Some of you may remember my Post about my B2601 breaking in half!

Egressman

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Equipment
B2601
Sep 7, 2016
140
7
18
Richmond, IN, United States
Easy there Geo. The OP himself posted the link, I think he had his "Doh!" moment already.
Actually many of those moments! Because of the very orginal problem of it breaking in half, I attributed the additional problems to unknown damage. I should have done the basic troubleshooting and found out why?

Would have saved me a lot of headache!
 

Egressman

Member

Equipment
B2601
Sep 7, 2016
140
7
18
Richmond, IN, United States
Which compartment did the broken ring come from? The transmission/range section, the differential where the ring gear resides or the axle case where the pinion and bull gear are? I doubt all the pieces of broken ring would migrate from one compartment to another.
I also doubt that item #030 in the brake parts diagram is the source, as that is a circlip or snap ring.

I also do not see damage that could be attributed to lubricant, even though I agree that "303" oils are an obsolete spec and is not a wise choice to run in modern equipment. It does appear that someone has replaced the differential locking collar due to repeated improper engagement. They did not replace the shift fork or the differential case of which both really need to be replaced
You are correct, diff compartment sump, and no it couldn't have migrated from fwd compartment.

I agree, I was guessing, Those areas of the tractor have never been apart lol, they are the only areas that haven't. I am at a loss as to where it came from. I did replace the shift fork or yoke as I was calling it. But it was broke in the original accident.

The secondary problem is motion of the tractor, that's where the fluid issue comes in. If you read the start of this thread. This beast has a lot of history. I did not replace the differential case because it was function before it broke in half. I am considering doing that this trip in side.

Sounds like you've been inside one of these before?
 

Egressman

Member

Equipment
B2601
Sep 7, 2016
140
7
18
Richmond, IN, United States
Egressman thank you for the information you have shared. As a new kubota owner I appreciate what I learned from you and your experience . I feel bad that you had so many issues with the tractor. I have used inexpensive hydraulic fluid in my old farmall and had issues with foaming which really messed up the hydraulic functions. I spent a lot of time trying to get the air out of the system and still have foaming and oil getting by the cap. It was one of the reasons I bought a new tractor as I cannot stand dripping oil on the ground.
Have you thought of using a vacuum setup to get the air out of your old machine?

Also, sharing here has helped me keep my cool. I have not let it beat me yet! Everyone has been great for the most part, I expected some unwanted comments, they have been few and far in between. have learned a lot on here.
 

Dieseldonato

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I'd rather clean out an old kubota filter then use a Fram filter. So much better filter put there. Fleet guard, Donaldson, and Baldwin are a few decent companies off the top of my head.
 
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top gnome

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b2301 w bh fel grapple back blade snow plow forks
Dec 12, 2021
461
218
43
Fundy shore nova scotia
Have you thought of using a vacuum setup to get the air out of your old machine?

Also, sharing here has helped me keep my cool. I have not let it beat me yet! Everyone has been great for the most part, I expected some unwanted comments, they have been few and far in between. have learned a lot on here.
NO I have not thought of a vacuum system. thank you. With the new tractor I will not use the old one much i will probably sell it later this year but will either have to fix it or make sure the person who buys it will fix it. Dont want to let a leaky tractor out. Its the same hp as my 2301 but the wheels are 3 times the size and twice the weight. It starts and runs great other than the hydraulic leak i have done a lot of work on it and with it but parts are getting hard to find. I have almost no hydraulic knowledge. The hydraulics stop working on the farmall and I have to move the control levers back and forth 20 times or more to get them to start working :confused:
 

Egressman

Member

Equipment
B2601
Sep 7, 2016
140
7
18
Richmond, IN, United States
NO I have not thought of a vacuum system. thank you. With the new tractor I will not use the old one much i will probably sell it later this year but will either have to fix it or make sure the person who buys it will fix it. Dont want to let a leaky tractor out. Its the same hp as my 2301 but the wheels are 3 times the size and twice the weight. It starts and runs great other than the hydraulic leak i have done a lot of work on it and with it but parts are getting hard to find. I have almost no hydraulic knowledge. The hydraulics stop working on the farmall and I have to move the control levers back and forth 20 times or more to get them to start working :confused:
I do understand, I am not a tractor mechanic! I worked on Ejection Systems on Fighter and Bomber in the Air Force for 24 years. I am blessed with just enough skill and tools to do a job 3 or 4 times to get it right! My brother and now daughter refer to "Trippers!" to identify the difficulties level with a job!

