Fuel prices

[North Idaho Wolfman]

He's something to try and wrap you heads around.
A lot of electric is generated Via fossil fuel, directly or indirectly.
Yet it takes a lot of electric to make that fossil fuel into a useable product!

Fossil fuel use in generating electricity is generally very efficient, and very low controlled emissions byproducts.
Fossil fuel use in automobile use is generally Inefficient and produces a lot of emissions byproducts.
So eliminating using fossil fuels in automobiles would help clean up emissions byproducts.

 

[lynnmor]

He's something to try and wrap you heads around.
A lot of electric is generated Via fossil fuel, directly or indirectly.
Yet it takes a lot of electric to make that fossil fuel into a useable product!

Fossil fuel use in generating electricity is generally very efficient, and very low controlled emissions byproducts.
Fossil fuel use in automobile use is generally Inefficient and produces a lot of emissions byproducts.
So eliminating using fossil fuels in automobiles would help clean up emissions byproducts.

Just be sure that you consider the considerable amount of loss in the transmission of electricity. Also think about the land impacted with those transmission lines. Now come up with ways to deal with the sludge build up behind the dams, the nuclear waste and power loss when not being consumed.

 

[aaluck]

Have to disagree unless you can tell us where the power necessary to recharge the $$$$ batteries will come from, where is the infrastructure, and WHO is going to pay for the tremendous cost to dispose of the used up batteries ?

I don't think we disagree at all. In fact, that was my whole point--we do not have the infrastructure anywhere near ready.

My point is very similar to what you are saying...we are not ready. I have no doubt we will be ready at some point, but not now. I believe that the battery technology will drastically improve over the years--thnik back to the old cel phone batteries size and capacity. Now a tiny battery can last for 3 times as long AND charge 3 times faster.

In the USA, it's going to cost a MINIMUM of 5 BILLION bucks to install +-940 charging stations on the Interstates.

Great... we do not need the government for that--way too many folks think the government is the answer to everything. Who will pay for it? The same folks that built gas stations around the entire country. Why? because they will make money, just like they do now on gas, snacks, soda and beer. In 20 years I will bet that a full battery charge will take 10 minutes or less--about the same time as filling up.

 

[Ridelght]

I don't think we disagree at all. In fact, that was my whole point--we do not have the infrastructure anywhere near ready.

My point is very similar to what you are saying...we are not ready. I have no doubt we will be ready at some point, but not now. I believe that the battery technology will drastically improve over the years--thnik back to the old cel phone batteries size and capacity. Now a tiny battery can last for 3 times as long AND charge 3 times faster.

Great... we do not need the government for that--way too many folks think the government is the answer to everything. Who will pay for it? The same folks that built gas stations around the entire country. Why? because they will make money, just like they do now on gas, snacks, soda and beer. In 20 years I will bet that a full battery charge will take 10 minutes or less--about the same time as filling up.

It appears reading the posts most people dont thin

It is amazing how the media and government can plant a seed and watch the people scramble after the fruit thinking they must. The whole EV scam is just a way of leading the people in a direction they may not want to go. Follow along, but don’t complain when you finally wake up.

as a Kid I saw these 2 squirrels by the neighbors lake. Chasing each other around over something I assume was a nut. Then I saw 2 redtail Hawks circling...soon both squirrels were gone.
I am reminded of that often with the news about pretty much everything we argue over. may need to look for Hawks sometimes before both sides get shushed.

 

[JWool]

What is the enviro impact of mining and shipping Lithium, Nichol and Cobalt?
Most are minerals that are from other countries which cause for relying on other countries again, like semiconductors.

Then take the amounts of the minerals mined today compared to what would be needed to sustain all electric vehicles.
Might even be enviromental impacts of disposal of spent batteries.

I am not against electric, just not to sure being forced into it premature is going to go very smooth and with out other unforseen challenges and cost.

 

[aaluck]

I am not against electric, just not to sure being forced into it premature is going to go very smooth and with out other unforseen challenges and cost.

Exactly. This is the issue.

 

[Ridelght]

What is the enviro impact of mining and shipping Lithium, Nichol and Cobalt?
Most are minerals that are from other countries which cause for relying on other countries again, like semiconductors.

Then take the amounts of the minerals mined today compared to what would be needed to sustain all electric vehicles.
Might even be enviromental impacts of disposal of spent batteries.

I am not against electric, just not to sure being forced into it premature is going to go very smooth and with out other unforseen challenges and cost.

I'm sure the mining equipment will be diesel powered. I'm not against electric, I'm against being held hostage with prices to get it pushed through. Especially when its not even sustainable yet.

 

[Deleted member 47704]

re: Electric cars are the FUTURE, no doubt

Have to disagree unless you can tell us where the power necessary to recharge the $$$$ batteries will come from, where is the infrastructure, and WHO is going to pay for the tremendous cost to dispose of the used up batteries ?
One ,simple example...
In the USA, it's going to cost a MINIMUM of 5 BILLION bucks to install +-940 charging stations on the Interstates. No posting how many jacks per station and no one ever posts REAL time to recharge their EVs. No one every puts in writing the cost to add a 100 service to EVERY house in North America AND the cost to get the power TO those houses, and of course ,um, WHERE are the electrons coming from to power those home charging stations. Pie in the sky.. EVs in every driveway, cept where Winter rears it's cold,ugly head.
I get daily updates about the 'tech', some interesting like needing liquid cooled hoses NOT simple wires to at the chargers. Everyone will pay high prices as we get 100% into 'time of use' smart meters where rates are based on the clock, and 'off peak' time slots will be reduced(already have here in Ontario BTW).

