Some of you may remember my Post about my B2601 breaking in half!

[Egressman]

Yes most definitely!
Exactly what fluid do you have in it?
Everything you state points to bad fluid / filters.
I highly doubt you need to rebuild or reseal the HST unit.
If it was just the HST that was giving you problems then I could see it, but you have multiple hydraulic system issues.

If you want to stay with an economical Fluid that works, I've been running Mystik JT-5 in everything I have and have never had a fluid related issue.

https://www.mystiklubes.com/Product.do?code=663509002&category=TRANS_POWER_FLUID

I am not 100% sure but I think it has that fluid that was recalled or there was a problem with it. I fried told about it and sure enough I have two or three empty buckets out there. I think it was from TSC???

Anyways, you know what Ive been through with this beast, if I can spend a little more on good fluid to keep me from spending this much down time then I will. I would be a fool not to, breaking this case open is not fun stuff, the mess, the work, and the fact that everything on a farm if 3 times harder in the winter when you don't have a heated shop to let it sit in to warm up for a few days to work on it!

Thanks again for the help. That fluid is going to be better this time!

 

[Egressman]

This is the fluid that I'm running in my Kubota.

303 hydraulic fluid

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

This is the fluid that I'm running in my Kubota.

303 hydraulic fluid

I would bet you that that is ALL of your problems in one container.
Not Knocking you, but that is the worst fluid that you could use for a Kubota, especially an HST.
Any slight cold temp change and that stuff turns to molasses!

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Perilously Obsolete: The Dangers of 303 Tractor Hydraulic Fluids | TractorLife

www.tractorlife.com

Consumer Protection Alert

The Missouri Department of Agriculture is continuing its effort to eliminate harmful motor oil, automatic transmission fluid and automotive antifreeze in the marketplace. The consumer alert bulletins identify those specific oil and antifreeze brands determined potentially harmful to engines and...

agriculture.mo.gov

.

Don't take chances with '303' Tractor Fluid - PPC Lubricants, Inc.

If you visit your local parts store or farm supply warehouse with any regularity, you’ve most likely seen pails of “303 Tractor Fluid” on the shelves next to other lubricants and fluids. Some are dressed up with attractive images of tractors, backhoes and the like while others are one step away...

www.ppclubricants.com

 

[ACDII]

I would bet you that that is ALL of your problems in one container.
Not Knocking you, but that is the worst fluid that you could use for a Kubota, especially an HST.
Any slight cold temp change and that stuff turns to molasses!

100% agreed on this. Start with a good fluid flush fill it with good fluid, and go from there. If not the fluid, drain it in a clean container, fix the problem and reuse it. As long as it isn't contaminated with other fluids or water/metal, it wont be wasted.

 

[Egressman]

I would bet you that that is ALL of your problems in one container.
Not Knocking you, but that is the worst fluid that you could use for a Kubota, especially an HST.
Any slight cold temp change and that stuff turns to molasses!

I don't need it sugar coated, it is what it is! I may save someone my issues but these posts!

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I don't need it sugar coated, it is what it is! I may save someone my issues but these posts!

Ok no Sugar Coating!
That stuff is crap!
By twice as much Good fluid as you need, and two of each filter (Hydraulic and HST).

Drain all the fluid you can, replace both filters, run it for a short period operating all the hydraulics that you can, Like loader full up and down, full dump and retract several times, Try driving forward and reverse, for a short run.
Drain all fluid and remove filters again, then replace with new.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Sorry looking back through the thread, I had missed a few posts.
I see that you've already acknowledged that it could very well be the fluid causing you issues.

Carry On!

 

[Egressman]

Well, Tractor is torn down for the 7th time.

I know it now without even labeling anything, not a good thing.

So far I've found a couple of issues! As I said from the beginning, I knew why my 3pt wouldn't raise anymore. The control valve casting was fractured at the mounting point. This prevented any pressure from going to the piston that raises the link arms. I have the replacement part and seals for that.

I found two problems in the rear transmission case, metal particles and a broken ring on the bottom of the case in the sump area.

The particles are from the yoke that engages the rear diff, it is worn for some reason, the lugs on the inboard side are also worn. The yoke is cast metal. Assuming the return spring was not strong enough to disengage rear diff so it was worn instead of kicking out, it stayed engaged. Will investigate further.

The ring has me puzzled, I'm actually puzzled, I don't know where it came from. Impossible for it to travel from the middle or forward case. Pass-through holes are too small. It had to come from the rear axle, left or right, possibly the differential. I will call Messicks to get the dimensions of the part I believe it is.

What I need to do is just go out and tear it apart some more to see if the part I believe is broken is there or not lol. Basketball is keeping me tied up. Lol.

The brake assy hides the location of the piece I believe is broken. Item 30 is the broken part I believe. No 30is the broken part. No idea why it broke, tied to wear on the diff yoke I'm sure.

 

[Egressman]

Well, Tractor is torn down for the 7th time.

I know it now without even labeling anything, not a good thing.

So far I've found a couple of issues! As I said from the beginning, I knew why my 3pt wouldn't raise anymore. The control valve casting was fractured at the mounting point. This prevented any pressure from going to the piston that raises the link arms. I have the replacement part and seals for that.

I found two problems in the rear transmission case, metal particles and a broken ring on the bottom of the case in the sump area.

The particles are from the yoke that engages the rear diff, it is worn for some reason, the lugs on the inboard side are also worn. The yoke is cast metal. Assuming the return spring was not strong enough to disengage rear diff so it was worn instead of kicking out, it stayed engaged. Will investigate further.

The ring has me puzzled, I'm actually puzzled, I don't know where it came from. Impossible for it to travel from the middle or forward case. Pass-through holes are too small. It had to come from the rear axle, left or right, possibly the differential. I will call Messicks to get the dimensions of the part I believe it is.

