BT600 backhoe swings right but not back left

[fried1765]

While you could 'repack onsite', it doesn't FREE UP the pin which just turned on THE light bulb !!

The solution !!!

Providing there's 1/8" clearance,top and btm between cylinder and mount, use a sawzall and NEW metal blade and CUT the stuck pin. Cut btm section first,then top.....
That removes the cylinder, then the 'stubs' in the mounting could be banged out. After that the piece in the cylinder can be pressed out.
The stuck pin needs to be replaced due to rust anyway.....
Price for the pin ?? Maybe $20, new sawzall blade $5 ? Time.....less than 1/2 hr.

Maybe.....but.....
You are far more optimistic about the ease of removing that pin by cutting, than I am!

 

[Chanceywd]

While you could 'repack onsite', it doesn't FREE UP the pin which just turned on THE light bulb !!

The solution !!!

Providing there's 1/8" clearance,top and btm between cylinder and mount, use a sawzall and NEW metal blade and CUT the stuck pin. Cut btm section first,then top.....
That removes the cylinder, then the 'stubs' in the mounting could be banged out. After that the piece in the cylinder can be pressed out.
The stuck pin needs to be replaced due to rust anyway.....
Price for the pin ?? Maybe $20, new sawzall blade $5 ? Time.....less than 1/2 hr.

Another good idea Jay, but I see the pin must be stuck in the outer ends as it had a bolt she removed preventing it from turning there. While due to lack of lubrication it could have a groove or other galling holding it in the cylinder end too. Either way I like the way you think at problem solving this. It gets it out where you can work and the jack could be used to push the stub ends out after with a bolt to push the upper one. Saw might be the answer.

Bill

 

[GreensvilleJay]

If you cut the pin, remove the cylinder, at least 1/2 of the problem is gone. Makes it 10x easier to deal with !
Put bottle jack under lower pin piece, heat/oil the top of the pin piece, raise jack and the 'stub' will come out.
Repeat for the top pin piece, using cut down bolt to 'fill the gap' between jack and upper pin piece.

 

[Tractor Gal]

I've kinda read this thread and it sounds like you want to remove pin #70, so that you can remove the cylinder to have it repaired....
I make two assumptions... 1) the pin was installed from the top down and 2) pin is now 'rust welded' in the mounting hole of the cylinder.

I'd , put a kittylitter box/ pan under the 'area of interest'. Then use the 50/50 mix of acetone/tranny oil and dribble it between the upper mount and the top of the cylinder, using an 'oil can' that has a pump squirter. Add more mix every hour. 1st thing in the morning , until beddyby time, whenever you have a free moment add more mix. do this for 2-3 days. Yes I know it doesn't look like progress BUT the idea is to get the mix DOWN the 'gap' between the pin and the cylinder, to 'wet' the rust and try to loosen it up. Hopefully after a day,or two..some of the mix HAS made it's way through the rust..
Then remove kittylitter pan, put bottle jack under the bottom of the pin. be 100% SURE the top of the jack is dead centered on the pin AND use a 'sacrificial' old socket between the jack and the pin. If the pin is 3/4", use 9/16" socket( what ever is smaller in diameter). Apply some pressure, CONFIRM everything is lined up PERFECTLY then pump the jack several times. Add more mix, walk away, come back in say an hour, add more mix,pump a couple of times, go away.
Hopefully the pin will have moved. It took me 2 weeks of doing this to a 'stuck' engine,it' started and has run fine for 20+ years now.
Removing 'rust welded' parts requires 'mix',pressure and PATIENCE. Some of the 1st two, LOTS of the last.

hope this helps
Jay

I'm for this! I have been putting the 50/50 mix on from time to time but not faithfully, as you suggest. I'll start today. From another point of view...it couldn't hurt, especially as I mull other solutions. It's going to get cold for the next couple of weeks so this will be a good time to work at it from this direction. Thanks for the suggestion.