 

[RCW]

For what it's worth, my electricity supply charge went from $0.035/kwH to $0.08/kwH in 90 days.

My delivery cost went from about $0.03 to $0.05 in the last 30 days.

Anyway you slice it, that's double.....

 

[DustyRusty]

Are exhaust driven turbocharged engines more efficient than naturally aspirated engines?

Chevrolet started producing exhaust-driven turbocharged engines in 1962 with the Chevrolet Corvair Monza Spyder. I have 2 of them, 1 coupe and 1 convertible. Great on power, weak on fuel economy.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

re: In 20 years I will bet that a full battery charge will take 10 minutes or less--about the same time as filling up.

That tech exist now, in the lab, though they use the 80% charge criteria ( battery still has 20% left when it gets plugged in), so only need 80kWh to charge up a 100 kWh battery pack. The 'technical hurdles' arethe high voltages and current needed to QUICKLY recharge the battery. A heckuva lot of HEAT is generated/wasted in the power transfer,so getting a tenth of a percent better efficiency reduces power losses ( though customer will pay for that as well). Generally speaking batteries like a 'low and slow' charge NOT a 'ram it down your throat' charge. Problem is people don't want to wait more than 10 minutes for a 'fillup'.

The other issue is capacity of the batteries. compared to gas burners, NO EV has the range a car does and NONE have the payload ability either. EVs can /should be used in 'city settings' ,like postal deliveries or cityhall departments. Anyone know if USPS uses EVs ? Canda Post doesn't.

 

[JWool]

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/03/the-dirty-secret-of-electric-vehicles/

 

[Daferris]

The USPS is currently ordering a ton of the next gen postal vans. However despite the inspector generals report that the EV version of the van has a much lower life cycle cost even factoring in a battery replacement at 10 years. The Postmaster general is resisting getting them.

On a real world side note I have a 2017 Chevrolet Volt (technically an extended range electric car since it has a gas motor to work as a genset). I buy gas pretty much only when I go to the race tracks to run the Timing & Scoring in May to August. I would have to look at the spreadsheet but last year (2021) it was less than 40 gallons of gas for the year. The electricity costs me the equivalent of $1.25 a gallon if it were gas.
You all can gripe and piss and moan about gas prices I'll just keep driving and putting the money I save in the bank.
Oh an on the issue of electric cars cost too much I bought mine as a used demo with 3,700 miles on it and got for $25k after the factory rebate (and before my GM card earnings and the Federal tax credit).
Yes I can't tow the tractor or the race car with it but it's my daily driver. It lets me leave the F350 in the barn for when I need it and leaves me with money to play with my toys rather than sending my money to the oil companies.

Last point... With an electric car you can put up a windmill charger or a solar array to generate your own electricity. Even if i had my own oil well I would not have the facility to refine the oil to gas or diesel.
Yes it would cost to put up a solar array but they pay for themselves over 10 years +- Faster if you you use your tractor to install a array longer if you just write a check

 

[Daferris]

This site stopped works a year or two ago because OnStar stopped allowing the data to be aggregated.
But it gives you a bit of an idea on the life of batteries in the real world.

 

[Daferris]

This one is for the pure EV Chevrolet Bolt... (https://www.voltstats.net/boltev/)

 

[Ridelght]

This one is for the pure EV Chevrolet Bolt... (https://www.voltstats.net/boltev/)
View attachment 77113

Drought is stressing California’s power grid

Hydroelectricity generation is way down.

www.theverge.com

Last July.....are your race cars electric ? Do they even make the Volt anymore ? the Yugo of electric cars. Its the Bolt now if im correct.
Glad you like yours.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

re: With an electric car you can put up a windmill charger or a solar array to generate your own electricity.
not feasible or cost effective in southern Ontario, solar is LOUSY in 'winter' here,

ok, your Volt has a 15 to 20kWh battery pack. Curious, How did you measure power/time to recharge ?

Yours is a hybrid and NOT what 'they' are pushing. Interesting that you still have a gas powered truck, again NOT what 'they' want. The Ford F150 has a 100KwH battery in it(basic model) 5X the capacity of your BUT it won't go 250 real world miles. it does however STOP driving when the battery gets low, unlike Teslas.

 

[Deleted member 47704]

Drought is stressing California’s power grid

Hydroelectricity generation is way down.

www.theverge.com

Last July.....are your race cars electric ? Do they even make the Volt anymore ? the Yugo of electric cars. Its the Bolt now if im correct.
Glad you like yours.

Look up Formula E

 

[Ridelght]

Look up Formula E

Very interesting all cars have 335 bhp OR 23 KW, all overseas and Mahindra has a team. Id still bet this poster does not have an electric formula E car. saw a bumper sticker today, " I miss the cheap gas and mean tweets "

 

[GreensvilleJay]

The AOC post is funny but...... you can plug a UPS into itself and it'll run !

re: formula E 'Mighty Planes' episode on what's involved in flying them cars to the races is very interesting ! Hate to have to pay the fuel bill for the plane though !!