COVID-19 Stuff

[skeets]

Ya pays your money and ya takes your chances

 

[SidecarFlip]

Ya pays your money and ya takes your chances

Exactly. Or, you leave your brain at home and you increase your chances...

 

[SidecarFlip]

Just read in the local rag (Adrian Telegram) that the prison on the east end of Adrian (in Madison Township) has 600 cases of Covid confirmed. The Michigan National Guard did the testing and 600 inmates tested positive for asymptomatic Covid 19. 600 out of 2400. I farm fairly close by to the prison (Gus Harrison Correctional Facility). I'll be cognizant of that when I'm in that field.

I still say (and maintain) that the infections will spike with the 'opening up' of various businesses and factories but, you cannot stay in the holding pattern we are in, indefinitely. The very fabric of the economy cannot bear it, unless of course, you want a full blown depression.

If people just used their heads for something other than to space their ears apart and a place to park a baseball cap on, we'd be a lot better off.

Sadly however, that isn't the case. Stupid is as stupid does and stupid gets infected.

 

[sheepfarmer]

Peoples who want to get back to work and feed their family have now been framed as selfish people who want to go out and party and kill us all. There are a lot of people in this country and around the world that are not as fortunate as those that are advocating staying home indefinitely (yes an exaggeration). They do not have a savings account to fall back on, and are scarred. There are many that never had to think about where their next meal is coming from, but are now faced with that very real question. They have others dependent on them, and they feel they are letting them down, and don't see a way to fix their situation. They have some real fears and legitimate concerns that can get to be a bigger problem than the virus. So please don't discount their wanting their freedom back as a selfish act. People sitting on their big bank accounts or still getting a check because they are essential (selling pot[emoji849]), and then turn their noses down at people who want to get back to work are selfish. How is that helpfull. For all you that will say "they should have saved for a rainy day like I did", then you probably don't remember when you started out, or were given your start.

Perhaps we should just let the government take care of them. Right... we all know how that is going to work out. First there is the bureaucracy that if you are patient enough to get through, then you may get you pittance, but will likely be 2 weeks to late (or later based on the garbage Congress pulls). The other issue is the government's money is your money, and they will be digging into your pocket deeper to pay for all this. Eventually, everything you have spent a lifetime saving will be in the governments hands to redistribute.

The governments have been getting more and more punitive as people are getting fed up being held back. What the fed, state, and local governments should have been doing when they first shut us down was start working with businesses to figure out ways to get back to work safely. Such as reconfigure work stations, sanitization, masks, and endorsing distancing to name just a few. In manufacturing when parts are being handled and passed down to the next person, perhaps have the parts sit in UV light for a short time prior to the next person handling the parts. The point is, they could have been more productive letting the great people of their states figure out how to get back to work safely, by feeding them with information on how to protect themselves, sharing best practices, and monitor to make sure businesses are following through. And perhaps even providing some (not all) funding to help them with the initial reconfiguration cost to start back up. If the governmental bodies had spent their time being helpful, instead of constantly looking for new ways to apply more pressure on peoples throat with their boot, then maybe we could have been going back to work after four weeks. Instead, they try to perpetuate the shut down by being deceitful, demeaning, threatening, and exaggerate to get the masses back in line. In Kentucky, I thought a church had a great idea - they held church in the parking lot. You could (and should) stay in you car and list to the service on the radio. Some people were really thinking this through, and found a way to be able to come together as a church during a bad situation. What did the local government do: they threatened arrests and put down nail spikes to keep them from doing it again. What should the local government done: congratulated them on their inventive approach to staying safe, and reminded the church they should police those that were trying to get together to closely with people outside there family. So they created more pent up anger. And that has been accumulating with ever stupid order that makes no sense or trivializes what they are going through.

Get out of peoples way; provide helpful data and advice; and let them figure out how to get it done. Then pass on best practices so everyone can get better at this. If you have the means and/or the necessity to stay home because you are at risk, then you should. And if more people are back to work, then taking care of people that have to stay home because they are at a higher risk becomes a lot easier to do.

Sorry for the rant.





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I agree, even coming at it from another viewpoint. We must open up businesses again. Period. If for no other reason that in this country medicine is a business, and we sure don't want those hospitals and doctors going under. Our position in the US is weaker than that in other countries because our health care system is still a shambles. We are going to be opening up from a much higher infection rate than some other countries. That dissension problem again.

What chaps my hide are the fools that want to undo what was gained at great cost to so many by the shutdown. What cheers me up are the people that think of workarounds to get things done safely. If groups like a barber's association got together (on Zoom or something) to come up with ways to run their businesses safely, and present it to the state legislators that would sure help. Whitmer is basically following the guidelines suggested by the CDC, and keeping her fingers crossed that Michiganders exhibit some common sense. Many of her ideas are probably good, but she lacks the people skills to put them across.

