COVID-19 Stuff

[NHSleddog]

The part of your logic that I disagree with is the notion that the virus will come to enough dead ends that it will die out quickly if left unhindered. Unless all possible hosts, human and animal, die, it will persist. There will always be naive potential hosts being born. Weighing the costs of the medical treatments, the deaths, a potential invalid population, is complicated.

Different countries are trying different strategies. Sweden comes the closest to your idea, partly with the hope of saving the economy, and it looked for the first month or so that their strategy was working. However then even with mortality exceeding that of their neighboring countries, their economy also suffered tremendous losses even though not shut down. It remains to be seen how it will turn out.

Sweden's controversial anti-lockdown strategy resulted in a high death toll and no real economic gain, data shows

"They literally gained nothing," an economist told The New York Times. "It's a self-inflicted wound, and they have no economic gains."

www.businessinsider.com

Enough dead ends? It doesn't matter. One way (the way we have ALWAYS done it) will end MUCH MUCH faster. it is simple math. The other "brand new" method will take a lot longer.

Explain how that is wrong. Use math if you can, feelings are not a good method.

Are you saying that article I posted from yesterday is wrong? Are you saying Sweden is still in lock down? Where do you get your information from? I can't see the article on that US Business site you posted (wants me to join something). I can find a bunch of articles about them being open and past the outbreak. How many links do I need to post for you to believe it?

 

[sheepfarmer]

Unlike yourself, the Virus is much smarter than you think. It knows that if it kills off all it's "hosts" it WILL die off. Therefore, and it's being proved now, it has mitigated it's killing power. i.e. it's not as virulent as when it began.

Where did you see that? I have seen papers analyzing mutations in the virus involving the spike protein that make it more infectious but do not make it less deadly.

 

[sheepfarmer]

It is a shame that people as so bad at math and easily duped. This is an extremely simplified example, but go ahead and model it as complex as you want, the end result will be the same either way. Until the virus runs into dead ends everywhere, it will just keep keeping on.

100 people in a room with airborn Covid.

The End Result,
100 people exposed
less than 50 get it at all (natural immunity)
Less then 25 of them show any symptoms at all
Less than 5 of them have serious symptoms.
Less than 3 of them need to be hospitalized.
One of them may die.

This entire test from the first exposure to the last person that is a dead end to it will be just under 6 weeks.


The First Time Ever New Approach
25 people in a room with Covid in it (wearing masks) 75 people partially hiding outside the room.
Now add 2 or 3 people and remove 2 or 3 people every week. How long will it be for it to run the course.
Some of them will be in the room with masks, gloves etc., and will avoid it THIS trip into the room (the law of averages though says they will get it eventually on one of the trips into the room), so they will REMAIN live active target hosts to the virus instead of a dead end.

This removing/adding (isolating/not isolating) will go on and on for years until the virus runs out of new hosts.

The end result,
100 people exposed
less than 50 get it at all (natural immunity)
Less then 25 of them show any symptoms at all
Less than 5 of them have serious symptoms.
Less than 3 of them need to be hospitalized.
One of them may die.

The only difference in the outcome is the extreme amount of time it was around. Well that and 60% of the nations restaurants are now out of business, OUR country has taken on 4+ trillion in new debt, many people are losing everything. <None of that latter part happens in the first group>.

Unfortunately, I am a math guy.

Partial hiding and masking CAN ONLY PROLONG IT.

Ok your math and your biology confuse the issue. Starting at the top, the first 50 get it and 50 do not due to natural immunity. This is incorrect. If your immune system comes into play you "have it". Second, the remaining categories don't add up to 50.

Proper quarantine would result in no one entering the "room" and the virus in there dying out. This has been done successfully in only a few places, and as long as we all live in the same world and move around it will never die out.

As for slowing the process down, the object of well done shut downs has been to slow it down enough to get ahead of the medical problems and for treatments and vaccines to catch up. Keep in mind that what is unusual about this virus is its extreme contagiousness. Other countries are managing this process with less economic damage and mortality. With the patchwork approach, the US is suffering terrible economic damage as well as high mortality. If that is what you object to, we are on the same page. Look around the world and see how it could have been.

 

[Magicman]

The universal way to solve any problem is to form a committee and make a study.

Most of the "studies" are circles, dead ends, and rabbit holes and also most can be interpreted in various ways and not necessarily as the author(s) intended. The committee's first objective is to protect the committee.

