9-12,000 watt Portable Standby Generator Recommendations

[RCW]

I’m looking at various transfer switches, etc.

Tough part is entrance and load center are at opposite end of the house from where generator is stored in the garage. 65 feet in all.

 

[Flintknapper]

Checklists kept ME alive!

An 'Equal number of take-offs and landings' are what kept you alive.

At least that's what my brother (a pilot) says is the goal.

How you achieve that is up to you, some regulations, procedures and luck.

 

[fried1765]

An 'Equal number of take-offs and landings' are what kept you alive.

At least that's what my brother (a pilot) says is the goal.

How you achieve that is up to you, some regulations, procedures and luck.

If your brother is also a carrier qualified Naval Aviator, he will understand that SKILL is also a major contributor to success/survival.

 

[Flintknapper]

If your brother is also a carrier qualified Naval Aviator, he will understand that SKILL is also a major contributor to success/survival.

No doubt. But I think he (my brother) would be the first to admit that his many thousands of hours flying (safely) don't necessarily translate to his understanding of things electrical.

 

[fried1765]

No doubt. But I think he (my brother) would be the first to admit that his many thousands of hours flying (safely) don't necessarily translate to his understanding of things electrical.

Unless an engineering degree might translate to such.

 

[BAP]

I’m looking at various transfer switches, etc.

Tough part is entrance and load center are at opposite end of the house from where generator is stored in the garage. 65 feet in all.

I have an interlock transfer switch in my main panel in the basement just below the outside outlet that I plug my generator into. To actually get to it, it is about a 80 foot walk which is a pain when it is dark. My generator plug in outlet on the side of the house is about 5 feet to the left of the meter and line going into the house. I looked at putting a manual generator disconnect switch on the side of the house in the main feed into the house. Cost is what had kept me from doing it at this point. Maybe someday. Certainly would be much easier.

 

[Magicman]

Some of the replies in this topic remind me of....

 

[RCW]

I have an interlock transfer switch in my main panel in the basement just below the outside outlet that I plug my generator into. To actually get to it, it is about a 80 foot walk which is a pain when it is dark. My generator plug in outlet on the side of the house is about 5 feet to the left of the meter and line going into the house. I looked at putting a manual generator disconnect switch on the side of the house in the main feed into the house. Cost is what had kept me from doing it at this point. Maybe someday. Certainly would be much easier.

Yeah, that’s where I’m a little bit stumped too.

House and attached garage are a long rectangle. Service entrance at north, garage where generator stored at south.

Sometimes we lose power when there’s a lot of snow. Makes for a long haul to the north side.

I would like the plug much closer to the garage end. I’m also guessing that the whip cord from the generator is also somewhat limited for length.

Additional stuff beyond my expertise….but I keep researching.

 

[RCW]

I ran 6/3 Romex to the sub panel in garage.

Hindsight, maybe I should have done 2 runs at same time?

 

[RBsingl]

I ran 6/3 Romex to the sub panel in garage.

Hindsight, maybe I should have done 2 runs at same time?

The generator is going to need its own run to the changeover switch or lockout breaker in the main panel. My generator is located about 60 feet from the auto transfer switch where the power comes into the property and I ran 4/0 triplex in buried conduit to the transfer switch.

Be careful with neutral and ground bonding when doing this type of wiring. Neutral should be bonded to ground at only one point, generally the main service entrance or main breaker panel depending upon how your property and utility feed are set up. Transfer switches, sub-panels, etc. will keep neutral isolated from ground. Multiple bonds between neutral and ground violate NEC and can cause issues with modern electronic devices including nuisance trips of GFI breakers and outlets. But all grounds should be bonded together; some portable generator manuals instruct you to bond it to one or more ground rods and if you do this make sure those rods and the generator frame are bonded to the rest of the property system ground. And make sure you have a good whole house surge suppressor installed when using generators, especially the portable types which can do some interesting things when exposed to a rapidly changing load.

Rodger

 

[RCW]

My son and I checked voltage and amperage output of the Troy-Bilt/Briggs & Stratton generator.

Only checked the 120v plugs. Don’t have a way to check the 240/30A outlet.

Used a 1500w space heater plugged into the generator.

Got 107-112 volts at the outlets. Same under load and no load. One side was 112, other 107.

Read 12.5A at each of the 4 outlets.

Not sure what kind of deviation is significant. Guessing this is of concern, as it’s about 10%?

I understand our measuring equipment may not be precise, but we did read 120.5v and 0.5A using line power on a simple electric fan as a test run. Both readings would be within expected values.

