BT600 hydraulic line sizes and problems

[TheOldHokie]

Fun, Dan? I'm glad to hear it. For me...a bit frustrating, but I'll come around before long. I appreciate that you're willing to stick with this.

It's too dark in the garage to get pictures today...storm is upon us for now. But, I did come upon a couple of other things. I bought some of the female caps and male plugs to put in place when I've removed hoses...to keep them clean and keep fluid from getting all over the place.

So, I've measured those...female cap is 1/2" ID; male plug is 17/32". I've taken a picture of that and maybe it will tell something. In looking at the chart at DHH in the thread guide section and those sizes don't seem to fit together. Here's the picture with a similar hose and fitting, the stop fluid bolt and the fluid cap with the caliper showing 1/2".

View attachment 76998

TG

I can see we need to talk about measuring threads. Thread sizes are given as the size of the OD on the male component - called the thread major diameter. In that picture you are measuring the inside diameter of a female thread. That will be the diameter of the root on a male thread = called the minor or root diameter. The root diameter will always be 2 times the thread depth smaller than the major diameter. In this case I think we are looking at a JIC-6 male fitting (based on the conical end) with a major diameter of 9/16 (,562) and a JIC-6 cap with a root diameter of .495. Assuming the swivel on the hose is also JIC it should have the same ID as the cap.

And JFYI - the female ID numbers given in the DHH thread chart are actually the pitch diameters which is yet another specification that falls in between the major and minor diameters. Online charts need to be taken with a large grain of salt, Here is my reference data - fvery reliable and chock full of all sorts of "interesting information.".

Dan

 

[TheOldHokie]

This is saying that you posted, TheOldHokie, but no reply is showing...only my post. Are you over it?

I hate this damn interface!!! My post is one up.

 

[Tractor Gal]

I hate this damn interface!!! My post is one up.

Is there an interpreter in the house?!

The hose I want to replace is the hose that carries the output of fluid to the backhoe. There is a male thread just like the plug bolt where the hose needs to attach. That female cap fits right over it. So, the hose (at that end) will need a female JIC swivel that will fit that bolt. that's why I was measuring the ID of that cap. I just can't seem to understand what size is needed. It seems ridiculous but that's the way it is.

The other end of that hose has a quick connect. And, that's another problem. :-( The ID on the quick connect is smaller than the plug bolt! This makes no sense! At least, makes no sense to me.

I don't know how to get my mind to understand, TheOldHokie. This can't be that hard. I understand the JIC 37° is what this machine uses. It appears, too, that all the male fittings are the same size...control valve, cylinders, etc. Female swivel fittings, then, would all be the same ID, with the only difference being whether a 90 degree is needed, such as at the control valve. So, here's what my mind says:

On one end, I need a JIC 37° female swivel fitting with an ID of 1/2" . At DHH, that would be fitting FJX 04-06. Am I getting close?

TG

PS Are you still having fun.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Is there an interpreter in the house?!

The hose I want to replace is the hose that carries the output of fluid to the backhoe. There is a male thread just like the plug bolt where the hose needs to attach. That female cap fits right over it. So, the hose (at that end) will need a female JIC swivel that will fit that bolt. that's why I was measuring the ID of that cap. I just can't seem to understand what size is needed. It seems ridiculous but that's the way it is.

The other end of that hose has a quick connect. And, that's another problem. :-( The ID on the quick connect is smaller than the plug bolt! This makes no sense! At least, makes no sense to me.

I don't know how to get my mind to understand, TheOldHokie. This can't be that hard. I understand the JIC 37° is what this machine uses. It appears, too, that all the male fittings are the same size...control valve, cylinders, etc. Female swivel fittings, then, would all be the same ID, with the only difference being whether a 90 degree is needed, such as at the control valve. So, here's what my mind says:

On one end, I need a JIC 37° female swivel fitting with an ID of 1/2" . At DHH, that would be fitting FJX 04-06. Am I getting close?

TG

PS Are you still having fun.

WE are having fun and you are catching on to the Swahili of hydraulic fittings.
Bwana will translate:

1. You have JIC fittings.
2. Based on your measurements they are dash size 06.
3. You have 1/4" hose which is dash size 04.
4. The correct hose end would be a 04-06 combination
5. The hydraulic Swahili for a straight 37 degree female JIC swivel hose end fitting is FJX
6. The hydraulic Swahili for a 90 degree female JIC swivel hose end fitting is FJX90
7. A 1/4" hose with one female JIC 6 swivel end is specified as FJX-04-06
8. A 1/4" hose with one 90 degree JIC 6 swivel end is specified as FJX90-04-06

Dan

 

[Tractor Gal]

WE are having fun and you are catching on to the Swahili of hydraulic fittings.
Bwana will translate:

1. You have JIC fittings.
2. Based on your measurements they are dash size 06.
3. You have 1/4" hose which is dash size 04.
4. The correct hose end would be a 04-06 combination
5. The hydraulic Swahili for a straight 37 degree female JIC swivel hose end fitting is FJX
6. The hydraulic Swahili for a 90 degree female JIC swivel hose end fitting is FJX90
7. A 1/4" hose with one female JIC 6 swivel end is specified as FJX-04-06
8. A 1/4" hose with one 90 degree JIC 6 swivel end is specified as FJX90-04-06

Dan

OK. Progress, at last.

