Early 80s L275DT Cold Start

[ve9aa]

That's probably what my dad meant, come to think of it. I have a multimeter, where do I attach the lead? Also I'm close but not totally sure where the glow plugs are in my original pic of the engine

One other fella was helping you with that....you musta missed his pictures he took for you, some posts back.
Think of them sorta as "skinny spark plugs" connected by a fat wire (bus bar).
Most likely they are in parallel. (which will make individual readings impossible until you unhook each one)

super super easy to check them. See pix the other guys posted for you.

You'll want them each at a couple Ohms I suppose. Touch your meter leads together first to see how much resistance THEY have. It'll vary per meter, how much battery is left in the meter and the state of the leads themselves. Typically (a broad statement to be sure) you'll see 0.3-1.3 of resistance with the meter leads.
Whatever it is, subtract that from the resistance of the glow plugs.

Unhook the bus bar (wire) from the glow plugs....Touch one meter lead to the engine in a nice clean spot.
Touch the other end to the nut where you just unhooked the bus bar. If you see (for example) 1.5Ohms, and your meter-leads-alone where 0.5Ohms, then your glow plug read 1Ohm and is presumed good.

If you see O/L (over load) on your meter, or just an impossibly high reading (in the Meg Ohm range) then your glow plug is open (burned out or broken) and thus NFG.

Move onto the next glow plug.

AS a note. I don't think even on a summers day my TG1860 (700cc diesel) would start w/o glow plugs.
EXTRA EDIT: You can possibly save yourself a tiny amount of work and test all glow plugs at once by leaving the bus bar connected.
If all 3 in parallel read impossibly high (open) then all 3 are no good.
Myself, if 1 of 3 or even 2 of 3 are bad, at this age I'd likely replace all 3 and keep the good one for an emergency spare.

My money is on Dad not wanting to monkey with them, they burned out and he was told by someone "just use ether" (bad advice)

I've been wrong before.
EXRTA EXTRA edit. If you don't understand parallel resistances completely, just test each GP individually, because you if you measure them all in parallel, see (for example 1.2Ohms) all that really tells you is at least ONE GP is still good......won't tell you if 1, 2 or 3 is good and won't tell you which one.

I'll leave my extra edit stand as it's been up for 30 minutes and is a good indicator if all 3 are bad.
(but that's really all it's good for....all bad or "at least one good", which is kinda not really what you're afer.

Oops!

 

[Russell King]

Just for more information about the dash and removal. There’s a flat panel dash and then the cowl underneath the dash. There are 4 screws holding the dash to the cowl (large and JIS like Phillip head) . If you can get the flat dash loose it has a slot to fit around the steering column.

You may be able to get it loosened enough to see behind it and see what wiring is there but it has a tachometer cable and other things to fight with to get it loose.

I always just take the steering wheel and then the whole cowl and dash off just because I think that is a little easier.

If you want to see any pictures of the back side of the dash let me know and I’ll post them since I just had it off earlier today.

If it was me trying to get it started I would just use the 10 gauge or a couple of smaller wires in parallel to jump from the positive battery terminal directly to a glow plug for 15 to thirty seconds and then remove the jumper wire and quickly get onto the tractor and try to crank it up.

It was about 95F yesterday and I had to use glow plugs to get my L185F to start

 

[forrest carver]

Just for more information about the dash and removal. There’s a flat panel dash and then the cowl underneath the dash. There are 4 screws holding the dash to the cowl (large and JIS like Phillip head) . If you can get the flat dash loose it has a slot to fit around the steering column.

You may be able to get it loosened enough to see behind it and see what wiring is there but it has a tachometer cable and other things to fight with to get it loose.

I always just take the steering wheel and then the whole cowl and dash off just because I think that is a little easier.

If you want to see any pictures of the back side of the dash let me know and I’ll post them since I just had it off earlier today.

If it was me trying to get it started I would just use the 10 gauge or a couple of smaller wires in parallel to jump from the positive battery terminal directly to a glow plug for 15 to thirty seconds and then remove the jumper wire and quickly get onto the tractor and try to crank it up.

It was about 95F yesterday and I had to use glow plugs to get my L185F to start

I think I'll try to get it started first and then worry about the dashboard and wiring when I get it home. My plan is to test the glow plugs with the multi meter per ve9aa's instructions. Assuming they are good, twist four 16ga wires together, or a 10ga if I find some, and connect to a glow plug (any?) for 15-30s and then bridge the solenoid

Assuming the glow plugs aren't good, I assume I need 3pcs part number 15521-65510. Do I need to go OEM here too?

I am blown away by the level of support on this forum. Thank you all so much for the help.

 

[TheOldHokie]

I think I'll try to get it started first and then worry about the dashboard and wiring when I get it home. My plan is to test the glow plugs with the multi meter per ve9aa's instructions. Assuming they are good, twist four 16ga wires together, or a 10ga if I find some, and connect to a glow plug (any?) for 15-30s and then bridge the solenoid

Assuming the glow plugs aren't good, I assume I need 3pcs part number 15521-65510. Do I need to go OEM here too?
View attachment 86617

I am blown away by the level of support on this forum. Thank you all so much for the help.

