L295DT loader restore, advice needed, pictures

[joesmith123]

A JIC flsring tool is not low dollar - expect to spend $150 for a decent tool.
This is not like brake lines. You are dealing with heavier wall and larger diameter steel tube. Unless you are planning on doing this in a volume basis VersilFlsre is more cost effective.

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Dan

Youre incredible,

Ok I will look at that link, and study what you are telling me

 

[Jasonized]

In this picture is the exact fitting I will be using, its steel

"Then put in a reducer fitting"

I'm gonna use what you're telling me when I get the chance to work on it again

"rent a rig for off grid"

Yes, but I others have said something about "brazing silver"

Would I be able to do this for this application?

Ahh…. Okay…. Hmm.. first, I don’t have much experience with brazing steel fittings. Copper, brass, yup. Steel… not so much! I always weld. But, if the threads give the support, that would probably work…. Seeping would be a worry, since there is nothing to seal the threads on the inside. You are planning on brazing it all the way around, yes?

a reducing fitting I was thinking of doesn’t have male threads on both sides. It consists of a short plug, with male threads on the outside, and female threads on the inside. You just screw it in, and another fitting screws into it, thus reducing the size.

but looking at what you are trying to screw it into, a reducing fitting is probably not the best, as it would eat away at the part that is already corroded…. So your part will probably be a better choice!

 

[TheOldHokie]

Youre incredible,

Ok I will look at that link, and study what you are telling me

At the risk of sounding like a stuck record (if you are old enough to know what that means) scrap those ratted out cylinders and buy new ones. You will be light years ahead in reliability.

If you are determined to rehabilitate the old ones do it right - grind/cut ALL of that buggered up rusty mess off right down to the hole in the barrel and weld/braze on new pre-made oring ports.

Weld-On Ports, 90 degree: SAE 6, 1.25 Width, 1.25 Height

This 90 degree weld-on port with SAE 6 port is designed for quick field maintenance to get your cylinder up and running. Shop now!

www.baileyhydraulics.com

Weld-On Ports: SAE 6, 0.87 Width, 0.68 Height

This weld-on port with SAE 6 port is designed for quick field maintenance to get your cylinder up and running. Explore today!

www.baileyhydraulics.com

Dan

 

[Jasonized]

At the risk of sounding like a stuck record (if you are old enough to know what that means) scrap those ratted out cylinders and buy new ones. You will be light years ahead in reliability.

If you are determined to rehabilitate the old ones do it right - grind/cut ALL of that buggered up rusty mess off right down to the hole in the barrel and weld/braze on new pre-made oring ports.

Weld-On Ports, 90 degree: SAE 6, 1.25 Width, 1.25 Height

This 90 degree weld-on port with SAE 6 port is designed for quick field maintenance to get your cylinder up and running. Shop now!

www.baileyhydraulics.com

Weld-On Ports: SAE 6, 0.87 Width, 0.68 Height

This weld-on port with SAE 6 port is designed for quick field maintenance to get your cylinder up and running. Explore today!

www.baileyhydraulics.com

Dan

First, I agree. Replacing the cylinders will be the best overall and long term. Even if the OP gets them working, I'm not sure how well they would hold up...

However, it sounds like the OP can't (or doesn't want to) replace them right now (cost, time to get new ones, is enjoying rebuilding them), and will get new ones on down the road. When he gets tired of rebuilding them. Continually. :}

Grinding off those old ones would be the correct approach! When I suggested possibly using reducing fittings to get it down to a common size, I said you'd have to bore the old ones out, tap and then insert a fitting. Then I saw what you were working with, and realized boring out won't work because you probably won't have much metal left!

New weld on fittings look best. And cheap, too! Grind the old ones off (shouldn't take long, there doesn't look like there is much left) and then weld on new ones. If you can't weld in-place (I wouldn't), take them off. Prep the metal and fittings, take it to a friend who does welding.

I (personally) don't think brazing would be strong enough for holding two parts together without a mechanical assistance (threads), but that's just my lack of experience with high(er) pressure systems. I'm sure others will have a better idea about that than I will.

Good luck!

 

[TheOldHokie]

[QUOTE="Jasonized, post: 651362, member: 57521]

I (personally) don't think brazing would be strong enough for holding two parts together without a mechanical assistance (threads), but that's just my lack of experience with high(er) pressure systems. I'm sure others will have a better idea about that than I will.

Good luck!
[/QUOTE]

I concur - those old cylinders are a toal mystery and may well be junk inside. If not now then perhaps after someone learns to weld on them.

In the hydraulics world 1600 PSI is a "low pressure" system. Tensile strength of brazed steel joints is generally 40-70 KSI which if properly executed is more than adequate. Its easier than welding especially on tube and uses less expensive equipment (1100-1600F torch) so many hydraulic shops prefer it.