If you start a plumbing job and it takes 4 trips to Lowes, then it's a 4 Tripper! LOL

Some jobs are a 1 tripper, others are embarrassing! lol But great skills to have.

Back to the Hyd, I had to use a Harbor Freight vacuum pump to pull the air out of my power steering system once. Others on her much smarter can advise you better than I. I just drilled a hole in my power steering cap (Off the truck) and made an adapter to allow a vacuum to form.
 

Egressman

Member

Equipment
B2601
Sep 7, 2016
140
7
18
Richmond, IN, United States
You are correct, diff compartment sump, and no it couldn't have migrated from fwd compartment.

I agree, I was guessing, Those areas of the tractor have never been apart lol, they are the only areas that haven't. I am at a loss as to where it came from. I did replace the shift fork or yoke as I was calling it. But it was broke in the original accident.

The secondary problem is motion of the tractor, that's where the fluid issue comes in. If you read the start of this thread. This beast has a lot of history. I did not replace the differential case because it was function before it broke in half. I am considering doing that this trip in side.

Sounds like you've been inside one of these before?
Some additional info and pictures:

The "spacer", part is sized as shown in the pictures. It is deformed and not symmetrical anymore, it shows wear on all surfaces, it also has the look of a washer that was over tightened and is starting to "pull-in" or is tapered from the id to the od. All pieces were recovered! The thickness is also different across the part, there are sharp edges also. Still have no idea where it's from! Measurements are as it is now, it is not accurate for a new part, just for reference. I will clean my nails later! lol
 

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top gnome

Active member

Equipment
b2301 w bh fel grapple back blade snow plow forks
Dec 12, 2021
461
218
43
Fundy shore nova scotia
thank
I do understand, I am not a tractor mechanic! I worked on Ejection Systems on Fighter and Bomber in the Air Force for 24 years. I am blessed with just enough skill and tools to do a job 3 or 4 times to get it right! My brother and now daughter refer to "Trippers!" to identify the difficulties level with a job!

If you start a plumbing job and it takes 4 trips to Lowes, then it's a 4 Tripper! LOL

Some jobs are a 1 tripper, others are embarrassing! lol But great skills to have.

Back to the Hyd, I had to use a Harbor Freight vacuum pump to pull the air out of my power steering system once. Others on her much smarter can advise you better than I. I just drilled a hole in my power steering cap (Off the truck) and made an adapter to allow a vacuum to form.
[/QUOTE

thank you the farmall is pretty far down on my to do list right now when I get into it I will take your advice maybe even post something on this site.

I agree I spent 30 years in factories and my wife and I remodelled several homes that we lived in. We can do most anything but like you it may be a 4 or even 6 tripper. :D
 

Egressman

Member

Equipment
B2601
Sep 7, 2016
140
7
18
Richmond, IN, United States
Mystery solved, the "Why!" not so much. If you stare at something long enough, something not right will show itself!

I was inspecting the Transmission case and components after letting it drain overnight. When I noticed a bearing that just didn't look right. low and behold, it was my problem. And the pieces had indeed made their way to the Diff housing somehow? How I will never know!

So I removed the shaft and the rest of the parts came out, the bearing fractured around the circumference of the outer ring. I've seen the guts come out of bearings but never the out ring crack. $25.00 bearing.
 

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Dieseldonato

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Glad to figured it out. Odd to see a bearing fail in this manner without a major shock load of some sort. I would inspect everything very closely. And double check all tolerances and side play.
 
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North Idaho Wolfman

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Glad to figured it out. Odd to see a bearing fail in this manner without a major shock load of some sort. I would inspect everything very closely. And double check all tolerances and side play.
Read the original story (bottom of page #1) and you'll see how bad of a Shock that poor tractor got.
 
