How do I get work done on my tractor, been black listed!?

lugbolt

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ZG127S-54
Oct 15, 2015
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Loader frames are robotically welded.

As far as the original post, it happens. Dealers do in fact communicate with each other, and often. Y'all probably didn't know that, but you do now. I'm no longer with kubota dealer but in the 30 years I was, it wasn't uncommon to reach out to other dealers with tech questions or guidance, or occasionally asking about a customer's equipment (service history, etc). Often I'd get more info than I wanted, and I'll leave it at that.

All kubota dealers have access to warranty claims, so if a dealer in Washington state files a claim for a broken bolt, I can see it at a dealer in SE Florida, as any other dealer can if they have the serial number. Then they know how many hours and/or miles were on the equipment at the time of repair, and what was done, etc. There is more good in this practice than bad, it helps dealers understand the equipment and prevent duplicate claims and a bunch of other stuff that helps the owners.

additionally some dealers are linked together in that they share the same ownership, yet different dealer names. Those dealers stay in close contact with one another for a lot of issues. For the first 26 years of me doing dealer work, I was with a one-store mom & pop place, that was not linked to any other dealer other than friendly business dealings (calls about tech issues, parts issues, whatever). The last 3 years the dealer was bought out by a company who owned 10 other dealers (11 now) but most were different dealer names (now all the same). That conglomerate was VERY good at communicating with the other stores, usually transferring parts from one dealer to another, but also tech issues (that was the one good thing about working under a corporate atmosphere) and occasionally customer issues. Had a few instances where a customer would write a rubber check for equipment or parts or service, and we'd get a group text "do not do business with so-and-such and this is why". So yes, it happens, it's legal, and there's nothing "bad" about it. Only once in those years can I remember any dealer sharing a "do not do business with this customer" message and it was a customer who was obviously trying to dupe the dealers. I remember the name. I also remember the face, and the usernames that he used on some forums.
 
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jaxs

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B1750HST
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That's an obvious manufacturing defect that I bet is on a bunch more loaders, they're just not used hard enough to break that.
I agree and the fact two identical failures showed up here at the same time proves it.
 
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whitetiger

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I called KTAC and they automatically kicked it over to OICLS
OIC Lender Services, a division of Ohio Indemnity Company, is a unique specialty insurance company.
That would be the company that administers KTAC.
It is up to you, the policyholder to file a claim with KTAC who will then contact the dealer you are dealing with. The dealer will take over from there. Until you file a claim, I doubt much is going to happen.
 
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jaxs

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B1750HST
Jun 22, 2023
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I don't disagree that the weld is very poor but if the tube had been installed through the tube it would be substantially stronger even with the rotten weld job.
Based on that line of thought would you agree the repair would be improved by adding a plate? After weld bead has been ground off a plate with hole slides over tube then welded to tube and frame.
 
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NorthwoodsLife

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Kubota B7100(sold), Kubota LX2610 Cab
Oct 15, 2021
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Loader frames are robotically welded.

As far as the original post, it happens. Dealers do in fact communicate with each other, and often. Y'all probably didn't know that, but you do now. I'm no longer with kubota dealer but in the 30 years I was, it wasn't uncommon to reach out to other dealers with tech questions or guidance, or occasionally asking about a customer's equipment (service history, etc). Often I'd get more info than I wanted, and I'll leave it at that.

All kubota dealers have access to warranty claims, so if a dealer in Washington state files a claim for a broken bolt, I can see it at a dealer in SE Florida, as any other dealer can if they have the serial number. Then they know how many hours and/or miles were on the equipment at the time of repair, and what was done, etc. There is more good in this practice than bad, it helps dealers understand the equipment and prevent duplicate claims and a bunch of other stuff that helps the owners.

