COVID-19 Stuff

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SidecarFlip

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You can add a quick 600 to that total as well. Local (to me) prison west of me about 10 miles has 600 confirmed cases in inmates and 40 more in staff, 640 total. No deaths yet but I'm sure it's coming and won't be too long either.

I won't be going anywhere near it if I can help it.

Sure, you can jerk the numbers around, bottom line is people are getting infected and people are dying and it don't really matter how many because one is too many.

Like Janis Joplin sang.... Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. Myself, I prefer to err on the side of staying virus free, Asian flu or Wuhan Flu, don 't matter much to me or my wife.

What all of you do is your business. Just be prepared to accept the consequences of your actions.... and don't whine about it if it don't turn out the way you 'think' it should either.
 

SidecarFlip

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This is for all my New Hampshire neighbors. 10 more deaths today.
These are people. Not 10 numbers. Mothers fathers sisters and brothers killed by the virus.
So sad.

https://patch.com/new-hampshire/concord-nh/10-more-new-hampshire-die-due-new-coronavirus
What I find very sad about all this is... You can be asymptomatic and not even know it and infect others, including loved ones as well as strangers just by exercising your 'freedoms'.

You have people running around who may well be carriers and not even bothering to practice the slightest amount on mitigation and that outs the rest of us in a very compromising situation.
 

Daren Todd

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Just by the numbers... our "right to freedom" is very likely to kill a lot of us! :(



Well I guess we can be proud :rolleyes: that we lead the numbers (by a huge margin) of infected cases and of deaths.



People can rant, rave, protest, march, party or bury their heads in the sand, but the true numbers will come out in the end!



I dont believe we are number 1 in this regard. There are a couple countries that are most likely withholding their true numbers.

I actually dont trust the accuracy of the testing. So I dont trust the numbers infected. I also don't trust how they determine whether the cause of death is attributed to the virus.

Was it death by covid, or death by other causes "HAD" covid? Reason being is they had a 107yo patient that tested positive, but Asymptomatic, and was on hospice for quite some time. So she was already actively dieing. That death was one that was attributed to covid 19 for the state. But did the virus kill her, or was it a false positive?

My questions on the test. What does the test look for to determine that a person is affected?

Is it something specific that is only in covid 19?

Or is it something that can be produced by another bug, like what they look for in the antibody test so there are multiple false positives.

Are they actually detecting the original coronavirus as well as covid 19?

Is the original coronavirus triggering false positives?

56 people tested positive in a local nursing home. Only 4 people showed symptoms. The other 52 people were Asymptomatic. The facility had 6 deaths attributed to coronavirus. 2 of those deaths were Asymptomatic.

So 93 percent of the positive tests were Asymptomatic. Some of those people had highly compromised immune systems or on immunosuppressants.

Another recent test found 12 positive cases in another nursing home. All Asymptomatic.

So what I've seen locally through unbiased sources (family friend, wife, and doctor) really makes me wonder.



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SidecarFlip

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Maybe we need a thread for those who test positive and for how long they last?
 

sheepfarmer

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Daren, there are likely errors in computing all these numbers, but they are probably a small fraction of the totals. Several things are going on as people learn more about the virus clinically.

Regarding the "asymptomatic" column on a table, what has happened is that in the beginning of all this the listed diagnostic symptoms were fever, cough, difficulty breathing, and in fact if you didn't have one of them you could not get tested. In the intervening months they have added a lot of other symptoms. For example odd ones like "covid toes"! Then they realized that some people might not complain of shortness of breath, but if they measured blood oxygen levels, they were really low. Then they discovered that some people get a clotting disorder from the covid, and clots form and wind up in the lungs, heart and brain, giving rise to heart attacks, pulmonary embolisms, and strokes. What this means is just because someone doesn't have one or more of the current list doesn't mean they are truly asymptomatic. I am willing to bet some nurse was filling out a multiple choice form where the last box is "none of the above" and it got counted as asymptomatic.

Skeets mentioned hospitals going back and reviewing causes of deaths in covid positive patients. This is a good thing, we could learn a lot from double checking.

As far as the asymptomatic people in nursing homes, at least so listed until they become dead, a bunch of things seem to be going on. The older you are the less vigorous your immune system. Some of the classical covid symptoms arise as a result of an immune response, and are subdued or nonexistent in the elderly. And then there is the possibility that no one noticed grandma wasn't looking too good. :(

As far as listing someone in hospice, as far as I am concerned, we are all going to die sooner or later, and if someone tests positive and dies suddenly, all we can do is assume covid hastened that death. Maybe by only a few days, but I see no other way of handling the data.

Re your questions on testing, short answer is the reliability depends on the particular test, and the people doing them. Pilot error is possible. As far as the test for an active infection is concerned it is highly specific for covid 19. A false positive could occur if someone somehow contaminated a swab, but the procedure is pretty foolproof. Easier to get false negative. There could be a sampling problem, e.g. is there virus in the part of nasal cavity that was scraped by the swab? Joke is if it doesn't feel like the tester was going for a brain biopsy it wasn't back far enough.