What I need to do is just go out and tear it apart some more to see if the part I believe is broken is there or not lol. Basketball is keeping me tied up. Lol.

The brake assy hides the location of the piece I believe is broken. Item 30 is the broken part I believe. No 30is the broken part. No idea why it broke, tied to wear on the diff yoke I'm sure.

That’s the link from my post. An accident such as this has lasting effects of course. As of recent, I have had a problem moving the tractor. While I can fix most anything I need to know what needs to be fixed. I know some of you out there can tell me what is going on! You are who I am looking for.

I used my tractor to push over a dead tree down the road, once I was ready to leave I had a loss of power, Hydraulic power that is, It was screaming as I pressed the pedal forward and aft. It would barely move. This is across all gears and ranges, forward and aft.

I serviced the fluid to make sure that was not the issue. I’m thinking clutch? But I’m not a tractor mechanic; I have 20 plus years on fighters and bombers lol. They are not the same!

I was able to limp it home, shifting from low to high and back. It was start to slow and the harder I pushed the more it strained!

It now has got to the point where it will barely move at all, I have some movement of the bucket but that’s marginal at best. I was able to roll the bucket enough to remove the front tire to reseal a bead.

Help me out please, before I tear open the case I want an idea of what I need to look for and possible pre-order the parts so I can swap ASAP.

Egressman

My B2601 broke in half!

My B2601 broke in half! Link is to the Album! http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/album.php?albumid=608

www.orangetractortalks.com

 

[Egressman]

Took some time to try to find where the broken ring came from. No luck, I just can't find a part that's missing.

Here are some additional pictures that show some of the wear inside. Rear Diff shows some wear for sure.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Check the timing on the lift arms on the rock shaft to make user it's not lifting too high thus causing the piston arm to hit the valve.

 

[torch]

Here are some additional pictures that show some of the wear inside. Rear Diff shows some wear for sure.

From the link you posted above earlier:

Over the summer the Department sampled 14 different 303 fluids, many claiming to work in almost every tractor. All 14 of these 303 fluids failed to meet current specifications and were found to be underperforming to the point that damage was likely to result from use.

Sounds like your tractor is another victim.

I'm tempted to send every person who posts a "what is a cheap alternative oil" thread to this one. I sure wouldn't want to foot your repair bill on this.

 

[skeets]

By this time if it was me here would have been one hell of a fire with the beasty right in the middle of it

 

[GeoHorn]

Oh… but the REAL STUFF is so EXPENSIVE….. so might as well risk a huge repair bill and buy some kind of generic whatever from the local tractor store that is “On Sale”…. after-all… I need to save some MONEY…(as if a couple $20 bills were made of Gold)….. . and there’s NO WAY any 5-gal buket of snot that claims to be a good substitute for my Kubota could cost me any addt’l troubles……. Right…??

GAWD!….it gets OLD…. <edited> buy dinosaur-piss in a bucket and pour it into a valuable tractor against ALL WARNINGS….and then come back to ask stoopid questions about why their tractor has a “problem”..

WEll…. DOH!

 

[torch]

Easy there Geo. The OP himself posted the link, I think he had his "Doh!" moment already.

 

[Egressman]

From the link you posted above earlier:


Sounds like your tractor is another victim.

I'm tempted to send every person who posts a "what is a cheap alternative oil" thread to this one. I sure wouldn't want to foot your repair bill on this.

LOL, I can't say 100% it's my problem, but I can say it didn't help my problems. Every time I see those empty 303 buckets I kick myself in the butt and say, "Boy, glad I saved money on my fluid!"

 

[Egressman]

Check the timing on the lift arms on the rock shaft to make user it's not lifting too high thus causing the piston arm to hit the valve.

It actually travels past the valve and did strike the valve. That was the 3pt issue. I solved it by grinding relief on the knuckle of the arm. Very beefy area, won't compromise strength.

I can't explain why it hit the valve but it did! Not once, but 4 times. I figured it out too late and it has cost me both time and money.

The clearance between the valve and the are is slight at best. After I discovered that was the problem you can see I chose to grind the piston rod to allow ample clearance now. I have a new valve installed, there were and are no shims on the shaft that the upper lift arms are mounted on. There is very little side-to-side play in them. Both that are struck the valve every time and broke it but lifted it off the mounts.

Someone at the dealer accused me of running it with the lift arms not installed which would allow it to shift sideways and contact the valve. That never happened, it always broke when the tractor was in full use!

Anyways, in the picture you can see the relief I ground to prevent it from happening again. Now to solve the Diff wear and play the fluid was the issue, I will get it back together and replace the fluid again. With the entire trans disassembled I can jack the tractor up and just let it flow out!

 

[top gnome]

Egressman thank you for the information you have shared. As a new kubota owner I appreciate what I learned from you and your experience . I feel bad that you had so many issues with the tractor. I have used inexpensive hydraulic fluid in my old farmall and had issues with foaming which really messed up the hydraulic functions. I spent a lot of time trying to get the air out of the system and still have foaming and oil getting by the cap. It was one of the reasons I bought a new tractor as I cannot stand dripping oil on the ground.

 

[ruger1980]

Which compartment did the broken ring come from? The transmission/range section, the differential where the ring gear resides or the axle case where the pinion and bull gear are? I doubt all the pieces of broken ring would migrate from one compartment to another.
I also doubt that item #030 in the brake parts diagram is the source, as that is a circlip or snap ring.

I also do not see damage that could be attributed to lubricant, even though I agree that "303" oils are an obsolete spec and is not a wise choice to run in modern equipment. It does appear that someone has replaced the differential locking collar due to repeated improper engagement. They did not replace the shift fork or the differential case of which both really need to be replaced