9-12,000 watt Portable Standby Generator Recommendations

[Freeheeler]

Probably not what you're looking for, but I went a different route. I got 2 small yamaha 2200 generators. light weight and easy to carry. They can be run in series for higher output, like running the A/C for the camper or running most of the house. As a single unit I can run one for the house and plug in freezer, fridge, lights, etc., and use the other one to run the mancave or the lake house, or let the neighbor borrow in a true emergency. Light enough to easily carry around or toss in the truck, strong enough (when run in series) to run most things. The price for 2 was about the same as the price single bigger, heavier 5000 unit.
Not as convenient as a dedicated hard wired house unit, but much more versatile and for me much more useful. In my area, the longest I've had to go without power was 40 hrs. Usually only 2-3 hrs.

 

[Biker1mike]

Against code .....yes!
"home owners insurance becomes null and void"......who says so?
If you injure a lineman you will be charged".....who says so?
Are you an electrical inspector, electrician, or a power company employee?

Home owner's agent made it very clear years ago that the company retains the right to void home owners policy for non permitted work or known unrepaired code violations.

Worked many down wires with FD and with the lineman. As part of their safety program given to FD the supervisor informed us that the unions and electric company will do their best to track down a generator that back fed a line. I forget the wording but basically they indicated that they consider back feeding the system to be an intention act to do bodily harm to the linemen. I took their word for it.

 

[Poohbear]

For our new house I'm building found at Costco a 22kw with 200 amp transfer switch for $5200. I'll hook to LP .It's a Honeywell But it's just a Generac with a different name tag. Paint the same, instructions are all worded Generac. Generac bought rights to use the name Honeywell
There is a manual interlock switch available for you guys that think hooking on & potentially back feeding the power lines is ok. You wire the interlock & connect gen to it. You must turn the switch isolating your house & genny from the power co. You must turn switch before gen power goes to house.. way cheaper than an auto transfer switch but still keeeps some unsuspecting utility worker from going to the promised land

 

[RCW]

I checked air filter. Clean as a whistle. Engine runs well and starts easily. But for a couple uses, engine has always had ethanol free gas. Always start with the simple stuff…..

Normal SOP is to shut gas off and let it run out of gas to carburetor before storage.

Hoping air filter was plugged up. Would explain my concern.

Need to get an ammeter and pull out the multimeter to do some diagnostics before I pull anything apart. Want to get a baseline.

 

[fried1765]

Home owner's agent made it very clear years ago that the company retains the right to void home owners policy for non permitted work or known unrepaired code violations.

Worked many down wires with FD and with the lineman. As part of their safety program given to FD the supervisor informed us that the unions and electric company will do their best to track down a generator that back fed a line. I forget the wording but basically they indicated that they consider back feeding the system to be an intention act to do bodily harm to the linemen. I took their word for it.

I have not done any "non permitted" work for generator use.
I use my 220v garage welder receptacle, or 220v dryer receptacle for back feeding.

I am not an attorney, but think it would be a very difficult case, to prove "intent" to "do bodily harm".

 

[RBsingl]

The correct term is reckless endangerment, as in recklessly engaging in conduct that creates a substantial risk of serious physical injury or death to another person.

The lineman, or family thereof, injured by stupid homeowner behavior will have little trouble making their point in a civil trial EVEN if there aren't additional charges by the relevant enforcement agency.

 

[dirtydeed]

I am not an attorney, but think it would be a very difficult case, to prove "intent" to "do bodily harm".

Evidently, you missed the point entirely. It's not about potential lawsuits. It's about the lineman who are out there in all kinds of weather trying to restore power to your home. I'm sure that their families would like them to make it back home as well.

I don't understand why people just can't do the right thing. $125 for an interlock plus the cost of the electrician if you can't do it yourself is money well spent. Interlocks also make it easy for the user to switch circuits when running on portable generator power.

 

[fried1765]

Evidently, you missed the point entirely. It's not about potential lawsuits. It's about the lineman who are out there in all kinds of weather trying to restore power to your home. I'm sure that their families would like them to make it back home as well.

