80 foot trench for propane line

[torch]

At the risk of introducing domestic politics into the thread, using your backhoe helps justify the purchase to She Who Must Be Obeyed. Could even break down resistance to future purchases. That's worth the cost of admission right there... <lol>

 

[Flintknapper]

I put a 1000 gal tank in for my backup generator. Remember they only fill to 70% to allow for expansion. So 700 gallons. If your tank is supplying other heaters or devices consider your consumption.

if you are purchasing a tank you might want to consider what the cost is for a larger tank vs multiple smaller tanks. Especially if you can sell your smaller tanks on location.

I bought my house/property with a 250 gal in place and sold it back to the propane company for a $550 credit. YMMV.

Maybe it varies by location, but in my area tanks can be filled to 80%, so my 250 gallon tank can hold 200 gallons. However my 24Kw generator when running at full load will use nearly 4 gph. Our home is all electric. Normally, we would be running closer to half load (or about 2.5 gph) , but there are situations in the winter time where full load is required.

In fact, I have a Load Shedding Switch to disable 1/2 of the heat strips because of the huge draw they have on the unit. I can override that if need be and manually 'manage' what I want to run at the breaker panel, but my unit is set up to run Whole House if needed.

All that said to point out that fuel consumption can be quite high. So each person needs to consider for what purpose you use/need your generator. IF only for convenience sake, for short term outages then a smaller tank might be OK. But IF you have elderly, infirmed, run a business from your home or experience long term outages (days) then you need to have a sufficiently large tank.

In my situation (best case scenario....1/2 load) I could run my genset about 3 days before needing to refill the tank (with a 250 gallon tank). So do your homework folks. You don't want have to re-do anything. ONE installation done to meet your worst expected needs is the way to go (finances permitting).

 

[BAP]

You have the backhoe already, so use it. It’s going to be pretty hard to get the required 6” of sand in a very narrow trench and get it level in the bottom of it for your pipe.

 

[Flintknapper]

You have the backhoe already, so use it. It’s going to be pretty hard to get the required 6” of sand in a very narrow trench and get it level in the bottom of it for your pipe.

I would think it would be equally difficult to accurately/uniformly dig to a specified depth with a backhoe?

With a trencher the depth is set and simply follows the contour of the landscape.

With a fairly narrow trench 4"-6" you could quickly shovel in sand and use a hoe to pull it around or even fashion a makeshift 'screed' to level it out.

But there is something to be said for using the equipment you already have I suppose. Surely there won't be an inspector with a depth gauge or transit level shooting it in (at least not where I live).

OP could probably have it all done by the time all of us are finished with our contributions....hah!

But this is good fodder for those contemplating doing the same in the future.

 

[Flintknapper]

At the risk of introducing domestic politics into the thread, using your backhoe helps justify the purchase to She Who Must Be Obeyed. Could even break down resistance to future purchases. That's worth the cost of admission right there... <lol>

You know that COULD be a valid consideration if handled correctly.

Right Way:
"Honey that backhoe attachment really came in handy digging the trench we needed. I didn't have to rent any additional equipment, got some valuable experience operating the backhoe and didn't have to do anything to physically hurt myself. I think we should go out to dinner tonight someplace nice, you pick"

Wrong Way:
" Woman.....you need to get yourself back in the house and let ME take of this!"


Summary:

While the 'Right Way' might be an expensive appeasement and possibly set a precedent (in her mind) for future purchases, it is still preferable to the likely outcome of choosing the 'Wrong Way'. Especially if She knows how to use the backhoe. They might never find your body.

 

[dirtydeed]

Agree with Flint on consumption. I was told that I can expect roughly 6-7 days on my 500 gal tank with my 22 KW gen set. I have a propane fired furnace, but I don't use it. I don't run anything else on the propane.

 

[torch]

Especially if She knows how to use the backhoe. They might never find your body.

<ROFLMAO>

 

[GeoHorn]

There is no requirement for re-testing residential propane storage tanks in my state. My 500 gal tank was made in 1950 and as long as the mfr’s data-tag is readable…that’s all which is required.
However, at my propane dealers suggestion, I did replace the regulator about 10 years ago just for his happiness……not for any other reason. ($45)

Portable tanks are req’d to be retested every few years. (The Airstream forum pointed out that a cheap set of metal stamps are sold at HF, and I can attest that they work just fine.). One thing that T SC is actually cheaper on is propane-refills. They beat all the small propane dealers in my area by 20-cents/gal or more.

 

[My Barn]

GeoHorn...Your right about Chinese black iron pipe. It was a joy after it, to stop the leaks. I went with in barn for two reasons...One was mice and other in case something hits it.
Just so you that was +30 years ago. I put in tee at the tank with shut off. I was heating the house and our greenhouse and barn.

 

[racerboy]

My generator is already up and running (when needed). It came with the house when I bought it back in 2016. The existing 100 gal tank is on lease from the propane co. I don’t think this particular co. sells the tanks. They only lease them because then you have to buy the propane from them. I did call another local propane co. and they were the opposite (at least for the 100 gal tanks) and did not lease them, but only sold them. I think they were around $2300 per tank. . Not sure if that is the going rate, or just the NJ rate.

 

[D2Cat]

There is no requirement for re-testing residential propane storage tanks in my state. My 500 gal tank was made in 1950 and as long as the mfr’s data-tag is readable…that’s all which is required.
However, at my propane dealers suggestion, I did replace the regulator about 10 years ago just for his happiness……not for any other reason. ($45)

Portable tanks are req’d to be retested every few years. (The Airstream forum pointed out that a cheap set of metal stamps are sold at HF, and I can attest that they work just fine.). One thing that T SC is actually cheaper on is propane-refills. They beat all the small propane dealers in my area by 20-cents/gal or more.