Dan

 

[Jasonized]

I concur - those old cylinders are a toal mystery and may well be junk inside. If not now then perhaps after someone learns to weld on them.

Yep.. I kept forgetting to ask the OP… Was there hydraulic fluid in them still, when you first removed them? Or were they empty? Have you check to see if they are actually still working, should you get the fittings replaced? If not, you might get all the hoses connect, only to find the internal are rotted out…

All good questions to ask before heroics are done on the exterior!

 

[ferguson]

My 2 cents replumb with hyd hoses & forget the tubing. Spend your time making brackets to support the hoses.

 

[joesmith123]

At the risk of sounding like a stuck record (if you are old enough to know what that means) scrap those ratted out cylinders and buy new ones. You will be light years ahead in reliability.

If you are determined to rehabilitate the old ones do it right - grind/cut ALL of that buggered up rusty mess off right down to the hole in the barrel and weld/braze on new pre-made oring ports.

Weld-On Ports, 90 degree: SAE 6, 1.25 Width, 1.25 Height

This 90 degree weld-on port with SAE 6 port is designed for quick field maintenance to get your cylinder up and running. Shop now!

www.baileyhydraulics.com

Weld-On Ports: SAE 6, 0.87 Width, 0.68 Height

This weld-on port with SAE 6 port is designed for quick field maintenance to get your cylinder up and running. Explore today!

www.baileyhydraulics.com

Dan

Wow yes! those are the exact parts I need, I didnt know that they exist

 

[joesmith123]

I (personally) don't think brazing would be strong enough for holding two parts together without a mechanical assistance (threads), but that's just my lack of experience with high(er) pressure systems. I'm sure others will have a better idea about that than I will.

Good luck!

You are correct

I think others were mentioning brazing was for silver lines

Steel is best for this application, I will figure out how to weld (watch videos etc)

I havent been able to make progress recently, but eventually

 

[joesmith123]

However, it sounds like the OP can't (or doesn't want to) replace them right now (cost, time to get new ones, is enjoying rebuilding them), and will get new ones on down the road. When he gets tired of rebuilding them. Continually. :}

Good luck!

They do make the seals for them to rebuild them

I think I saw them on messick

Its either $500 for new ones, or rebuild them for $40-50 plus my labor

First I try to fix, then replace if it makes sense

 

[joesmith123]

I concur - those old cylinders are a toal mystery and may well be junk inside. If not now then perhaps after someone learns to weld on them.

From what I understand, generally, the seals go bad but they can be replaced with genuine japanese seals

[/QUOTE]

In the hydraulics world 1600 PSI is a "low pressure" system. Tensile strength of brazed steel joints is generally 40-70 KSI which if properly executed is more than adequate. Its easier than welding especially on tube and uses less expensive equipment (1100-1600F torch) so many hydraulic shops prefer it.

Dan
[/QUOTE]

Wow ok, from what I am gathering, it is possible to "braze" in my situation

Ok what machine/setup do I need? I'm guessing it be a torch and some kind of soldier?

 

[joesmith123]

Yep.. I kept forgetting to ask the OP… Was there hydraulic fluid in them still, when you first removed them? Or were they empty? Have you check to see if they are actually still working, should you get the fittings replaced? If not, you might get all the hoses connect, only to find the internal are rotted out…

All good questions to ask before heroics are done on the exterior!

I totally understand your point

They were filled with hydraulic fluid when I got the machine

 

[joesmith123]

My 2 cents replumb with hyd hoses & forget the tubing. Spend your time making brackets to support the hoses.

You know, this is a good idea, and I never thought about it

But I have already went in this direction,

All that's needed is for me to understand the versaflare to make work what I have

It would be the less costly approach at this point

 

[TheOldHokie]

You know, this is a good idea, and I never thought about it

But I have already went in this direction,

All that's needed is for me to understand the versaflare to make work what I have

It would be the less costly approach at this point

To braze ports onto the cylinders all you need is a small air- acetylene torch like plumbers and HVAC techs use. It will get you to about 3000F which is hot enough for most brazing operations. Figurec$300 plus by the time you get your gas. Oxy-acetylene is hotter but puts you in a different price category and requires two gas bottles. Price will be significantly higher.

Plumbing the loader frame with tube is less costly and neater than hoses period. Those hard lines are easy to make using VersilFlare fittings and will fit just like OEM. Running that many hoses gets expensive, bulky and messy fast.