I don't understand why people just can't do the right thing. $125 for an interlock plus the cost of the electrician if you can't do it yourself is money well spent. Interlocks also make it easy for the user to switch circuits when running on portable generator power.

The "point" is......that I actually do know how to correctly connect generator power!
I do not need any fool proof gadgetry to safely make the connection swap!

 

[Flintknapper]

I have not done any "non permitted" work for generator use.
I use my 220v garage welder receptacle, or 220v dryer receptacle for back feeding.

I am not an attorney, but think it would be a very difficult case, to prove "intent" to "do bodily harm".

It isn't about which receptacle you use to back-feed your panel. The danger of doing so....concerns not having a method to 'disconnect/isolate' the panel from your service line. IF you are doing so (we hope you are) then yes, it is safe to power the panel that way.

BUT...some folks don't know to do this or do it improperly. And with a large enough generator can inadvertently send power back down the service line. Remember.....the transformer at your pole works both ways it can be a step up or step down transformer. You can conceivably send thousands of volts down the line.

As to a potential law suit.....it is apparent you know little about the law with respect to how you might be charged and judged. You do NOT have to prove 'intent' to be convicted of many charges. Ultimately a 'jury' would decide the reasonableness of your actions. Ever seen what some what some juries come up with?

So the only 'POINT' that matters here is to be sure your electrical system is ISOLATED from the supply line when back-feeding a panel. It would be 'best' if that were accomplished using an 'approved' device to protect the end user from liability.

 

[William1]

Add a interlock to a service panel from the outlet you plan to feed from. Not only will it prevent back feeding, it could save your genset as well.
If your genset is running and you failed to isolate utility power, when restored it will power the generator, possibly destroying it.

 

[Biker1mike]

In my area it is illegal to back feed. I try not to pick which laws I want to obey.

 

[fried1765]

It isn't about which receptacle you use to back-feed your panel. The danger of doing so....concerns not having a method to 'disconnect/isolate' the panel from your service line. IF you are doing so (we hope you are) then yes, it is safe to power the panel that way.

BUT...some folks don't know to do this or do it improperly. And with a large enough generator can inadvertently send power back down the service line. Remember.....the transformer at your pole works both ways it can be a step up or step down transformer. You can conceivably send thousands of volts down the line.

As to a potential law suit.....it is apparent you know little about the law with respect to how you might be charged and judged. You do NOT have to prove 'intent' to be convicted of many charges. Ultimately a 'jury' would decide the reasonableness of your actions. Ever seen what some what some juries come up with?

So the only 'POINT' that matters here is to be sure your electrical system is ISOLATED from the supply line when back-feeding a panel. It would be 'best' if that were accomplished using an 'approved' device to protect the end user from liability.

I strongly suspect that I know a lot more about electricity than YOU think I do!

 

[BAP]

I strongly suspect that I know a lot more about electricity than YOU think I do!

But here you are promoting others to do something that is dangerous and illegal just because you think you know more and are better than others.

 

[Flintknapper]

I strongly suspect that I know a lot more about electricity than YOU think I do!

Sir, respectfully....I am NOT challenging your knowledge of how to safely back-feed your OWN residence.

I have only what you have written here to go on....and I submit it is incomplete (at best).

So I am, just adding some information for those who may not be familiar with the legality of doing so or the proper and important step(s) of isolating the system from your normal service. Nothing more.

Don't be so sensitive. We are just trying to be sure everyone understands what is involved and the potential hazards.

 

[fried1765]

But here you are promoting others to do something that is dangerous and illegal just because you think you know more and are better than others.

"you think you know more and are better than others" .........INSULTS ARE NOT APPRECIATED!

I am "promoting others to do something that is dangerous and illegal"?
BS!
I am promoting NOTHING!
Simply suggesting that there actually is another way to make the electrical transfer, .......though YOU, and others.... may not approve of that method!

 

[Magicman]

I have personally used a "suicide cord" many times to back feed and restore power, but I would never indicate that it is a "safe way to make an electrical transfer". Cheap yes, will it work yes, but it is neither safe nor smart.