 

[conropl]

I agree, even coming at it from another viewpoint. We must open up businesses again. Period. If for no other reason that in this country medicine is a business, and we sure don't want those hospitals and doctors going under. Our position in the US is weaker than that in other countries because our health care system is still a shambles. We are going to be opening up from a much higher infection rate than some other countries. That dissension problem again.



What chaps my hide are the fools that want to undo what was gained at great cost to so many by the shutdown. What cheers me up are the people that think of workarounds to get things done safely. If groups like a barber's association got together (on Zoom or something) to come up with ways to run their businesses safely, and present it to the state legislators that would sure help. Whitmer is basically following the guidelines suggested by the CDC, and keeping her fingers crossed that Michiganders exhibit some common sense. Many of her ideas are probably good, but she lacks the people skills to put them across.

The fools will always be with us. If the fools have nothing to do, then they will do stupid things. Get them to work, keep them busy, and relieve their worries about eating and paying for there home; and they won't feel the need to go out and make foolish gestures just to get heard.

You have been in Michigan long enough to know the gun toting idiots never miss an opportunity to carry their guns to the capital for any cause to make a point or make a splash. They know they are going to get attention - which is why they do it. The have the right to open carry on state property (property that they own), and I support that right. But it does seem that it is a right that should be reserved for the proper time and not brandished willy nilly as a few idiots seem to do. Otherwise, they will loose that right also (as Whitmer is trying to do). However, the vast majority of the protesters are angry because no one seems to really care about what is happening to them (especially in areas that are pretty much untouched by the virus). We get a lot of slogans, but not a lot of useful help.

As far as Whitmer just following the CDC guidelines... I respectfully disagree. She started off blaming her inability to get anything done on the federal government. As far as I'm concerned, her only reason to exist (as governor) is to step up in a crisis and help us navigate through it. Instead she pointed fingers elsewhere. That didn't go over well with Michiganders, and she had to back track. Only then did she started digging in and getting help and getting things done (not without a few digs and nasty comments here and there). Then the silly orders started. To name a few.

- You could go fishing in a canoe or kayak, but not in a boat with a motor. That order started when the water temp around here was still in the thirties. Pretty dangerous going out in freezing cold water in a tipsy canoe or kayak. I could also go out in a 40 foot sail boat as long as it didn't have a motor. That ticked off a bunch of people. By the way, a lot of people feed there families with fish this time of year. The whole gas station scare was never data driven, and her time would have been better spent teaching people how to safely pump gas. It's not difficult... you even gave I little tutorial write up on how to do that. Why couldn't she have done that? Because she likes to pick winners and losers that fit her politics, and gas is bad. Why do you think the only way to fix roads according to her is with a 45 cent per gallon gas tax. Again, people got mad, and she had to back of to prevent a revolt.

- This one is the one most news people seem to get consistently wrong. She didn't ban buying seeds, plants, paint, flooring, etc. What she did was ban you from buying them at big box stores. You could go to the local hardware and small stores (under 50k sq ft) and buy those things. So she was forcing people from the larger stores and cramming them into smaller spaces to buy those things (doesn't seem wise). Again it seems like she is picking winners and losers. Big box stores are evil. However, in many rural areas, the big box stores are were ordinary people can go and get those things at a reasonable cost. People got mad, and she had to reverse that order.

- After the first 2 week shut down, she wanted to extend it 70 days. Our legislature said no... we will give you another 2 weeks and then re-evaluate. Then before the end of that 2 week order she started publicly saying she did not have to abide by the legislature and she was going to extend again with or without their approval... and she did. The legislature now has to sue to get her to stop. So I ask, what constitutes an emergency, and how long can she be a dictator? The way she has laid this out, she can create a state of emergency, and then dictate all sorts of orders to infringe on our rights indefinitely. I think that makes people upset. She never really worked with the legislature, but has no problem accusing them of being political.

- What are the specific metrics that allows us to open up. She gave a bunch of vague comments of things they are looking at, but no specifics. So yes, I agree with you, at best she is a bad communicator, at worst she has no clue what the specific metrics are. I really hate it when a bunch of people that have never remotely been involved in science now claim to to be all about science because they can find someone to agree with what they want to do. Her and the news folks are so sciencey. Laughable.

- The barber that could not get funding or unemployment decides he has to open to stay alive. She orders him arrested. The police refuse and it ends up in court where the judge says they cannot arrest him (I think at least until the legality of her recent orders are determined in court). So instead of going with the intent of the court order, she revokes his business license and imposes a fine of $1000 per haircut. If that holds up, it is going to destroy him. Seems pretty vindictive and petty to me.