Next step is to pull end off the alternator head.

It seems like it’s similar to my ‘Moline starter project a few years ago, just working in reverse…..

 

[RBsingl]

My son and I checked voltage and amperage output of the Troy-Bilt/Briggs & Stratton generator.

Was the current draw of the space heater consistent during the entire run or did you just check the current draw at the start of measurement? Current will vary with different types of heaters, sometimes quite a bit. Standard resistance wire type heaters (including the quartz tube types) have lowest resistance with the element cold and it will increase with heat and will vary with applied voltage. Many solid element (i.e. ceramic PTC types) will vary current draw radically based upon the heat of the element as they self regulate. So you will see voltage variance over time if the current draw of your load was also varying.

Is the engine maintaining a steady note and speed under load? Make sure it is operating properly (properly adjusted and not gummed up carb, good plug and coil, etc.) before tearing into the alternator head and regulator.

115/230 was at one time the "target" center value for U.S. distribution but 120/240 is now commonly accepted. 107 volts is at the level where compressor motors (like refrigerator and deep freezes) may become unhappy. Best practice limits deviations from not under 108 and not over 125 each side of neutral (ignoring brief drops that will occur when a heavy load is suddenly picked up).

Do you have access to a service manual for your setup? Many of the regulators for smaller portable generators are fixed while others have limited range trimmer adjustments for voltage; most portable generators don't use the alternator to control throttle but rely upon the engine governor to set operating RPM. An old school analog electric clock, preferably with a sweep second hand, will allow you to calculate average output frequency of the generator if your meter doesn't measure frequency. Typically, these small gensets have the governor set to run slightly over 3,600 RPM with no/very light load so that they will drop slightly to 3,600 plus/minus a small percent under the normal operating load range which provides for the desired 60 hz output with their single pole alternator.

Rodger

 

[Flintknapper]

Unless an engineering degree might translate to such.

Are you saying you are an electrical engineer?

I am a retired Mechanical Engineer (RV industry). My Father was an Electronic Engineer through his time spent in the Navy. But my skills and knowledge concerning things electrical are average at best. So no....I wouldn't say just any engineering degree translates to electrical knowledge.

But back to the subject matter (lest we go off on any other tangents).....the main point revolves around 'safely' (and in some cases legality) back-feeding a panel in your building. Done correctly (isolating the panel from the service feed) it can be done safely enough. No one is really arguing that.

Done incorrectly (under certain conditions) you can indeed send power back down the lines. We can avoid this in a number of ways. Some of those methods have already been discussed....so no need to rehash them here.

I think some sage advice has been offered (Use a transfer switch/sub panel or interlock) but there are other ways isolate. Each person is responsible to take whatever measures necessary (for THEIR set up) to insure the safety of all involved. That's all.

 

[RCW]

Rodger - -

Thanks for the input.

The heater we were running is a simple "Milkhouse Heater," as I know them. Heated wire coils with fan.

We did not do many readings over a heating cycle.

No workshop manual for the genny but have found a couple parts diagrams. Many alternator parts no longer available. I believe the voltage regulator still is, if I find the proper version of the equipment.

The engine seems to be stout enough. Clean air filter and motor oil. New plug. Started on first pull today, and most occasions. Except for a couple occasions, has never run anything but ethanol-free gas. Has ALWAYS has the fuel shut off, and been allowed to shut off after running dry.

The engine does respond as expected when the load on the generator changes. Runs solid while under load.

Don't think it's an engine issue. Has always been solid, to my estimation.

Nothing more than my gut and 50+ years of experience with small gas engines.

 

[fried1765]

Are you saying you are an electrical engineer?

I am a retired Mechanical Engineer (RV industry). My Father was an Electronic Engineer through his time spent in the Navy. But my skills and knowledge concerning things electrical are average at best. So no....I wouldn't say just any engineering degree translates to electrical knowledge.

But back to the subject matter (lest we go off on any other tangents).....the main point revolves around 'safely' (and in some cases legally) back-feeding a panel in your building. Done correctly (isolating the panel from the service feed) it can be done safely enough. No one is really arguing that.

Done incorrectly (under certain conditions) you can indeed send power back down the lines. We can avoid this in a number of ways. Some of those methods have already been discussed....so no need to rehash them here.

I think some sage advice has been offered (Use a transfer switch/sub panel or interlock) but there are other ways isolate. Each person is responsible to take whatever measures necessary (for THEIR set up) to insure the safety of all involved. That's all.

BINGO!

 

[RCW]

BINGO!

