Have you actually purchased PVC lately? Even sand is expensive here because it has to be hauled 40 miles to get here.
80 foot trench for propane line
- Thread starter racerboy
- Start date
I'd rent a trencher if you will go that deep, but I guess it depends on how much time you have, but you'll also need to fill it back in.
I already had a mini-excavator on property when we were remodeling before moving in. So, I had him dig the ditch, and fill it back in after the line was put in.
Other things to note, the person who put my propane line in added warning tape. Also, if you go 80 ft, you'll likely need a different regulator than most tanks come with to make that distance.
Do shop around for your propane provider. In my area at least, you can pay twice the price of the same product. Also, it's easier than you might think to change providers even when you use their tank. The new company just transfers the propane to the new tank. Usually, they'l wave the rental fee.
I already had a mini-excavator on property when we were remodeling before moving in. So, I had him dig the ditch, and fill it back in after the line was put in.
Other things to note, the person who put my propane line in added warning tape. Also, if you go 80 ft, you'll likely need a different regulator than most tanks come with to make that distance.
Do shop around for your propane provider. In my area at least, you can pay twice the price of the same product. Also, it's easier than you might think to change providers even when you use their tank. The new company just transfers the propane to the new tank. Usually, they'l wave the rental fee.
lol, The company I work for is a plumbing / hvac distributor. I haven't bought any lately but we sure have sold a boatload
2" pvc is about $2 / ft and 1-1/4" is about $1.50
There is a pvc pipe product call FOAMCORE that is about 25% less expensive. I don't know if you could use it (code wise) for conduit for high voltage (110/230) lines but I'm sure it would work fine for low voltage applications.
dirtydeed
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Well I used my backhoe....By the time you pick-up and return the Trencher. Plus you have backhoe. While I have a ditch open I ran LP, electric and water lines. Water/electrical where from our basement a backhoe let me get closer. I'm guessing it was 150-160' to our barn?
Good luck on your project.
Good luck on your project.
Jchonline
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Ya I didnt exactly remember the material, thanks for clarifying. Its flexible plastic type stuff
I live waay-out in the “country” and not subject to any codes (of which I am aware) … when I laid down an underground electrical line 100-feet out to a remote outlet for yard-light and RV-plug…. I used my grader-blade adjusted at an extreme angle …. and after three passes had a “deep V” …scraped.
I laid Direct-burial AWG-4-3 cable and then used the same blade to rake the dirt back over it…then ran the tractor wheels over it to pack it down. No need to rent or buy anything I didn’t already have.
I did afterwards fuss at myself for failing to think of laying some scrap sheet metal over the entire length before covering it up. (I have some 18’-long used R-panels I could have cut lengthwise and made an excellent protective cover in case someone later tries to dig that area.)
However I did put up warning-sign-posts every 20-ft all along that fence-line:
I laid Direct-burial AWG-4-3 cable and then used the same blade to rake the dirt back over it…then ran the tractor wheels over it to pack it down. No need to rent or buy anything I didn’t already have.
I did afterwards fuss at myself for failing to think of laying some scrap sheet metal over the entire length before covering it up. (I have some 18’-long used R-panels I could have cut lengthwise and made an excellent protective cover in case someone later tries to dig that area.)
However I did put up warning-sign-posts every 20-ft all along that fence-line:
Seems like a lot of warning signs over a span of just 100 feet! Of course you could be like me and need remindin' frequently! LOL
Hi everyone. Thanks so much for the awesome feedback. Here are some additional details.
- The propane co. told me the trench had to be 24" deep with 6" sand bed. I'm assuming, based on basic math, that code requires the line to be at least 18" deep.
- I did ask them if I could run black pipe, instead of the yellow-jacket copper, but they did not respond.
- They are sending the site technician back out here tomorrow. I guess they were not comfortable with accepting my measurements/photos via email, so I will let you know what they tell me.
- The lady at the propane co. also mentioned that the 100-gal tank for the generator (17KW) may not be big enough for a prolonged outage, and they might recommend adding another 100-gal tank for the generator
- I wonder if it would make sense to just get one of the big long tanks (not sure how many gallons) instead of having multiple 100-gal tanks. Any thoughts?
- Do I have to buy the pipe from them? If they tell me it has to be a certain size (1/2" or 3/4") can't i just order that myself? Based on this company's reputation, I'm pretty sure they are going to way overcharge for the pipe.