Current part number is 15521-65512 which crosses to NGK Y106V - roughly $10 each and available from a gadzillion sources. Messicks wants $15 each.

Dan

 

[ve9aa]

"... and connect to a glow plug (any?) for 15-30s ..."

If they all test good, yes, any. They are in parallel so they'll all heat up together if good. (once you wire them all back up.)

We're all waiting with baited breath, I am sure !

Good luck

 

[forrest carver]

Yes, I owe you guys a video of this thing chugging to life when it finally happens!

I can't find any glow plugs locally so I'll probably just order 3x from Messick's along with the main switch, in the highly likely event that they're all burned out. Probably a good time to get a JIS screwdriver, too...I already stripped out one of the side panel bolts

Any other "might as well" or "just in case" spares/items I should get at the same time that you can think of?

 

[forrest carver]

Regarding the main switch, I see the need for the OEM ignition ($45) but I could probably cheap out on the key ($6) instead of getting the ignition w/ key ($83)?

 

[Russell King]

About Messicks or local dealer (if there is one). Messicks will generally have somewhat lower prices but the shipping cost is high. The local dealer will look up the part number using the serial number of your tractor and order them and if you say that you’re not in a hurry they put it on a regular supply truck and get it in a week or two. If you ask them the will tell you what day you need to order the parts by to get them on the same week. That is FREE shipping but they offer faster shipping if needed but often don’t offer the free shipping option unless you ask.

Since you have a switch already wired for the starter just use a momentary push button switch (high amp) for the glow plugs. An auto parts store has them for starter circuits that will work and they may have some close to the real amp rate you need

 

[forrest carver]

Thanks for the advice. One final question before I head over, is there a nuclear option like aiming a heat gun into the air intake or on the engine itself?

Can I attach jumper cables from a running truck on the battery and just sit there cranking it 5 seconds on 5 second off until it heats up enough to fire up?

 

[forrest carver]

Well, that was a disappointing day. Could not get it going. I tried using a heat gun and cranked it for hours.

I'm sure the glow plugs are bad but the test was inconclusive. My meter was reading all over the place but most often "better than bad, worse than good" which doesn't make sense to me.

Ran a wire from the positive both to the glow plug indicator (it smoked a little initially) and directly to the glow plugs, nothing.

Removed the two rearmost glow plugs with struggle but can't remove the third one without an antimatter wrench so 2 will have to do.

Tried to bump start it via towing but the bucket was stuck tilted down. Is there a way to manipulate the bucket controls without the engine running, like a hand crank? We used jacks and dunnage, it was a PITA

Is bump starting even an option? Once we got in place to do it I realized I didn't know how and didn't want to break something. Also I'm just now realizing the glow plugs weren't even in place at that time.

Tried loading it in the trailer but it's slightly too wide and as mentioned, well above weight limit

As for the ignition, here's a better, but still bad, picture. As you can see, the lower terminal of the glow plug indicator leads to nothing, where is that supposed to go? Is it worth troubleshooting this or should I get a new wiring harness?

Sorry for the long post

 

[forrest carver]

Am I missing something simple? Even though it appears the wiring is faulty, do I need the key in a certain position? Does the clutch need to be in? Does the throttle need to be engaged?

 

[TheOldHokie]

Well, that was a disappointing day. Could not get it going. I tried using a heat gun and cranked it for hours.

I'm sure the glow plugs are bad but the test was inconclusive. My meter was reading all over the place but most often "better than bad, worse than good" which doesn't make sense to me.

Ran a wire from the positive both to the glow plug indicator (it smoked a little initially) and directly to the glow plugs, nothing.

Removed the two rearmost glow plugs with struggle but can't remove the third one without an antimatter wrench so 2 will have to do.

Tried to bump start it via towing but the bucket was stuck tilted down. Is there a way to manipulate the bucket controls without the engine running, like a hand crank? We used jacks and dunnage, it was a PITA

Is bump starting even an option? Once we got in place to do it I realized I didn't know how and didn't want to break something. Also I'm just now realizing the glow plugs weren't even in place at that time.

Tried loading it in the trailer but it's slightly too wide and as mentioned, well above weight limit

As for the ignition, here's a better, but still bad, picture. As you can see, the lower terminal of the glow plug indicator leads to nothing, where is that supposed to go? Is it worth troubleshooting this or should I get a new wiring harness?
View attachment 86646

Sorry for the long post

Sounds same as my B7200 - two of the plugs are "easy" to get to but the third is tough.

You don't need any electrical power beyond the starter to get it to run. It will run with the key in the off position.

Towing is not going to help.

I am assuming you are still using the old plugs. Does it spit black smoke when you crank it? If not it is not even firing.

Dan

 

[ve9aa]

Your post is confusing.

What did your Ohmmeter tell you about the plugs?