Here the tank is required to be inspected whenever a new supplier is used. They typically don't charge the homeowner if the have just signed a contract. They log pressures at each regulator, check pop off valve, etc. and log it with homeowner's signature on paperwork.

 

[Geezer3d]

I dug a 650 foot ditch to bury underground cable to my house with a backhoe. The requirements were the same as yours, at least 24 inches deep and at least 6 inches of sand. The soil conditions sound about the same as yours, large rocks mixed with gravel. I am in the Catskills. I doubt that you are going to be able to dig a narrow ditch regardless of what tool you use because of the rocks.

If you are doing this to run a generator, then you might want to consider placing the generator closer to the fuel supply and bury a cable from the generator to the house. That would keep the noise from the generator further away.

Also, I believe that if you are using 100 gallon or smaller tanks, code allows you to place them near the house if you want to. Larger, more permanent installations require distance from the building.

 

[D2Cat]

With any working room at all, putting sand in an 80' trench wouldn't take long. You have sand delivered in bulk and in a pile nearby. Use tractor loader to scoop and take to trench. Be parallel to trench and dump 8"-10" in, move over 4/5 feet and repeat. Five dumps and you half way done. Use a hoe to level out!

 

[GreensvilleJay]

if you build/install a 'chute' 2" less than width of trench ,to your bucket, you can fill very fast and accurately (hint... drive backward helps ! )

 

[The Evil Twin]

My generator is already up and running (when needed). It came with the house when I bought it back in 2016. The existing 100 gal tank is on lease from the propane co. I don’t think this particular co. sells the tanks. They only lease them because then you have to buy the propane from them. I did call another local propane co. and they were the opposite (at least for the 100 gal tanks) and did not lease them, but only sold them. I think they were around $2300 per tank. . Not sure if that is the going rate, or just the NJ rate.

That's the reason we kept the leased tank. The going rate for LP doesn't vary enough between the local suppliers to offset the cost of a new 500 gal tank to buy. Ours is also underground. Which adds to the cost I'd have to eat.

 

[Henro]

I would think it would be equally difficult to accurately/uniformly dig to a specified depth with a backhoe?

Not really. What I do is wrap some colored tape around the stick, after measuring up from the bucket teeth when the bucket is extended fully. This gives me a visual reference and I can check depth easily as I dig and keep the bottom pretty accurate.

AND anyway, the sand will be leveled and make up for any minor differences...

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I don’t know why you suggest “black iron pipe”… That’s pure B.S. that black iron is required for propane or nat. gas.
The REASON it is used for gas is it is easily identifiable as opposed to water pipes. However these days few use galvanized for water anymore…. they use Pex or pvc.

It is B.S. that galvanized pipe is not appropriate for propane/nat-gas… and I have personally had to replace black iron pipe TWICE …because it is made in china these days and CORRODES quickly and perforates.…in LESS THAN FIVE YEARS… I got pics if you aren’t convinced.

If you use iron pipe…use GALVANIZED pipe to avoid corrosion and having to replace it in your lifetime.

It's illegal to use Galvanized pipe for Propane or natural gas.
The theory is that galvanization can flake off and plug valves and orifices'.

China black pipe is also illegal for use in any system in the US.

You also can not bury black or galvanized pipe for gas use buy code.

 

[My Barn]

It's illegal to use Galvanized pipe for Propane or natural gas.
The theory is that galvanization can flake off and plug valves and orifices'.

China black pipe is also illegal for use in any system in the US.

You also can not bury black or galvanized pipe for gas use buy code.

Well it may be illegal (Blk pipe) but that's what the big box stores sell...I used copper under ground, not today PEX is cheaper.

 

[GeoHorn]

It's illegal to use Galvanized pipe for Propane or natural gas.
The theory is that galvanization can flake off and plug valves and orifices'.

China black pipe is also illegal for use in any system in the US.

You also can not bury black or galvanized pipe for gas use buy code.

Begging to differ Wolfman, That is not universally true.. Galvanized pipe was discouraged when butane was popular (pre-1950) but with modern propane refining it is not illegal EXCEPT IN CERTAIN LOCALES which have retained the old rules.

My 1950s home had galvanized water and black-iron propane. The black-iron which was direct-buried developed leaks after 60 years and it was replaced with new black iron….. unfortunately the plumber (me) used chineese black iron from Home Depot and it completely DISINTEGRATED dumping over a 1000 gals of propane over a 6-month period before it was found out where the leaks were.… ALL the ”new” chineese black iron looked like Swiss-Cheese in only 5 years.

It was all replaced with galvanized per the code here in my county. (They wanted to use copper but galvanized or black iron pipe is allowed. Although ‘code’ is not required at my place outside the city limits…the hired plumber follows it wherever he works.) For addt’l insurance I had the plumber (hired) coat the new (galvanized) pipe with tar prior to covering the trench.

Can You Use Galvanized Pipe For Propane? (Find Out Now!)

Installing a propane heating system is not a simple process.You need to hire a professional propane company, figure out where the propane tank will be installed, and choose the type of piping to be used for the line.There are many things to consider.

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[racerboy]

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Copper gas line for natural gas and propane gas. Readi-Protector polyethylene coated coil.

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