CiscoRanger !

We're cheering you on!

View attachment 101193

Haha. Thanks Nick!

 

[CiscoRanger]

Well, I pulled the front drive shaft tonight. It seems straight and rolls straight. Couplers and splines were well greased and had no issue.

Also got the tie Rod ends off the hubs. Went to crack the nuts loose on the axle mounts and no-go with the impact or the 2’ Cheater bar. They got a good Kroil bath tonight, will get another one in the morning and and we’ll see what happens tomorrow night.

Worst case I’ll bring up the oxy/acet red wrench to the new shop and give them a hot bath. I thought @Nicksacco was sending me one of those induction bolt melters for Christmas but the package must’ve gotten lost.


Forgot to take pics so here’s a pic of some hot chicks instead.

Have a great night y’all.

 

[Nicksacco]

Nice chicks, man!

Here you go @CiscoRanger !

 

[CiscoRanger]

Hopefully another update coming later today, but I have a quick question. I expect to have to replace the pivot bushings on the front axle supports, as well as the seals. The rear support (on the front axle) parts are straight forward. The front support however has 2 options for bushings and o-rings. The notes say “lt” vs “gt“. Any idea what this means and how I determine which I have? Parts 20 and 30 in the pics below.

Happy Sunday!

 

[PoTreeBoy]

Hopefully another update coming later today, but I have a quick question. I expect to have to replace the pivot bushings on the front axle supports, as well as the seals. The rear support (on the front axle) parts are straight forward. The front support however has 2 options for bushings and o-rings. The notes say “lt” vs “gt“. Any idea what this means and how I determine which I have? Parts 20 and 30 in the pics below.

View attachment 101367


View attachment 101368

Happy Sunday!

Refers to your serial number. lt is less than 60897, gt is greater than 60898. Actually, i think they mean less than or equal to and greater than or equal to.

 

[CiscoRanger]

Refers to your serial number. lt is less than 60897, gt is greater than 60898. Actually, i think they mean less than or equal to and greater than or equal to.

Hey Po! Awesome, thank you! Off to find the serial #.

 

[CiscoRanger]

So I decided to see how much slop was in the front end before deciding to take it to the dealer for seal replacement or pull the axle myself. i threw my wife in the bobcat and she hoisted the front end a few inches and I jiggled the tires back and forth (thanks @North Idaho Wolfman). It was a little more slop than I was hoping for so I decided to pull the axle myself and see what was going on instead of the dealer potentially just slapping the new parts on and sending it home.

My 3 1/2 ton jackstands were a bit too short so I welded a couple of I-beam scraps from the shop frame to give me a little more height.

Once in the air, I had my better half put the forks under the axle with slight up pressure to keep it from coming off while I removed the bolts. I already broken the nuts and bolts loose one at a time before lifting it so it was just a matter of reaching from the side and zipping them out (I don’t like crawling under heavy things…even on jack stands.). Yes that tie rod is bent - running over trees is what the previous owner loved to do.

I pulled the wheels off, and set the axle on some pipe stands for inspection.

First thing I noticed was the excessive wear on the front axle boss. It’s worn far enough to leave a .050-.060 lip on the top.

Also when I pulled the axle support (front) the thrust washer was broken in half. I guess this thing has never been greased in it’s life.

Speaking of, I don’t see a grease zirk on it. I’m guessing the excessive play is why the axle support seal (rear) was so deformed.

Not sure where I go from here yet. I haven’t checked the wsm for tolerances (I think they’re in the .001s tho…not .010s.

im sure there’s a repair for this that involves turning the boss down and making a bigger bushing or something. I’m short a mill and lathe at the moment. I think there’s a few legit machine shops around.

Is this something people still fix? Or do they slap a new bushing in and roll with it?

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

If it were mine, I would want to get it fixed, but the size of the casting would be problematic and expensive.

I don't think the amount of wear is such that it couldn't be safely run like it is for many a year.
just getting rid of the slop because of the failed trust bearing will help tremendously. There isn't supposed to be a hole in the trust collar.

There is a home grown solution, the would be to build up the wear with JB weld using a new sleeve as a form.

As far as the support goes, on the right was early support casting that didn't have a grease zerk and just an O-ring seal, and on the left was the newer support casting with a grease zerk and a lip seal.
I don't see why you couldn't drill and tap a zerk into it if already not equipped.