additionally some dealers are linked together in that they share the same ownership, yet different dealer names. Those dealers stay in close contact with one another for a lot of issues. For the first 26 years of me doing dealer work, I was with a one-store mom & pop place, that was not linked to any other dealer other than friendly business dealings (calls about tech issues, parts issues, whatever). The last 3 years the dealer was bought out by a company who owned 10 other dealers (11 now) but most were different dealer names (now all the same). That conglomerate was VERY good at communicating with the other stores, usually transferring parts from one dealer to another, but also tech issues (that was the one good thing about working under a corporate atmosphere) and occasionally customer issues. Had a few instances where a customer would write a rubber check for equipment or parts or service, and we'd get a group text "do not do business with so-and-such and this is why". So yes, it happens, it's legal, and there's nothing "bad" about it. Only once in those years can I remember any dealer sharing a "do not do business with this customer" message and it was a customer who was obviously trying to dupe the dealers. I remember the name. I also remember the face, and the usernames that he used on some forums.
This^^^^^^

I don't agree with Lugbolt much of the time. But that is pretty spot on.
 
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GreensvilleJay

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re: thru hole vs butt. I don't think there's enough 'meat' in the lower section of arm and the reenforcement plate to have holes in them for a 'thru hole' design. Not only would the tube be close to the edge, you have to line all of them up and weld on both sides. Those extra steps, while producing a stronger joint aren't needed when you consider the light duty use of the frame.

The welds weren't deep enough ( penetration). Not enough amps ? Bad wire ? Not clean steel ? I don't know. What I found interesting was the amount of RUST on the 'inside' of the frame.

If I hadn't had my neighbour do the welding,I'd used my buzzbox and 7018AC rods once I got the two pieces cleaned,perfectly lined up and clamped down.
 

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OrangePower

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A cute little rinky dinky 2021 BX23s
Sep 15, 2021
172
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VA
If it comes to that....
OIC Lender Services, a division of Ohio Indemnity Company, is a unique specialty insurance company.
That would be the company that administers KTAC.
It is up to you, the policyholder to file a claim with KTAC who will then contact the dealer you are dealing with. The dealer will take over from there. Until you file a claim, I doubt much is going to happen.

I have already filed the claim with KTAC, who sent it to OIC. I got my claim number, sent picture to dealer #2 and straight to the insurance after no response from dealer #2 and OIC wondering where my pictures were. Neither are talking to me after a week with repeated emails sent (first time asking if everything I sent was good, and if OIC heard from dealer #2, email to dealer #2 whats going on) and then 4 days later asking everyone if they got everything since I have not heard from anyone.

No one is talking to me.
 

OrangePower

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A cute little rinky dinky 2021 BX23s
Sep 15, 2021
172
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As far as the original post, it happens.
Oh, I get it, but, why would they even bother contacting someone else when it a shuffle between just me and them? Not like I did anything wrong. In fact, I asked them to just give me the parts and "I" would put them on later when I sold the tractor. I was saving them serious time while they acquired basically free money. And yest they STILL wanted to try to r** me!? Yup, I DONT trust them now, but, was willing to give the next guy a try. I assume they both pull the same r** procedures on un suspecting customers?? I would think if your not gonna screw your customer, you have no worries, right?

And just for the record, I was doing all I could do to stay out of their hair and give them all the breathing room they needed. Told them to take their time, let me do half the "work", find what they want under "warrantee and insurance" and go for it.

My only 2 things I looked for was "only warrantee / insurance work" and time/date lines, and told them I was not worried about dates, just keep me informed. I dont think that falls under unreasonable customer.

I was giving them it all, and still, this..... Amazing!!
 

OrangePower

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A cute little rinky dinky 2021 BX23s
Sep 15, 2021
172
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VA
wow
I'm sure glad I saw this....
I'll have to make sure I stress the hell out of mine while it's still under warranty.


That's an obvious manufacturing defect that I bet is on a bunch more loaders, they're just not used hard enough to break that.

I was typing that out but I just dont have the data as to how many people use the bucket for heavy lifting at what % of run time to conclude my theory, lol. All I know is I use the loader 80%+ of the time the tractor is running, in piles of dirt (heavy lifts). After that comes the backhoe, then she goes to bed.