My advice - stick with tube but think long and hard about new cylinders. By the time you buy everything you need to repair and rebuild those OEM cylinders you will be losing money. Not to mention the time and learning curve involved. There is a very real chance you spend a bunch of money only to discover it's beyond your skill level. Hooking up new cylinders is a gauranteed solution and fast.

Dan

 

[joesmith123]

That appears to be a standard JIC flare nut and sleeve. The tube has to be flared using a 37 degree JIC flaring tool to use those nuts and sleeves.

To create a flareless connection using a JIC body with nuts and sleeves like you are trying to do requires a flareless type JIC nut and sleeve. They were invented by AeroQuip who marketed them as VersilFlare fittings. They are also commonly sold as Convert-a-Flare fittings. Hose and fittings sells them in the same section as standard flare nuts and sleeves. They are reliable and easy to assemble but you need to read and carefully follow the AeroQuip assembly instructions attached below.

Hose and Fittings.com

Hose and Fittings.com

Dan

I am rereading this post again now and going to do what it is telling me

My thoughts: When I ordered the entire system, I told him to send me everything I needed to make them work

Could I have the "flareless nut" and just not know how to make it work?

I will check now the SKU of the item I ordered, and the item you are referencing

Wow ok, the one you are referencing is 418-08, the one I received is 318-08

 

[joesmith123]

They are reliable and easy to assemble but you need to read and carefully follow the AeroQuip assembly instructions attached below.

Hose and Fittings.com

Hose and Fittings.com

Dan

Ok i read the instructions, yes I saw a video of someone tightening them the way its instructed

From what I am gathering, I just need a bunch of
419-08: jic flareless sleeve, 1/2
418-08: jic flareless nut, 1/2

I would need a total of 12 sets, 12 of each item

 

[joesmith123]

To braze ports onto the cylinders all you need is a small air- acetylene torch like plumbers and HVAC techs use. It will get you to about 3000F which is hot enough for most brazing operations. Figurec$300 plus by the time you get your gas. Oxy-acetylene is hotter but puts you in a different price category and requires two gas bottles. Price will be significantly higher.

Dan

Yes I will look into this procedure, "Air-Acetylene"

Maybe I might find one used somewhere

Then I would melt some kind of silver onto the area to seal it? Whats the exact material I would ask for after I get the torch?

 

[TheOldHokie]

Ok i read the instructions, yes I saw a video of someone tightening them the way its instructed

From what I am gathering, I just need a bunch of
419-08: jic flareless sleeve, 1/2
418-08: jic flareless nut, 1/2

I would need a total of 12 sets, 12 of each item

Buy moreYou also need the matching male JIC fittings.

Dan

Yes I will look into this procedure, "Air-Acetylene"

Maybe I might find one used somewhere

Then I would melt some kind of silver onto the area to seal it? Whats the exact material I would ask for after I get the torch?

I would assume silicon bronze but I really dont know.

I do metalwork, have a well equipped machine shop with welding equipment and can arc or oxy-acetylene weld with moderate success, and I have great confidence in my ability to learn new processes. I don't know the details of this process and even with my background and equipment I would not attempt this repair just to save a couple hundred bucks. The time required and potential for failure is too great.

I have offered all the advice I can with the tube and fittings aspect. If you are going to go this welding/brazing route a welding forum should probably be your next stop.

Dan

 

[joesmith123]

Buy moreYou also need the matching male JIC fittings.

Dan

Yes, I am making the order now

I'm getting:
4 male union jic fittings (top of the line that goes to the joystick)
12 sets of female adapters
I do have 4 jic tees, and 4 jic 90s

Buy moreYou also need the matching male JIC fittings.

Dan

I would assume silicon bronze but I really dont know.

I do metalwork, have a well equipped machine shop with welding equipment and can arc or oxy-acetylene weld with moderate success, and I have great confidence in my ability to learn new processes. I don't know the details of this process and even with my background and equipment I would not attempt this repair just to save a couple hundred bucks. The time required and potential for failure is too great.

I have offered all the advice I can with the tube and fittings aspect. If you are going to go this welding/brazing route a welding forum should probably be your next stop.

Dan

Yes, the help from your advice is immeasurable, I'll figure out that welding situation after I get all the lines connected

 

[Jim L.]

Wow ok, from what I am gathering, it is possible to "braze" in my situation

Ok what machine/setup do I need? I'm guessing it be a torch and some kind of soldier?

Not soldier, but silver brazing rods. Brazing is at a higher temperature. The percentage of silver will depend on your materials - I can't/won't answer that because I am not looking at your stuff. Price the rods before deciding which direction to take, silver is not cheap.

The torch will be for heating the materials. When they are hot enough, the braze rod is placed against the materials and the hot materials melt the rod. Key point here is that the rod is not melted by the flame.

Eye protection both physical and for UV.