Most of today's (especially) younger society/population has no time for the inconvenience so just take a pill and make it go away. When it doesn't then it is someone else's fault so it's back to the blame game.
'

 

[sparky45]

Where did you see that? I have seen papers analyzing mutations in the virus involving the spike protein that make it more infectious but do not make it less deadly.

Doctors say covid-19 at UPMC is declining in virulence, infection levels

Covid-19 is declining in both virulence and infection levels among patients at the state’s largest health care system, UPMC officials said Thursday. Dr. Donald Yealy, who heads emergency medicine at the system that has hospitals across the state, said both the ratio of patients testing positive...

triblive.com

 

[NHSleddog]

Ok your math and your biology confuse the issue. Starting at the top, the first 50 get it and 50 do not due to natural immunity. This is incorrect. If your immune system comes into play you "have it". Second, the remaining categories don't add up to 50.

Proper quarantine would result in no one entering the "room" and the virus in there dying out. This has been done successfully in only a few places, and as long as we all live in the same world and move around it will never die out.

As for slowing the process down, the object of well done shut downs has been to slow it down enough to get ahead of the medical problems and for treatments and vaccines to catch up. Keep in mind that what is unusual about this virus is its extreme contagiousness. Other countries are managing this process with less economic damage and mortality. With the patchwork approach, the US is suffering terrible economic damage as well as high mortality. If that is what you object to, we are on the same page. Look around the world and see how it could have been.

There is NO "proper quarantine". That is a fantasy.

We have a FIRST TIME EVER partial closings and partial coverings.

THIS METHOD WILL GUARANTEE IT LASTS LONGER.
You have not said a single factual thing that disputes that.

So feel good knowing YOU are partially responsible for extending the nightmare for those in lock down, those losing their businesses and those dying of other causes.

IMHO - those that are extending the outbreak (FOR THE FIRST TIME IN HISTORY) are the SELFISH ones, not the ones trying to end it.

 

[NHSleddog]

Doctors say covid-19 at UPMC is declining in virulence, infection levels

Covid-19 is declining in both virulence and infection levels among patients at the state’s largest health care system, UPMC officials said Thursday. Dr. Donald Yealy, who heads emergency medicine at the system that has hospitals across the state, said both the ratio of patients testing positive...

triblive.com

From that article,
Given those numbers, Yealy said that the risk of being involved in a car crash while traveling across the state on the Pennsylvania Turnpike is greater than the risk of contracting covid-19 here.

Are they all scared to drive in PA today? Should they be?

 

[sheepfarmer]

Doctors say covid-19 at UPMC is declining in virulence, infection levels

Covid-19 is declining in both virulence and infection levels among patients at the state’s largest health care system, UPMC officials said Thursday. Dr. Donald Yealy, who heads emergency medicine at the system that has hospitals across the state, said both the ratio of patients testing positive...

triblive.com

Ok thank you. One doctor, one hospital system, no indication if the population tested included more young patients, but nevertheless encouraging news worth following up on. Note the last sentence about social isolation and masks....

 

[twomany]

Ok thank you. One doctor, one hospital system, no indication if the population tested included more young patients, but nevertheless encouraging news worth following up on. Note the last sentence about social isolation and masks....

Some people derive great satisfaction from self martyr.

Suffering behooves them. The more mysterious the villain, the better for them. Best is an invisible, indescribable pestilence.

The world will END!

So be it.

 

[sparky45]

Ok thank you. One doctor, one hospital system, no indication if the population tested included more young patients, but nevertheless encouraging news worth following up on. Note the last sentence about social isolation and masks....

If I'd provided 10 sources, you'd scoff and find a reason not to believe the results. Scientist??? Sounds like you belong in the "climate scientists cabal".

 

[sheepfarmer]

If I'd provided 10 sources, you'd scoff and find a reason not to believe the results. Scientist??? Sounds like you belong in the "climate scientists cabal".

I did not deny his findings, he reported what he found in his hospital system. I do object if someone says the virus is....as if that has been determined to be true everywhere from one data point. Maybe it will mutate that way, I hope so.

 

[D2Cat]

Out of curiosity I was trying to find some information on the White Coat Summit on Capital Hill yesterday 7/28.

I guess information warfare is real. YouTube says video removed, violating terms of service. Twitter, no longer there. The algorithms must be fine tuned for their censorship because they get it blocked so fast you begin to wonder if it ever existed.