- When the site tech was here last week, he did mention something about needing an additional regulator if I wanted the tank to be beyond a certain distance. He actually discouraged me from adding a tank next to my existing one because he said they would have to tear up my paver patio to bury the pipe. That would shorten the distance by about 25 feet, but I'll just go the long route along the edge of the patio, so all I am digging up is the lawn.
- Someone asked about my soil. I live in northern NJ on top of a mountain of granite. I just had a 100" trench dug for a new well (that was about 8 feet deep) and they were pulling out boulders the size of my Toyota Forerunner. They left two of them sitting in my back yard and my B2601 cannot even budge the, So there is a lot of rocks in my soil.
dirtydeed
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If you have rocky soil, then the backhoe should do it for you. That's what I used.
I just had to re-dig mine this past summer due to a tent stake going thru my propane line. @ feet deep should be plenty (at least here in PA). Make sure that you get one of these vent hole plug protectors on your regulator (ask me how I know). It will save you lots of frustration by keeping the mud daubers from plugging the vent.
maxitrol vent protector (just get the correct size). You can find them cheaper from other suppliers...
I just had to re-dig mine this past summer due to a tent stake going thru my propane line. @ feet deep should be plenty (at least here in PA). Make sure that you get one of these vent hole plug protectors on your regulator (ask me how I know). It will save you lots of frustration by keeping the mud daubers from plugging the vent.
maxitrol vent protector (just get the correct size). You can find them cheaper from other suppliers...
Sand is cheap, unless you buy it in bags. Check on a delivery of a couple of tons and price out the rental of a trencher. I'm betting you'll spend a lot less on the sand than you think.
80' x 1' wide x 0.5' deep = 40 cubic feet, or about a yard and a half. FYI, a yard of sand or gravel is about a ton.
I've done a lot of trenching in clay, and a 12 inch bucket works fine. I doubt your talon will do a decent job.
80' x 1' wide x 0.5' deep = 40 cubic feet, or about a yard and a half. FYI, a yard of sand or gravel is about a ton.
I've done a lot of trenching in clay, and a 12 inch bucket works fine. I doubt your talon will do a decent job.
You do not have to buy the materials from them. Check your codes to see if it can be done in polythene gas pipe. It's the least expensive and easy to work with.
At 80' you should go with 3/4" line and two stage regulators. One primary at the tank drops it to 10 psi, then the second one near the generator will reduce to 11"wc (I can't remember exactly). I sized our 24kw at 70' and needed 3/4. It's better to be oversized. You don't want it starving at full load.
I didnt see you mention the gen set. That 17kw will probably eat 1.5 gph. So you'll be 2 days in when you need a fill. That's if it's 100% filled when the power goes out. 100 gal tanks are filled to 80 gallons or so. You want a bigger one. We had a 325 installed but also have gas appliances and heat. Even with that tank, I'll be calling for a top up if a major storm is forecasted and it's less than 60% full. I want to make sure we can go 4 days. 5 -6 if it's full. I would have gone 500 gallon if I could do it again.
Vent screens are a good thing. Don't need the fancy expensive blue ones. Just get a 1/4 (or 1/8") brass nipple or short pipe. Fill it with lightly packed stainless steel wool and you're good.
At 80' you should go with 3/4" line and two stage regulators. One primary at the tank drops it to 10 psi, then the second one near the generator will reduce to 11"wc (I can't remember exactly). I sized our 24kw at 70' and needed 3/4. It's better to be oversized. You don't want it starving at full load.
I didnt see you mention the gen set. That 17kw will probably eat 1.5 gph. So you'll be 2 days in when you need a fill. That's if it's 100% filled when the power goes out. 100 gal tanks are filled to 80 gallons or so. You want a bigger one. We had a 325 installed but also have gas appliances and heat. Even with that tank, I'll be calling for a top up if a major storm is forecasted and it's less than 60% full. I want to make sure we can go 4 days. 5 -6 if it's full. I would have gone 500 gallon if I could do it again.
Vent screens are a good thing. Don't need the fancy expensive blue ones. Just get a 1/4 (or 1/8") brass nipple or short pipe. Fill it with lightly packed stainless steel wool and you're good.
ok thanks. I’ll ask propane site tech tomorrow about the bigger tank. Can I have one big tank (say 500 gal) feed the generator, my range and a shop heater, or should I keep the generator propane supply completely separate?