There are a lot of papers on this, I'll look around for more of them for you.
 

Lil Foot

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Went to the local pizza joint to pick up take out tonight- about 40 people in the place & out front. Myself & two other older folks picking up food wearing masks, and one employee with a mask. All the rest were partying like there is no tomorrow, no social distancing, no protection, kids running all over. As I waited in line (6ft apart) a guy stopped right next to me, (10" to 12") and started to yell back something to the rest of his group. I asked him to step back and he laughed, until I made it clear that I was not making a joke. He moved away, and someone at his table said the word a$$hole. (quietly) I didn't fell like spending the next few hours talking to police, so I let it slide. I'm trying to be more easy going, but idiots really do make it difficult.
I try not to wish they all get the virus, but it is tough. Really felt sorry for all the kids.
 

SidecarFlip

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Went to the local pizza joint to pick up take out tonight- about 40 people in the place & out front. Myself & two other older folks picking up food wearing masks, and one employee with a mask. All the rest were partying like there is no tomorrow, no social distancing, no protection, kids running all over. As I waited in line (6ft apart) a guy stopped right next to me, (10" to 12") and started to yell back something to the rest of his group. I asked him to step back and he laughed, until I made it clear that I was not making a joke. He moved away, and someone at his table said the word a$$hole. (quietly) I didn't fell like spending the next few hours talking to police, so I let it slide. I'm trying to be more easy going, but idiots really do make it difficult.
I try not to wish they all get the virus, but it is tough. Really felt sorry for all the kids.
Bill: The important thing you don't and you are like me, I'm not tolerant of stupidity and especially not tolerant of blatant stupidity. Usually, I'm carrying. Lately I haven't been just for that reason... My tolerance for stupid level is pretty low anyway.

Amy and I won't do ANY carryout because we don't know who handled the food and especially the packaging. Will be a long, long time before we do even carryout (sure miss my Chinese carryout), let alone dining in any restaurant.

I feel for restaurant owners, lots of the smaller non chain owners are folding (couple in the town to the east of us have already closed up shop), never to come back, but, it concerns our welfare and it is what it is.

Try Red Barron frozen Pizza, Brick Oven, thin crust, pretty darn good.

Somethings I'm really anal about like pumping gas and wearing latex gloves and taking cash rent payments from my renters (I have one that always pays in cash, and yes my renters are staying current on the rent payments), I'm amazed at that. She always pays in cash and I always put her payment in the wife's electric oven and 'bake' the bills at 200 degrees for 30 minutes, just in case. Don't know who handled the bills or where they came from, so I 'cook' them for 30 minutes to be safe. I know, I'm anal....:) I'm still virus free and with my pre existing condition, Covid is probably a death sentence for me. I do what I have to do and will continue to do so.
 

NHSleddog

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What happened to the seasonal flu?

Garbage In - Garbage Out. But then most people have never done any actual research, so like sheep, they are easily led.

Why is ok to some people to go on made up numbers (Only some of the data is garbage right?).

In the industry I come from you have to throw it all out because if some of the data is bad, none of it can be trusted.

Are any of you fearing the regular flu? Well you don't have to anymore because the regular flue is no longer killing anyone. GIGO.
 

SidecarFlip

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I kind of scoff at the published numbers myself but then, so long as I don't become one (or my wife), I'm good with that...........
 

sheepfarmer

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What happened to the seasonal flu?

Garbage In - Garbage Out. But then most people have never done any actual research, so like sheep, they are easily led.

Why is ok to some people to go on made up numbers (Only some of the data is garbage right?).

In the industry I come from you have to throw it all out because if some of the data is bad, none of it can be trusted.

Are any of you fearing the regular flu? Well you don't have to anymore because the regular flue is no longer killing anyone. GIGO.
For your reading pleasure. This helps to explain the various counts and how they are obtained. There is way too much of people just taking a set of numbers and not discussing the uncertainty in the measurements. That doesn't mean one shouldn't make the measurements but at least consider whether one is comparing apples and oranges.

Basic point of this paper is seasonal flu deaths are estimated from an algorithm and covid deaths are counted from bodies with a positive test.


https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2766121
 

NHSleddog

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For your reading pleasure. This helps to explain the various counts and how they are obtained. There is way too much of people just taking a set of numbers and not discussing the uncertainty in the measurements. That doesn't mean one shouldn't make the measurements but at least consider whether one is comparing apples and oranges.

Basic point of this paper is seasonal flu deaths are estimated from an algorithm and covid deaths are counted from bodies with a positive test.


https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2766121
And that is where you are being misled.

Many many deaths are being called this flu that are not being tested for.

And again, we are missing the usual "seasonal flu" numbers. Right now they are all covid. No seasonal flu deaths since Jan. That is BS pure and simple BS.

There is an issue with this strain of flu to be sure, unfortunately when they "cook" the numbers you can't believe another word. Some are true but unfortunately some are also not true.