TG

 

[Tractor Gal]

Cutting the pin may/may not work. If I cut the pin, it will still be holding the cylinder to the frame so I don't know how I could get to it to get it out any better. I may be thinking of this incorrectly, but for the moment, I'm going to try to put the acetone/oil mix on frequently for a number of days and see if I make any progress.

These ideas are great...my skills are not. :-( Gotta' try what is manageable for me first, then go to the more difficult. Thanks for all the suggestions.


TG

 

[GreensvilleJay]

For sure cutting the pin WILL free the cylinder from the mounting.
Using the picture in post #49 as a reference, the pin (070) connects the cylinder(010) to the mounting.
Normally you remove the bolt(080) and nut, then the pin(070), and the cylinder is free of the mounting.
If you disconnect the other end of the cylinder(040,050,060) ,then cut the pin (070) ,the cylinder IS free to come out.
I imagine no one has ever removed and/or greased those pins in several years, it got wet, sat unused, evil rust crept in......

 

[Henro]

For sure cutting the pin WILL free the cylinder from the mounting.
Using the picture in post #49 as a reference, the pin (070) connects the cylinder(010) to the mounting.
Normally you remove the bolt(080) and nut, then the pin(070), and the cylinder is free of the mounting.
If you disconnect the other end of the cylinder(040,050,060) ,then cut the pin (070) ,the cylinder IS free to come out.
I imagine no one has ever removed and/or greased those pins in several years, it got wet, sat unused, evil rust crept in......

Perhaps TG is not realizing that the pin needs cut twice?

 

[GreensvilleJay]

hmm hadn't thought of that, I've done it in my head several times..

yes, pin is cut TWICE...
first cut, between bottom of cylinder and top of the btm mounting, this frees the 'lower' side
2nd cut, between top of cylinder and btm of the top mounting, this frees it completely
with a new,sharp blade , less than 10 minutes, maybe less than 5

Yeesh...trying to type this is taking me longer than actually cutting the silly pin, twice....

 

[Chanceywd]

Just wondering while we are trying to help solve this stuck pin. Has the other end pin been removed so there is no pressure against this right now? I would hate to miss that step and have some weight shift if someone was to try cutting or any other method. If it is loose from the other end what happens when you swing the cylinder by hand ? Does it move on the pin in the cylinder end or in the mounts?

If it isn't loose yet that would seem to be the first step and some way to secure the boom so it stays put while doing. maybe a ratchet strap from each side?

Edit, I went back and reread and I guess this has been covered, sorry to rehash that part. I also read that you tried a jack under the pin, was that with something smaller that 3/4 pushing against it? If the jack top was bigger it isn't going to do anything but lift everything.
And third I see the picture of the top of the pin fairly exposed. You are not able to hit that with a long punch and hammer? Is there something in the way not shown by the picture?

 

[L35]

Good luck cutting the pin, they are harder than diamonds.

 

[fried1765]

Good luck cutting the pin, they are harder than diamonds.

The point in my post #61 exactly!

 

[Tractor Gal]

In the interim of all of these ideas, I have another question. Today, I used the backhoe to dig a small hole without needing to swing the boom to the left. As I examined more closely at the control valve set up, the "plunger" to swing the boom left will not depress. Could the relief valve be a problem? If the boom will swing to the right but not back to the left, I had just figured it was a cylinder problem. So, if I remove the hoses at the control valve and let the fluid drain, would that relieve the pressure enough to depress the plunger? Or, maybe I need to remove the hoses from the cylinder itself to relieve the pressure. Or maybe there would be no way to get the plunger to retract and pull that boom back to center. It is now angled to the right. The one hose is not hard to remove; the other one toward the rear of the cylinder and closest to the stuck pin is really hard to get to. I used a 18mm crow foot but even then it was still hard.

I'll try to get a better picture of the pin and how the cylinder is situated. I don't believe I could cut the pin once, let alone twice! It would be my lot to get the one cut done and not the other! Things just seem to work that way in my repairing resume. And, yes, the pin at the other end was removed so there is no pressure. I tried to wiggle the cylinder up and down a little to hopefully get the stuck end moving a bit but it doesn't move enough to do anything.