I'd try to go with a 500 gal tank. Buy it if possible, you rent it and you're obligated to purchase propane from them. You own it, you can shop prices and purchase from whom ever you choose. And.... you will save money shopping prices.
Propane companies around here offer summer fill (in the middle of the summer) at discounted prices. They offer contract prices that need to be finalized by 1st of Oct. or so. After that, if you have no contract you get to pay the going price at the day of delivery!
Propane companies around here offer summer fill (in the middle of the summer) at discounted prices. They offer contract prices that need to be finalized by 1st of Oct. or so. After that, if you have no contract you get to pay the going price at the day of delivery!
I don’t know why you suggest “black iron pipe”… That’s pure B.S. that black iron is required for propane or nat. gas.
The REASON it is used for gas is it is easily identifiable as opposed to water pipes. However these days few use galvanized for water anymore…. they use Pex or pvc.
It is B.S. that galvanized pipe is not appropriate for propane/nat-gas… and I have personally had to replace black iron pipe TWICE …because it is made in china these days and CORRODES quickly and perforates.…in LESS THAN FIVE YEARS… I got pics if you aren’t convinced.
If you use iron pipe…use GALVANIZED pipe to avoid corrosion and having to replace it in your lifetime.
The REASON it is used for gas is it is easily identifiable as opposed to water pipes. However these days few use galvanized for water anymore…. they use Pex or pvc.
It is B.S. that galvanized pipe is not appropriate for propane/nat-gas… and I have personally had to replace black iron pipe TWICE …because it is made in china these days and CORRODES quickly and perforates.…in LESS THAN FIVE YEARS… I got pics if you aren’t convinced.
If you use iron pipe…use GALVANIZED pipe to avoid corrosion and having to replace it in your lifetime.
No real need to separate them. Multiple tanks, multiple levels to keep track of. So far, I'm happy with one. 500 or 320 is your pick. If you buy the tank, cost may factor in to that decision. Just remember if you buy it, you have to get it inspected/ tested every so often.
The only reason I wish we went 500 is because this area lost power for a week last winter. I prefer to be self sufficient for the duration. Other than that, we have used only about 15% from May till now. Winter will obviously consume more. If your shop heat is only on when you work in it then you may be fine with 320.
If you haven't purchased your generator yet, you might want to reconsider and go with diesel. I know that diesel is expensive, but it is a lot less expensive to run for a week than a propane generator.
As for GeoHorn's comment about black iron not being required, it is required when the propane is installed inside a building. On the outside, you can use the yellow-jacketed copper tubing. Years ago, they allowed the use of unions on black iron pipe, and today, you use a special pipe nipple that has a right thread and left-hand thread at the other end, along with the special couplers. When you screw it in, it will connect two iron pipes together. The rules for installing gas piping in homes have radically changed in the past 10 years. Some of the new rules are a result of code changes, and others are being dictated by the propane industry safety codes that are enforced by the propane dealers.
As for GeoHorn's comment about black iron not being required, it is required when the propane is installed inside a building. On the outside, you can use the yellow-jacketed copper tubing. Years ago, they allowed the use of unions on black iron pipe, and today, you use a special pipe nipple that has a right thread and left-hand thread at the other end, along with the special couplers. When you screw it in, it will connect two iron pipes together. The rules for installing gas piping in homes have radically changed in the past 10 years. Some of the new rules are a result of code changes, and others are being dictated by the propane industry safety codes that are enforced by the propane dealers.
I put a 1000 gal tank in for my backup generator. Remember they only fill to 70% to allow for expansion. So 700 gallons. If your tank is supplying other heaters or devices consider your consumption.
if you are purchasing a tank you might want to consider what the cost is for a larger tank vs multiple smaller tanks. Especially if you can sell your smaller tanks on location.
I bought my house/property with a 250 gal in place and sold it back to the propane company for a $550 credit. YMMV.
if you are purchasing a tank you might want to consider what the cost is for a larger tank vs multiple smaller tanks. Especially if you can sell your smaller tanks on location.
I bought my house/property with a 250 gal in place and sold it back to the propane company for a $550 credit. YMMV.