Now...for the other end. A quick disconnect is required. (I thought these were called quick connects, but quick disconnect is the operative term. ) I've looked at DHH for a quick disconnect for the other end of this hose but I don't see one listed as available for them to assemble. The receiving hose already has its disconnect portion.

This hose connects either to the backhoe or back to the tractor when the backhoe is not in use. That's why it needs a quick disconnect. Are you willing (I know you're able) to help me figure out how to get a quick disconnect on the other end? And, of course, there will be the size issue.

TG

 

[PoTreeBoy]

I've been keeping up but not commenting to avoid confusion.
I concur with TheOldHokie that what you have is an -06 JIC fitting.
* Forget measuring the female i.d. The thread nomenclature is the o.d. of the male end. Since you have the plugs, you can find the one that fits the female end, then measure the plug o.d.
* Don't assume all the ends are the same - measure each one. On my loader, some of the hoses had different size fittings on the two ends of one hose.
* When measuring the length, follow DHH's website. It's not exactly the length of the hose part.

 

[Tractor Gal]

I've been keeping up but not commenting to avoid confusion.
I concur with TheOldHokie that what you have is an -06 JIC fitting.
* Forget measuring the female i.d. The thread nomenclature is the o.d. of the male end. Since you have the plugs, you can find the one that fits the female end, then measure the plug o.d.
* Don't assume all the ends are the same - measure each one. On my loader, some of the hoses had different size fittings on the two ends of one hose.
* When measuring the length, follow DHH's website. It's not exactly the length of the hose part.

Thanks for chiming in, PoTreeBoy. Confusion seems to be my middle name so thanks for trying to eliminate as much of that as possible.

Good advice about being sure to measure all fittings. Eyeballing probably is not a good idea. I will continue to look at the DHH site many times prior to ordering something. While I can't expect to be "fluent," hopefully, I will be able to recognize the language. And, that is due mainly to TheOldHokie and your input, too.

TG

 

[PoTreeBoy]

Oh, and the end with the quick disconnect - can you show a picture? Most of those use National Pipe Thread (NPT) and the thread O.D. isn't even close to the NPT size. It's even worse, the threads are tapered - smaller at the end. But if you post a picture and mic the O.D., we can confirm that it's NPT and tell you the size.

 

[Tractor Gal]

Oh, and the end with the quick disconnect - can you show a picture? Most of those use National Pipe Thread (NPT) and the thread O.D. isn't even close to the NPT size. It's even worse, the threads are tapered - smaller at the end. But if you post a picture and mic the O.D., we can confirm that it's NPT and tell you the size.

Oh, boy...this ought to be something. I'll try to get a picture tomorrow when it's a bit lighter. Thanks for your willingness. It's been a good day...I've learned something. Never gets old when you learn.

TG

 

[TheOldHokie]

Oh, and the end with the quick disconnect - can you show a picture? Most of those use National Pipe Thread (NPT) and the thread O.D. isn't even close to the NPT size. It's even worse, the threads are tapered - smaller at the end. But if you post a picture and mic the O.D., we can confirm that it's NPT and tell you the size.

I hate NPT threads and spend a little extra to get quick connects with SAE ports. These are 1/2" body size but they have them in 3/8 and 1/4 as well:

Amazon.com

Dan

 

[Tractor Gal]

I hate NPT threads and spend a little extra to get quick connects with SAE ports. These are 1/2" body size but they have them in 3/8 and 1/4 as well:

Amazon.com

Dan

I don't seem to find this description on the DHH site for the disconnects. What is the difference? And, what extra value do they offer?...if you don't mind answering.

I won't be home this afternoon so I won't be able to respond until later today or tomorrow. Just so you know...

TG

 

[Tractor Gal]

Oh, and the end with the quick disconnect - can you show a picture? Most of those use National Pipe Thread (NPT) and the thread O.D. isn't even close to the NPT size. It's even worse, the threads are tapered - smaller at the end. But if you post a picture and mic the O.D., we can confirm that it's NPT and tell you the size.

Here's a picture of the disconnect for the BT600. This line is the output of fluid to the backhoe. Obviously I didn't disconnect so I hope it's enough to give some info for identification.

I won't be home this afternoon but I'll try to check later this evening or tomorrow to see if you've had time to respond....no rush.

TG

 

[TheOldHokie]

I don't seem to find this description on the DHH site for the disconnects. What is the difference? And, what extra value do they offer?...if you don't mind answering.

I won't be home this afternoon so I won't be able to respond until later today or tomorrow. Just so you know...

TG

The couplers have a female port that screws on to the end of a hose. Couplers with SAE ports seal withban oring and are easier to connect. Couplers with NPT ports require thread tape or sealant and are more difficult to connect.