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Dieseldonato

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NO, NOT, NEVER!
That's my thoughts
I'd actually like to expand on that thought.
Years ago when the 6.4l ford diesel was coming out one of our local Ford dealers hosted a powerstroke training and invited all the local diesel repair shops to it. One of the biggest things they talked about was filters. They had done their best to keep from us finding out what filters were what, but the Fram junk was kinda obvious. Sadly when the cut the oil filters open (brand new. They just painted the out side if them all black) the Fram brand had a cardboard spacer in it and about half the filter media that the oem filter had. The fuel filters were noticably shorter, hence the reason for them coming with a new lid. The factory lid was to short to properly engage the filter. Right then and there I realized I would never run a Fram filter again in my life.
 
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hagrid

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Mystery solved, the "Why!" not so much. If you stare at something long enough, something not right will show itself!

I was inspecting the Transmission case and components after letting it drain overnight. When I noticed a bearing that just didn't look right. low and behold, it was my problem. And the pieces had indeed made their way to the Diff housing somehow? How I will never know!

So I removed the shaft and the rest of the parts came out, the bearing fractured around the circumference of the outer ring. I've seen the guts come out of bearings but never the out ring crack. $25.00 bearing.
So... is the assignable cause for the most recent failure a component that was compromised during the wreck or the use of unapproved fluid?
 

GeoHorn

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Thoughts on FRAM filters instead of OEM?
I thought you’d already had enough “doh” moments…(wink)

(and I apologize for any previous over-the-top remarks I may have made … they were not actually directed at you personally… just casting a broad net hoping noobs will not get caught in it.)
 

torch

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So... is the assignable cause for the most recent failure a component that was compromised during the wreck or the use of unapproved fluid?
I don't think anybody could answer that question definitively from some pictures on the internet.

Poor lubrication could lead to excessive wear of transmission components. As parts wear, clearances increase and I have seen transmissions where excessive clearances allowed gears to bind or even be forced apart, breaking clips and castings, under load. I have also seen worn bearings bind, jam and come apart under load. So it is my personal opinion that it is possible that poor lubrication was a contributory factor.

A conceivable scenario is that sloppy transmission bits rattled around but in general alignment until subjected to an unusually higher force -- such as pushing the tree over -- that finally popped the clip out of place allowing further binding. The subsequent drive home, with repeated stalling and shifting of gears to get it moving again, caused further damage. Or maybe the bearing jammed and broke first, pushing the clip out of place. Who knows? I certainly can't tell from here.

All that said, I would think that wear caused by poor lubrication would first manifest itself in the HST pump and motor. They are built to very close tolerances and wear there should result in low HST pressure. In other words, I would have thought you would have problems driving to the tree in the first place, not just driving home after pushing it over.

As for Fram filters: they earned a very poor reputation 20-odd years ago when certain ones started falling apart internally. This coincided with the rise of the internet forums. Since then they have probably been subjected to the most internet scrutiny of any brand. A couple of specific model recalls due to faulty crimping, incorrect dimensions and gasket failures didn't help their reputation any.

Note that Fram makes a few product lines at different price points. Is their budget line really any worse than a comparably priced line from another manufacturer? I doubt it. Is their higher priced line better than their budget line? Probably -- the better line has a greater filtration surface area, anyway. They do make the OEM filters for a few different engine manufacturers so they do know how to make a decent filter if they want to.

Now Kubota brand filters only have one line. They are probably not made by Kubota themselves. In fact, they may be made by different manufacturers at different times. OEMs typically call for bids based on certain specs from time to time.

I don't know about your tractor, but on mine, Kubota used a by-pass filtration system. If the filter is too restrictive, there will be less overall filtration. If the filter media is not dense enough, it won't filter to the required density. It's a Goldilocks thing -- needs to be juuuust right.

The advantage of paying a couple of bucks more for the Kubota name on the can is that you don't have to compare filter density, filter area, anti-drain back valve, pressure rating, flow rate, etc. etc. to ensure the aftermarket filter actually meets the Kubota spec. Someone else did that for you already.
 
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Egressman

Member

Equipment
B2601
Sep 7, 2016
140
7
18
Richmond, IN, United States
So... is the assignable cause for the most recent failure a component that was compromised during the wreck or the use of unapproved fluid?
I'm not sure, the one thing I am sure of is, Tractors are like Vets, you don't always see the damage done on the outside, often, you need to invest some quality time looking and fixing what's inside!

I do have Tractor PTSD, never sure when It will strike either. I do know a man it Ky who makes a product called Shoc-Shot. The tractor may meet some before long!

Egressman at Knob Creek Range!
 
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