Any idea of the relief valve would be a help. I'll look to see if there's a video about how to remove that to see if there's a problem. I think when I had looked at the parts, there are lots of little parts in there. I'd hate to begin something that may not be wise for me to begin!

TG

 

[Henro]

Good luck cutting the pin, they are harder than diamonds.

Not really. Some pins are hardened, but cylinder pins less likely.

Pins on my backhoe that could cause a safety issue ARE hardened. But other pins I have are not. MY guess would be that the cylinder pins are not hardened...but just an educated guess. The swing pivot pins probably would be hardened.

 

[PoTreeBoy]

In the interim of all of these ideas, I have another question. Today, I used the backhoe to dig a small hole without needing to swing the boom to the left. As I examined more closely at the control valve set up, the "plunger" to swing the boom left will not depress. Could the relief valve be a problem? If the boom will swing to the right but not back to the left, I had just figured it was a cylinder problem. So, if I remove the hoses at the control valve and let the fluid drain, would that relieve the pressure enough to depress the plunger? Or, maybe I need to remove the hoses from the cylinder itself to relieve the pressure. Or maybe there would be no way to get the plunger to retract and pull that boom back to center. It is now angled to the right. The one hose is not hard to remove; the other one toward the rear of the cylinder and closest to the stuck pin is really hard to get to. I used a 18mm crow foot but even then it was still hard.

I'll try to get a better picture of the pin and how the cylinder is situated. I don't believe I could cut the pin once, let alone twice! It would be my lot to get the one cut done and not the other! Things just seem to work that way in my repairing resume. And, yes, the pin at the other end was removed so there is no pressure. I tried to wiggle the cylinder up and down a little to hopefully get the stuck end moving a bit but it doesn't move enough to do anything.

Any idea of the relief valve would be a help. I'll look to see if there's a video about how to remove that to see if there's a problem. I think when I had looked at the parts, there are lots of little parts in there. I'd hate to begin something that may not be wise for me to begin!

TG

Are the things circled what you're referring to as plungers (these are on my loader, but your backhoe would be similar)?

If so, when you move the stick one way, it should pull out and when you move the stick the opposite way it should push in. When you move it forward and back, one spool (plunger) should move, and when you move it left and right the one next to it should move.
If that's not happening, you have a valve issue. I don't think yours has a relief valve in it, even if it does, when you turn the engine off and move the loader valve, any pressure bleeds off. So I don't think it's related to a relief valve.

Describe what's happening a little better, and someone (probably not me) can help.

 

[TheOldHokie]

In the interim of all of these ideas, I have another question. Today, I used the backhoe to dig a small hole without needing to swing the boom to the left. As I examined more closely at the control valve set up, the "plunger" to swing the boom left will not depress. Could the relief valve be a problem? If the boom will swing to the right but not back to the left, I had just figured it was a cylinder problem. So, if I remove the hoses at the control valve and let the fluid drain, would that relieve the pressure enough to depress the plunger? Or, maybe I need to remove the hoses from the cylinder itself to relieve the pressure. Or maybe there would be no way to get the plunger to retract and pull that boom back to center. It is now angled to the right. The one hose is not hard to remove; the other one toward the rear of the cylinder and closest to the stuck pin is really hard to get to. I used a 18mm crow foot but even then it was still hard.

I'll try to get a better picture of the pin and how the cylinder is situated. I don't believe I could cut the pin once, let alone twice! It would be my lot to get the one cut done and not the other! Things just seem to work that way in my repairing resume. And, yes, the pin at the other end was removed so there is no pressure. I tried to wiggle the cylinder up and down a little to hopefully get the stuck end moving a bit but it doesn't move enough to do anything.

Any idea of the relief valve would be a help. I'll look to see if there's a video about how to remove that to see if there's a problem. I think when I had looked at the parts, there are lots of little parts in there. I'd hate to begin something that may not be wise for me to begin!

TG

I am with Potreeboy.

The "plunger" controls cylinder operation. If it wont move the cylinder wont operate. It is not really under any sort of hydraulic pressure that would prevent it from moving. I think you would be wise to leave that relief valve alone.