 

[forrest carver]

Sounds same as my B7200 - two of the plugs are "easy" to get to but the third is tough.

You don't need any electrical power beyond the starter to get it to run. It will run with the key in the off position.

Towing is not going to help.

I am assuming you are still using the old plugs. Does it spit black smoke when you crank it? If not it is not even firing.

Dan

Thanks. Tough, like impossible? How did you manage to get it?

It never spit black smoke when cranking, always gray

 

[forrest carver]

Your post is confusing.

What did your Ohmmeter tell you about the plugs?

I expected to see either infinity (blown) or very little resistance (good) but I was getting about 50Ohms on each plug

 

[ve9aa]

when you touched your meter leads together, did they show +/- 1 Ohm?

DOn't be insulted when I ask you this (please) but do you know the difference between 50 Ohms, 50k Ohms and 50 M Ohms?

50 Ohms seems like an odd number. (even "5" seems high) I am not an authority on GP's but have had them in previous cars (diesels) and in my other tractors I seem to recall they were very low resistance (1-3 Ohms or something....that's why you *NEED* to see how much your meter leads (red/black) read when touched together, as you're dealing with smalllll numbers.)

50 seems quite high. I=E/R....so (I) the current (if they were actually 50 Ohms) would be (if fed directly from your (we'll say) 12.5V battery......12.5/50......0.25 Amps (1/4 of an amp_)..kinda piddly.
P (power) = I^2 * R......P=0.25(squared) * 50 = 3.125 watts.

Kinda low. Not much heat there. And that's if fed with 12.5V...imagine if your GP indicator was working and that was stepped down to 9 or 10v....sum ting's wong.

I'd be inclined to believe the GP's should be a couple Ohms (each) and more like 50 or 100watts capacity.

Again, not an authority on GP's or TRactors but various qualifications and experience with electrical/electronics which I won't go into here.

Happy to be corrected by someone who knows more about tractors than I do.

 

[TheOldHokie]

when you touched your meter leads together, did they show +/- 1 Ohm?

DOn't be insulted when I ask you this (please) but do you know the difference between 50 Ohms, 50k Ohms and 50 M Ohms?

50 Ohms seems like an odd number. I am not an authority on GP's but have had them in previous cars (diesels) and in my other tractors I seem to recall they very low resistance (1-3 Ohms or something)

50 seems quite high. I=E/R....so the current (if they were actually 50 Ohms) would be (if fed directly from your (we'll say) 12.5V battery......12.5/50......0.25 Amps (1/4 of an amp_)
P ()power) = I^2 * R......P=0.25(squared) * 50 = 3.125 watts.

Kinda low.

I'd be inclined to believe the GP's should be a couple Ohms and more like 50 or 100watts.

Again, not an authority but various qualifications and experience with electrical/electronics.

Happy to be corrected by someone who knows more about tractors than I do.

You are pretty damn close. A brand new NGK Y103V straight out of the Kubota box measures .9 ohms. I will leave the power calculation to you

Dan

 

[forrest carver]

You won't insult me. Never underestimate my ability to completely misunderstand or have no knowledge of an entire concept.

My multimeter has those settings (x1, x10, x1k) and I assumed they were just multipliers. Because you were talking about low numbers like 1Ohm, I initially had it set to the 1x. It did give a tone on each plug though. I didn't think to measure anything else though

Speaking of misunderstanding...I had the positive lead of the multimeter on the threaded tip of the glow plug when it was installed, and the negative on a ground. I did not attach both leads to the plug like the pic above indicates

 

[ve9aa]

Assuming the 0.9Ohm is all GP (and not including meter leads) and you have (let's say) 10v at the GP due to the voltage drop at the dash mounted GP indicator wire made of (nichrome?) or whatever, you'll get:

I=E/R...I=10/0.9=11.111A
P=I(squared)R.....11.111(squared) * 0.9......111.1watts.

Ouchie, hot hot, don't touch. ;-)

Perfect for glow plugs !

p.s.-if these GP's were fed with 12.5V (instead of the <ahem> normal 10V (I am calling it 10 because I don't know if it's 10.5, 10 or maybe even 9.5 v) then they become 173.6 watts each....so you can see why GP's don't tend to last very long...that's an increase of something in the neighbourhood of 1.5x of their designed output

 

[TheOldHokie]

Assuming the 0.9Ohm is all GP (and not including meter leads) and you have (let's say) 10v at the GP due to the voltage drop at the dash mounted GP indicator wire made of (nichrome?) or whatever, you'll get:

I=E/R...I=10/0.9=11.111A
P=I(squared)R.....11.111(squared) * 0.9......111.1watts.

Ouchie, hot hot, don't touch. ;-)

Perfect for glow plugs !

Meter reads .2 ohms with leads shorted so if we believe all of that the plug is .7 ohm. I believe the 103 in the NGK part number indicates 10.3V. Using those numbers my arithmetic gets me very close to 150 watts. Nice round number

Dan