 

[RCW]

OP here - said I was going to start with my current generator.

Got a clamp meter and line splitter from Amazon. $33 delivered in 36 hours.

Should allow me to get a baseline with existing generator. Can measure voltage and amperage outputs. Figured I’d use an electric space heater as the Guinea pig.

Used it on a fan in the house and got 120.5 VAC and 0.5 amps, which almost matches data label for the fan at 0.6A.

Will try the genny tomorrow.

 

[RCW]

While somewhat distracting, the banter regarding generator transfer has been helpful.

I’m very much an electrical novice, but have done some electrical work and have a basic understanding.

Several years ago I put a sub panel in my garage with 2-220v outlets. One welder and one air compressor.

Also thought one could be used to back feed if needed.

Have never used them for the purpose, as I could run cords with my 5,500 generator.

 

[RBsingl]

A transfer switch or an interlock system will protect the linemen and your generator from a bad occurrence if you or someone else makes a mistake.

A point many people miss is these safety systems are there to provide protection when someone forgets or makes a mistake and NOBODY is immune to making a mistake. Problems also occur if another family member has to try to step in and get the system running instead of the "expert" who set it up originally.

If there is a major outage and you accidentally connect your generator to the line, it is just going to trip the breaker. But if it is a limited outage (only your house due to the service line from the stepdown transformer to your home or a small outage involving a couple of neighbors with generators who have properly disconnected their house from the line while running on generator power) then you will be able to energize what is left of the line and the unsuspecting linemen who has properly opened the switch on the line branch and doesn't expect the customer end to be "hot".

And if your generator is on and connected to the line when the power company restores power, your generator is probably going to be toast because it will try to instantly synchronize itself to the line frequency. I saw a video years ago showing how to properly synchronize generators to bring them on line one by one using a scope to see when the generator waiting to come on was perfectly in phase with the line. The video also showed what happened with an out of phase hot connect and the DD 8V71 prime mover sheared its very large crankshaft when the generator end was forced into sync.

So spend the small amount of money for easy a transfer switch or the proper interlock main breaker that prevents the line and generator from being simultaneously connected.

Rodger

 

[fried1765]

A transfer switch or an interlock system will protect the linemen and your generator from a bad occurrence if you or someone else makes a mistake.

A point many people miss is these safety systems are there to provide protection when someone forgets or makes a mistake and NOBODY is immune to making a mistake. Problems also occur if another family member has to try to step in and get the system running instead of the "expert" who set it up originally.

If there is a major outage and you accidentally connect your generator to the line, it is just going to trip the breaker. But if it is a limited outage (only your house due to the service line from the stepdown transformer to your home or a small outage involving a couple of neighbors with generators who have properly disconnected their house from the line while running on generator power) then you will be able to energize what is left of the line and the unsuspecting linemen who has properly opened the switch on the line branch and doesn't expect the customer end to be "hot".

And if your generator is on and connected to the line when the power company restores power, your generator is probably going to be toast because it will try to instantly synchronize itself to the line frequency. I saw a video years ago showing how to properly synchronize generators to bring them on line one by one using a scope to see when the generator waiting to come on was perfectly in phase with the line. The video also showed what happened with an out of phase hot connect and the DD 8V71 prime mover sheared its very large crankshaft when the generator end was forced into sync.

So spend the small amount of money for easy a transfer switch or the proper interlock main breaker that prevents the line and generator from being simultaneously connected.

Rodger

Your comments are well taken.
Anybody could make a mistake, in the transportation world they are called accidents!
That said:
I have over 30,000 hours of pilot time, including aircraft carrier landings.
When people's lives depended on me I NEVER made a mistake!
I am not about to start making safety related mistakes now!

I have a check list attached to my generator, and a duplicate check list attached to the service entrance box.
I lived by checklists for 39 years of flying.
Checklists kept ME alive!

There are no fancy interconnect/disconnect switches to protect a pilot from screw-ups!
He/she must have a 100% fully functional brain, and follow checklists at all times!