I HAVE HAD ENOUGH!!!!

fried1765 and flintknapper - - if you guys want to talk about flying planes or engineering degrees, DO IT SOMEWHERE ELSE!!!!!

Make your own friggin' thread, and fire away!!!

Not that is matters, but I have BS degrees in both Forestry and Forest Biology. Bet I can identify more trees than you and also estimate their value....SO THERE!

I wanted recommendations for a generator. Ancillary, I found it good to get recommendations on how to connect same to the house.

You guys started along the line of thought but diverged with time.

Unless you have something to add, post your pilot or engineering experience/expertise somewhere else.

Someday, another person in my spot might be able to learn something about portable generators and their appurtenances. Not about flying planes or engineering degrees.

That said, if either of you served our country, thank you for your service. Meant with all sincerity. We are in your debt.

Betting it applies to one or both of you.

 

[RBsingl]

Rodger - -

Thanks for the input.

The heater we were running is a simple "Milkhouse Heater," as I know them. Heated wire coils with fan.

It sounds like you have it covered on the engine. And those "Milkhouse" heaters are simple and dead reliable, I have a couple of them. The current draw is pretty stable on them after a few seconds of operation so you probably have a steady current draw with it running.

How long have you run the generator at a time yet? Put a decent load on it (no need for full load, a couple thousand watts will be fine and it can vary) and let it run for an hour. One huge advantage of an alternator over a typical DC generator is the slip ring is only carrying field excitation current, not the output current, so slip ring wear isn't a problem until you get into very high hours. But if the alternator has been sitting, it is quite possible that the contact area has built up some debris or corrosion that will affect the regulation so run it for a period of time to exercise it if you haven't done so already.

You should be able to find a replacement regulator board if needed, if you get a chance then take a photo of the current board and post it here. IF there is a trimmer resistor to set the voltage output then it can also have drifted from its set value over time. Precisely mark its current setting and then run it end to end through its rotation three or four times returning to exactly where it was previously set. Then start the generator and check the output voltage and adjust as needed.

The output waveform of a lot of small generators is far from a sine wave even when operating as intended so unless you can verify the cleanliness of the output (viewing on a scope is a good method if you have a friend with one), I wouldn't plug anything sophisticated and high value into it. I run my HP Z series workstation computers without concern with my big standby generator because it produces a near perfect output waveform but I would not have used them with the portable generator I had before. A waveform with a lot of distortion can create ugly voltage spikes when it interacts with the typical inductance in the AC to DC power supplies of a lot of modern consumer equipment.

Good luck with your project. It sounds like you will have a solid setup.

Rodger

 

[fried1765]

I HAVE HAD ENOUGH!!!!

fried1765 and flintknapper - - if you guys want to talk about flying planes or engineering degrees, DO IT SOMEWHERE ELSE!!!!!

Make your own friggin' thread, and fire away!!!

Not that is matters, but I have BS degrees in both Forestry and Forest Biology. Bet I can identify more trees than you and also estimate their value....SO THERE!

I wanted recommendations for a generator. Ancillary, I found it good to get recommendations on how to connect same to the house.

You guys started along the line of thought but diverged with time.

Unless you have something to add, post your pilot or engineering experience/expertise somewhere else.

Someday, another person in my spot might be able to learn something about portable generators and their appurtenances. Not about flying planes or engineering degrees.

That said, if either of you served our country, thank you for your service. Meant with all sincerity. We are in your debt.

Betting it applies to one or both of you.

Apparently you have assumed the mantra of content controller.
Unfortunately, that does not work to intimidate me!

Yes....I am a Vietnam veteran -Navy pilot!
Oops....I know now though that I should have not mentioned the pilot thing.
Soooo sorry!

 

[RCW]

Rodger - -

I've had this generator for years.

Was bought from Lowes (?) in January when we were out of power. Needed something quick to keep cellar of from freezing up. Wasn't an informed purchase. Was what I could get at the time.

Lived here 31 years. We were seldom out of power back then. Been much more frequent and for longer periods last 10 years.

It's run for multiple days many times, although I don't tend to run it overnight. It gets rest times.

Wild guess is it's got 500 hours since new???? Truly a wild guess, as it can run 48-72 hours in a single outage. We've been out many times in those years.

I did investigate the quality of generator output years ago, when I didn't have 240v in my garage.

Was looking to drive a welder. Deemed it not advisable. Have since put in a couple 240v outlets for same.

Thanks.

 

[Fordtech86]

I have BS degrees in both Forestry and Forest Biology.

You certainly know there are plenty of squirrels in the forest then