Your problem is most likely something mechanical with the valve. Verify that the control linkage (lever) is working. If thats good then the spool is probably jammed inside the valve. Rust, broken return spring, debris caught in one of the lands or simply bent are possibilities there. In all of those cases its valve disassembly time. Lots of little pieces in there too.

Is your valve a one piece casting or is it individual sections sandwiched together with tie rods?

Right now on my phone. I will check the parts diagrams when I get to my desktop.

Dan

 

[PoTreeBoy]

I am with Potreeboy.

The "plunger" controls cylinder operation. If it wont move the cylinder wont operate. It is not really under any sort of hydraulic pressure that would prevent it from moving. I think you would be wise to leave that relief valve alone.

Your problem is most likely something mechanical with the valve. Verify that the control linkage (lever) is working. If thats good then the spool is probably jammed inside the valve. Rust, broken return spring, debris caught in one of the lands or simply bent are possibilities there. In all of those cases its valve disassembly time. Lots of little pieces in there too.

Is your valve a one piece casting or is it individual sections sandwiched together with tie rods?

Right now on my phone. I will check the parts diagrams when I get to my desktop.

Dan

Pretty sure it's a Husco sectional, probably 5000 series.

 

[Tractor Gal]

Perhaps the problem is not the cylinder after all! Here's a diagram of the swing control valve:

I'm looking at the WSM for directions to see if this is something I want to tackle. I had considered buying a new valve! NOT! $733+ Oh my. I'd better learn how to repair.

TG

 

[GreensvilleJay]

yes you need to CONFIRM that the control valve 'spool' ( rod that moves in and out DOES actually move in and out. NO power need, just push and pull the lever, you should 'feel' 3 positions .

Anyone know if there's a 'kiddie guard' or 'lock' on this BH ?
Maybe remove a cover and SEE what's going on ??

 

[Tractor Gal]

yes you need to CONFIRM that the control valve 'spool' ( rod that moves in and out DOES actually move in and out. NO power need, just push and pull the lever, you should 'feel' 3 positions .

Anyone know if there's a 'kiddie guard' or 'lock' on this BH ?
Maybe remove a cover and SEE what's going on ??

No, there is not a lock or kiddie guard. The spool rod for the swing action pulls up when lever is moved to the right, but will not go down when moved to the left. I have removed the cover even though that removal is not necessary to see the spool movement...or lack of movement in this case.

Do each of these "sections" come off the main group so that it can be repaired? If so, it would be a lot easier. I could put it on a flat surface and then remove and inspect the parts. I'm getting the feeling that the cylinder is not the problem but the individual control valve for the swing.

The WSM does show an exploded view...posted above. That makes me think that the individual control can be removed. BUT, it does not show how or if these control sections are attached to one another. I haven't looked closely to see. Maybe when I do, it'll be obvious.

I won't have a chance to work on this for a while. But, I will be trying to research to find out more.

TG

 

[TheOldHokie]

No, there is not a lock or kiddie guard. The spool rod for the swing action pulls up when lever is moved to the right, but will not go down when moved to the left. I have removed the cover even though that removal is not necessary to see the spool movement...or lack of movement in this case.

Do each of these "sections" come off the main group so that it can be repaired? If so, it would be a lot easier. I could put it on a flat surface and then remove and inspect the parts. I'm getting the feeling that the cylinder is not the problem but the individual control valve for the swing.

The WSM does show an exploded view...posted above. That makes me think that the individual control can be removed. BUT, it does not show how or if these control sections are attached to one another. I haven't looked closely to see. Maybe when I do, it'll be obvious.

I won't have a chance to work on this for a while. But, I will be trying to research to find out more.

TG

If the spool does not shift the hoe will not swing.

The valve sections are held together by long tie rods that pass through the stack horizontally. Remove the nuts on the tie rods on that end and slide the sections off one by one. Dint loose the orings between the sections. There may be some sort of base plate or mounting bolts on the underside of one or more sections thst will complicate removal.

Dan