You will hate to hear this but many people look at the climate change issue in the same way. There is an issue for sure, but when you cook the numbers, nobody can believe whatever you say next. If they were so sure of their hypothesis they would never have faked/changed/omitted the numbers.

The same as lying about the pres. If he is so bad, they would not need to tell lies about him. Based on the sheer number of lies and things made up about him one should only come to one conclusion.

The reporting on this Wuhan Flu is no different. If it were so bad, they should have just been honest. Unfortunately once you lie or make something up, many people will have a hard time believing what you say next. And it depends on the region, massive under-reporting in China, massive over-reporting in America. On and on.

Some lead, some follow; try not to follow a follower.
 

SidecarFlip

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Candidly, I don't hold much candle in the numbers either. My main objective is and will always be, not contracting it or the common flu for that matter and the only way to achieve that (both) is social mitigation and personal hygiene. My hands have suffered from countless washings. Thank the Lord for Udder Balm and Working hands.

I have to agree on your synopsis of Trump as well. If he was as bad as the naysayers say, his track record would speak volumes of his ineptness. It don't. Only the negative comments, almost continously from the fake news is what you hear and read.

Personally speaking, I ignore them. I already know who I'll vote for come November and nothing will change that. Anyone who thinks Biden is a viable candidate needs professional help.
 

motionclone

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Speaking of scent, why is it that a scrap of cotton cloth will stop covid19 from escaping an infected persons mouth/nose in a high enough percentage to make wearing a face covering mandatory but...

2 butt cheeks, cotton underwear and pants dont stop a fart from escaping the ass?;)
 

dochsml

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Speaking of scent, why is it that a scrap of cotton cloth will stop covid19 from escaping an infected persons mouth/nose in a high enough percentage to make wearing a face covering mandatory but...

2 butt cheeks, cotton underwear and pants dont stop a fart from escaping the ass?;)
Lol! I think the key word would be mitigation. It does help with the wet ones!
 

SidecarFlip

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Speaking of scent, why is it that a scrap of cotton cloth will stop covid19 from escaping an infected persons mouth/nose in a high enough percentage to make wearing a face covering mandatory but...

2 butt cheeks, cotton underwear and pants dont stop a fart from escaping the ass?;)
The mask as well as distancing improves the odds of non transmission from an asymptomatic person to another person.

Without being too technical, the reason you can smell that fart is the receptors in your nose are actually energized by microscopic particles of a substance contacting them, so, in essence that fart you smell is actually particles of fecal matter in your nose.

I know you wanted to know that.....:D
 

sheepfarmer

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I dont believe we are number 1 in this regard. There are a couple countries that are most likely withholding their true numbers.

I actually dont trust the accuracy of the testing. So I dont trust the numbers infected. I also don't trust how they determine whether the cause of death is attributed to the virus.

Was it death by covid, or death by other causes "HAD" covid? Reason being is they had a 107yo patient that tested positive, but Asymptomatic, and was on hospice for quite some time. So she was already actively dieing. That death was one that was attributed to covid 19 for the state. But did the virus kill her, or was it a false positive?

My questions on the test. What does the test look for to determine that a person is affected?

Is it something specific that is only in covid 19?

Or is it something that can be produced by another bug, like what they look for in the antibody test so there are multiple false positives.

Are they actually detecting the original coronavirus as well as covid 19?

Is the original coronavirus triggering false positives?

56 people tested positive in a local nursing home. Only 4 people showed symptoms. The other 52 people were Asymptomatic. The facility had 6 deaths attributed to coronavirus. 2 of those deaths were Asymptomatic.

So 93 percent of the positive tests were Asymptomatic. Some of those people had highly compromised immune systems or on immunosuppressants.

Another recent test found 12 positive cases in another nursing home. All Asymptomatic.

So what I've seen locally through unbiased sources (family friend, wife, and doctor) really makes me wonder.



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Daren, your questions about what the various tests are recognizing are good ones. It depends on the specific test. Reputable tests are not supposed to cross react with, for example, antibodies to other viruses.

The " original " corona virus is not a good way of thinking about it, there are a lot of corona viruses in the family. The common cold is caused by a corona virus. Here is a new paper that suggests that one of the immune cells (a T cell subtype) that remain in the body after a previous cold MAY offer some protection to infection by the virus causing Covid 19. Note that T cells are not the same as antibodies and will not be detected by any of the commercially available tests. But their point was that long term immunity MAY be a hopeful thing.

https://www.sciencemagazinedigital....?articleId=1588559&app=false#articleId1588559
 

twomany

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The mask as well as distancing improves the odds of non transmission from an asymptomatic person to another person.

Without being too technical, the reason you can smell that fart is the receptors in your nose are actually energized by microscopic particles of a substance contacting them, so, in essence that fart you smell is actually particles of fecal matter in your nose.

I know you wanted to know that.....:D
And a virus is pretty dang small.........

Smaller than a scent?

I'm not going there. ;-)
 
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