I too was perplexed about the NOT through cross bar.
 

fried1765

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Kubota L48 TLB, Ford 1920 FEL, Ford 8N, SCAG Liberty Z, Gravely Pro.
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I was traveling at a high rate of speed in the woods. I rounded a corner which I thought I would make. The mud sent me sliding on a crash course into a tree. It as I hit the tree, i could see the boom twist and you are correct, the round cross pipe came off the right cross arm. Factory defect, with a touch of slamming into a tree?

View attachment 126567
OBVIOUSLY, NO Penetration !!!!!
 
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Soopitup

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BX23S
Oct 25, 2018
369
164
43
New England
I don't disagree that the weld is very poor but if the tube had been installed through the tube it would be substantially stronger even with the rotten weld job.
The joint may have been stronger; a weld of that quality would probably still have cracked.
A hole that large in the loader boom may compromise it's strength though. And the boom is probably more important than the crossmember joint.
Considering how absurdly thin the joining metal actually was, how long it held out for, and how many other unbroken loaders potentially with welds like that, that joint with a proper weld is probably just fine. :)

Not to mention if you look close it looks like there actually is a recess in the boom for the crossmember to seat in.


Loader frames are robotically welded.
That's even more comforting.
A machine consistently did a crappy job on god knows how many loaders, until someone finally noticed and adjusted it, if they ever did.


I was typing that out but I just dont have the data as to how many people use the bucket for heavy lifting at what % of run time to conclude my theory, lol. All I know is I use the loader 80%+ of the time the tractor is running, in piles of dirt (heavy lifts). After that comes the backhoe, then she goes to bed.

I too was perplexed about the NOT through cross bar.
I mainly use my loader too. I beat the crap out of it the other day tearing roots out.

To be fair, I don't think the loader was designed to deal with what you did to it. :ROFLMAO:

OBVIOUSLY, NO Penetration !!!!!
It's no good without penetration.
 

NorthwoodsLife

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Oct 15, 2021
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In my opinion: It comes down to three things....

1> The Insurance / Dealer / Manufacturer doesn't want to pay. As usual. As a group or as an individual company. That will run its course and it WILL take time. Be patient if you are in the right. Be patient. Seems like Blacklisted, but be patient. It's not there yet.

2> All of the above 'think' that you are an unsatisfiable customer. Who possibly abused the tractor. They will string you along and eventually get it done or fight you in court. But they will wait for letters from your lawyer. Blacklisted.

3> They, all of the parties mentioned above; Think that you are mentally unstable. And then item #2 will apply. But if they think that you are mentally unstable, (nothing implied or intended), they will fight you in court depending on the final money outlay involved. OR.... just fix it and want to be done completely with you. Blacklisted.
 
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OrangePower

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Equipment
A cute little rinky dinky 2021 BX23s
Sep 15, 2021
172
58
28
VA
I mainly use my loader too. I beat the crap out of it the other day tearing roots out.

To be fair, I don't think the loader was designed to deal with what you did to it. :ROFLMAO:
Whats the diff between roots and the body of a tree, its all wood!? :rolleyes:

I mainly use my loader too. I beat the crap out of it the other day tearing roots out.
I DEF work mine, but, I dont run any higher rpms than 2600 rpm and only bog the engine down about 200rpm (say when digging in a pile of dirt). Once it hits 2400rpm, whats in the bucket is whats in the bucket and i try again. That goes with pushing, pulling, ripping etc. I have found that screaming it at 3000k+ does nothing for power. Might get things done quicker, but, your not lifting more than if you run at 2600rpm. I have time, I am in no rush. The other thing is I am extremely anil about squaring up to whatever I am gonna scoop up, so, the booms mounting points is what takes the brunt of 99% of my abuse.


Case in point, I wasnt being a total cave man with it in its 900 hour run, its actually been fairly well treated, considering.....and used.
 
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OrangePower

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A cute little rinky dinky 2021 BX23s
Sep 15, 2021
172
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In my opinion: It comes down to three things....
Well, if thats what it comes down to in this day and age, were def in the sh'ttr! We have just reached Soviet level of "I dont give a sh*t, lets screw em for all we can".
 