Your couplers look like they have NPT ports. You will understand what I mean when you transfer them to your new hoses.

Here is a link to 1/4" couplers with SAE 6 ports.

1/4” Ag Hydraulic Quick Connect Coupler Set, Poppet Valve, #6 SAE (9/16"-18 ORB) Thread

FREE SHIPPING 1/4” Ag Hydraulic Quick Connect Coupler Set, 3/8" SAE (9/16"-18 ORB) Thread

summit-hydraulics.com

Dan

 

[TheOldHokie]

Here's a picture of the disconnect for the BT600. This line is the output of fluid to the backhoe. Obviously I didn't disconnect so I hope it's enough to give some info for identification.

View attachment 77037

I won't be home this afternoon but I'll try to check later this evening or tomorrow to see if you've had time to respond....no rush.

TG

Those couplers just screw onto the end of the hose. You will take them off the old hose and hook it to the end of the new hose.

Looks like the hose with male tip has male pipe thread end and is screwed directly into the tip.

The female coupler is harder to see. It may have a male NPT x male JIC adapter in it and the hose end is a female JIC swivel. Need a better view to be sure. If that is the case you need a hose with a JIC female swivel on one end and rigid male pipe on the other. Or keep the adapter and use a hose with JIC swivels on both ends.

Dan

 

[PoTreeBoy]

Yes, that's NPT thread where the coupler screws onto the hose. If you measure the thread O.D. at the black plastic dust cover, we can determine the size needed for your hose. You can reuse the coupling. Be forewarned, it may be on tight. Most people recommend using liquid Teflon instead of Teflon tape on those threads.

 

[Tractor Gal]

Yes, the coupler does screw onto the hose. I replaced it once because it seemed it was leaking and it was quite a process to get it off, especially when I don't have a permanent vise. I'll give it some more thought today.

And, because it screws on to the current hose fitting, I'll just measure at the black cap to get the right male fitting assembled onto the new hose.

Thanks to both of you for the help. I won't order today as I think I'll get one additional hose at the same time to make a more efficient order. I want to replace the really large hose on the dipperstick cylinder to make it easier to get all those hoses into place. In fact, I'm going to take a picture of that space so my "complaint" makes sense about being such a tight fit.

Thanks again! I'll report again as progress allows.

TG

 

[Tractor Gal]

OK, I need to return to this thread for additional help. The right quick disconnect that I need to order is somewhat confusing. I think I like TheOldHokie's idea is better...easier to connect and seals with an O ring so less likely to leak.

The hose itself is going to have to have a male fitting on one end in order for the disconnect to attach. How do I know what male fitting size and what disconnect size to order when I don't currently have one to measure?

The acronym of NPT apparently means National Pipe Thread but I have no clue how to identify what is an NPT. I understand the JIC 37 but not the NPT.

I looked at the Summit Hydraulics link and could order the one at the link but making sure I get the correct male fitting from DHH is a bit of a stumper for me. I'd apologize for my ignorance but a person has to start somewhere. And, it's wonderful that this forum is filled with people with patience. It's a virtue, you know.

TG

 

[TheOldHokie]

OK, I need to return to this thread for additional help. The right quick disconnect that I need to order is somewhat confusing. I think I like TheOldHokie's idea is better...easier to connect and seals with an O ring so less likely to leak.

The hose itself is going to have to have a male fitting on one end in order for the disconnect to attach. How do I know what male fitting size and what disconnect size to order when I don't currently have one to measure?

The acronym of NPT apparently means National Pipe Thread but I have no clue how to identify what is an NPT. I understand the JIC 37 but not the NPT.

I looked at the Summit Hydraulics link and could order the one at the link but making sure I get the correct male fitting from DHH is a bit of a stumper for me. I'd apologize for my ignorance but a person has to start somewhere. And, it's wonderful that this forum is filled with people with patience. It's a virtue, you know.

TG

I would suggest a JIC to NPT adapter for your existing quick connect - part number 2404-06-04. Then get your hose made with a female JIC swivel on that end. Alternatively you could buy a new quick connect with a SAE 6 port and use a JIC to SAE adapter 6400-06-06 and eliminate the pipe thread altogether.

Dan

 

[PoTreeBoy]

If you're going to keep your existing coupler, I'd just get a hose made with male NPT fitting on it.
If you're going with the o-ring fitting, I'd buy new couplers with the SAE thread and have the hose made with SAE male fitting to match.
Your fittings appear to be the Pioneer, also known as ISO5675, style. They come in different body sizes, shown below. My L35 has 1/2" - I suspect you have smaller ones. Within each body size there are several pipe connection styles available. you just need to make sure your coupler and hose match. I'd select -06.
Hope this doesn't confuse the issue.

 

[Tractor Gal]

Thanks for the answers. I've got to process the info. One of the issues is that I haven't taken the hose off the tractor to actually see what is there. I had been hoping to continue using the tractor until the new hoses come. Guess I was wrong! Thanks again.