Went to www.americanfrontlinedoctors.com/summit and it says website expired.

It would seem to me in a free country, with all the social media outlets and the crap that is presented on them on a regular basic, like Hollywood goings on, there is something much bigger then a virus going on!

If a Dr. has something to say, and it's not correct in the media owner's opinion and can be shut down we do not have free journalism. This is what leads to lack of information, mis-information and distrust. It makes it pretty easy to see where there may be a connection between big Pharma, and governmental payoffs for big profits. Could also be causing delays in finding existing meds that work, or developing new ones quickly.

We do have a problem!

Top

 

[sheepfarmer]

Out of curiosity I was trying to find some information on the White Coat Summit on Capital Hill yesterday 7/28.

I guess information warfare is real. YouTube says video removed, violating terms of service. Twitter, no longer there. The algorithms must be fine tuned for their censorship because they get it blocked so fast you begin to wonder if it ever existed.

Went to www.americanfrontlinedoctors.com/summit and it says website expired.

It would seem to me in a free country, with all the social media outlets and the crap that is presented on them on a regular basic, like Hollywood goings on, there is something much bigger then a virus going on!

If a Dr. has something to say, and it's not correct in the media owner's opinion and can be shut down we do not have free journalism. This is what leads to lack of information, mis-information and distrust. It makes it pretty easy to see where there may be a connection between big Pharma, and governmental payoffs for big profits. Could also be causing delays in finding existing meds that work, or developing new ones quickly.

We do have a problem!

Top

We do have a problem because there are so many people that can't think critically and make an informed decision about what is crap and what is not. In the case of covid they flunked their science courses. Add that to people wanting to manipulate opinions by posting what they know to be untrue. It is incredibly depressing.

I don't like the idea of censorship, but there has to be a better recourse than to taking it down. On the other hand removing directions for making bombs seems like a good idea
At the very least potential bombmakers should have to go to the library.

 

[sheepfarmer]

This will upset some people but it is worth considering that other countries have made other choices and the US response is mystifying them.

Opinion | ‘That’s Ridiculous.’ How America’s Coronavirus Response Looks Abroad. (Published 2020)

From lockdowns to testing, we showed people around the world the facts and figures on how the U.S. has handled the pandemic.

www.nytimes.com

 

[D2Cat]

We do have a problem because there are so many people that can't think critically and make an informed decision about what is crap and what is not. In the case of covid they flunked their science courses. Add that to people wanting to manipulate opinions by posting what they know to be untrue. It is incredibly depressing.

I don't like the idea of censorship, but there has to be a better recourse than to taking it down. On the other hand removing directions for making bombs seems like a good idea
At the very least potential bombmakers should have to go to the library.

Think about TV, it all has to be edited to fit the space they allot for each bit. The need to edit is an open invitation for out of context reporting. Not reporting the whole story to get the original intent, and allowing the original idea to be modified becomes a falsehood. I suppose as kids, we call that a "white lie"!

I agree bomb makers ought to be able to read!

The information age will be our demise.

 

[twomany]

When censorship becomes this "efficient", it makes one wonder what needs to be hidden and protected. And It's not drinking bleach........

Just in from knocking down an 80 foot tall hemlock about 50 feet from the house. Might be around 80 years old. didn't count rings yet. Starting to go punky at the base. It was time.
Wedged it over opposite of the lean, fell right where I wanted it.

Is this stupid flu over yet? I'm tired!

 

[CaveCreekRay]

You can't make this stuff up. THIS is your mainstream media...

 

[SidecarFlip]

CNN=Clinton News Network. As much credibility as a plugged up commode

 

[SidecarFlip]

Think about TV, it all has to be edited to fit the space they allot for each bit. The need to edit is an open invitation for out of context reporting. Not reporting the whole story to get the original intent, and allowing the original idea to be modified becomes a falsehood. I suppose as kids, we call that a "white lie"!

I agree bomb makers ought to be able to read!

The information age will be our demise.

I'm inherently glad I'm on the end of the tape measure of life so I won't be around to see what this country degenerates into.

Not gonna be purty.....

 

[sheepfarmer]

You can't make this stuff up. THIS is your mainstream media...


View attachment 46659

That is from a Gloria tv twitter post. Gloria tv formerly of Moldova. I suspect fake, but don't have time right now to try to figure it out. Not even CNN would post something that dumb!