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Soopitup

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BX23S
Oct 25, 2018
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Whats the diff between roots and the body of a tree, its all wood!? :rolleyes:
I was using a stump bucket to dig/rip roots out. So the loader was being stressed in the direction(s) it's designed for, up/down.

Unless I'm mistaken, you slid yours into the side of a tree. Which means the loader impacted something large and heavy on the side of the arm, with the weight of the tractor "behind" it.
Which it isn't designed for. :)


I DEF work mine, but, I dont run any higher rpms than 2600 rpm and only bog the engine down about 200rpm (say when digging in a pile of dirt). Once it hits 2400rpm, whats in the bucket is whats in the bucket and i try again. That goes with pushing, pulling, ripping etc. I have found that screaming it at 3000k+ does nothing for power. Might get things done quicker, but, your not lifting more than if you run at 2600rpm. I have time, I am in no rush. The other thing is I am extremely anil about squaring up to whatever I am gonna scoop up, so, the booms mounting points is what takes the brunt of 99% of my abuse.


Case in point, I wasnt being a total cave man with it in its 900 hour run, its actually been fairly well treated, considering.....and used.
Unfortunately for mine, I don't get max pressure until I hit max RPM (see note below). So when I do have to work it hard it has to scream. If I'm just moving a pile of dirt I don't need that. But breaking/ripping out the roots of a 70 foot tall Norway Maple takes brute force. I had the front of the tractor up in the air more times than I could count.....
In 2WD only, for the record.

*I have a problem with my hydraulics; potentially a piece of case sealant stuck in the flow priority valve, or somewhere else in the system. I've tested with a gauge, pressure is very low once hot, and I don't get max pressure until I hit max RPM.
Something I need to dig into more at some point, but I need to get work done right now.*
 
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OrangePower

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A cute little rinky dinky 2021 BX23s
Sep 15, 2021
172
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VA
loader impacted something large and heavy on the side of the arm, with the weight of the tractor "behind" it.
Which it isn't designed for. :)
Like driving full steam into a pile of dirt (low speed/gear)? I know, I know, dirt is a little softer than a tree, but, still eventually putting the same forces on it, especially if your trying to level something and then the bucket just digs in. I think it was just a matter of A) Being a weak point in general and B) by catching the side of the bucket and not directly into the middle, the shock and twisting it produced (and I saw) was the final nail in the ol' coffin.

Oh, and yea, not designed for it......



But breaking/ripping out the roots of a 70 foot tall Norway Maple takes brute force.
Yea, I did cheat a little and had to run her up to 2800 for the box blade when I used it. In general for bucket use i use 2600rpm and backhoe 2400rpm. I might go back up to 2600rpm on the backhoe if I am in a little bit of a hurry. Anything more than that for those 2 and its beyond the point of any added return.


I've tested with a gauge, pressure is very low once hot, and I don't get max pressure until I hit max RPM.
Interesting, as that was one of my complaints on the list, to check pressure cold/hot, as it seemed to be weak as it got hot.

Also, I have a "dry power steering pump whine", especially using the backhoe. You have your normal HST whine, straining HST whine and I have a extra "hoowwwwwwwrrrrr" sound (like the power steering on a car going dry and sucking air) sound mostly when you max the backhoe on the left swing, or, you get hooked on a stump and it cant pull anymore.

I asked the dealer to take a look at it and he sounded pretty indifferent to the issue, not so surprised and didnt really care. Maybe since I was 2 weeks from being out of warrantee, he didnt want to deal with it and this was all by design? Now that I think of it, why else would I say "insurance work and warrantee work only" till I was blue in the face and they start throwing bills at me but to get me to go away? Was I screwed from the start????

Things that make you go "hmmmmm'!
 
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Geezer3d

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Heart of the Catskills
Regardless of whether or not you are a 'difficult' customer, and regardless of how the damage was done, the shop should never perform any work that they plan to charge you for without your permission in advance.
 
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