Sorry, I am not going after you specifically, as you have been pretty reasonable and helpful with most of your responses. I just think Whitmer has created what's coming her way all by herself, and I am not willing to give her a pass when her bad decisions affect so many. I also believe if the protesters had not made such a national issue of her and her orders, we would not be looking at opening businesses back up right now. Once again, people got mad, and she had to back off.

Stay safe, and hopefully we can get things rolling again despite all the road blocks thrown in our way. As you know her main slogan when running for Govenor was "Fix the Damn Roads". Perhaps now it should be,

Remove the Damn Road Blocks.



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[sheepfarmer]

My basis for the guidelines comment was reading her staged plan for opening up and the one posted by the CDC. Pretty similar, but both short on details. As we all know the devil is in the details. No clue as to the rationale for the various decisions made as to what would be closed, and what not. Some seem strange to me. Re seed issue, it didn't seem to be available at either big box stores or small hardware when I looked around for some, but it was still too early to plant down here anyway so I ordered online. As for pot...there are some folks who claim it is medically necessary to manage their chemo nausea etc. The recreational use was voted in by some of our fellow citizens, so I suppose there you are...

I don't have enough information to defend the way things got rolled out here. I would defend that something had to be done about the barber in Owosso. It was pretty clear from tv clips that he was not operating safely, so she had to do something. There was a barber in New York that was also operating in defiance that later tested positive. It would be easy to start a hot spot at a barber shop or hair salon. Still wondering how to get a hair cut myself, my in the mirror trim is not the greatest

 

[conropl]

My basis for the guidelines comment was reading her staged plan for opening up and the one posted by the CDC. Pretty similar, but both short on details. As we all know the devil is in the details. No clue as to the rationale for the various decisions made as to what would be closed, and what not. Some seem strange to me. Re seed issue, it didn't seem to be available at either big box stores or small hardware when I looked around for some, but it was still too early to plant down here anyway so I ordered online. As for pot...there are some folks who claim it is medically necessary to manage their chemo nausea etc. The recreational use was voted in by some of our fellow citizens, so I suppose there you are...



I don't have enough information to defend the way things got rolled out here. I would defend that something had to be done about the barber in Owosso. It was pretty clear from tv clips that he was not operating safely, so she had to do something. There was a barber in New York that was also operating in defiance that later tested positive. It would be easy to start a hot spot at a barber shop or hair salon. Still wondering how to get a hair cut myself, my in the mirror trim is not the greatest

Hair cut was easy for me. Started clipping it myself until my wife came by and saw that it looked like I had mange. She finished and did a great job. I don't think she wanted to be seen with me if I did it myself.

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[sheepfarmer]

Here is a link to a review of some of the more recent findings. Notice that the right hand column in the tables points out the "caveats" of the studies, e.g. not yet in a peer reviewed study, preliminary data, small number of data points etc.

Aside from the drug trials, the most striking to me is the piece of information that the viral load peaks the day BEFORE the person is symptomatic. This is no big surprise, it is that way in other viral illnesses. Hence the need for everyone to wear masks so they don't breathe on someone and infect them before they run a temperature or feel sick.

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/930588

 

[Daren Todd]

Hair cut was easy for me. Started clipping it myself until my wife came by and saw that it looked like I had mange. She finished and did a great job. I don't think she wanted to be seen with me if I did it myself.

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I had a similar experience last weekend. They opened up barber shops and hair salons. But most are either booked out till the end of June or couldn't figure out timing and scheduling. So my 12:30 appointment was gonna turn into a 4:30. I told them to take me off the list.

I got fed up and had my son in law return my clippers. Then let my wife have at it

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[WFM]

I certainly believe in the right to keep and bear arms. I seldom leave my property without a handgun in my car or truck for safety. Or in Polaris ranger or on my Kubota for snakes when mowing.
I own many long guns too. Shotguns and hunting rifles and Ar's ect. But when I see folks walking around the capitol in many states protesting with an AR hanging off their back that's one thing I've never understood. I can't think of any situation where I would grab an AR and head to the capitol to protest.
I thing that's clear is the police can shoot you dead if deemed necessary. I was stopped in New Hampshire a couple years ago for going right on red. I put my window down and had both hands griping the top of the steering wheel when the officer approached. She was like 20 and her first question. 'Do you have any weapons in the truck ? ' lol.
But anyway. I see a gun as a tool and showing off a AR in a crowd of people is stupid. My opinion only of course.

 

[Daren Todd]

I had an interesting discussion with my doctor today. Asked him about the antibody test.

His answer was to save your money. They've run the test quite a few times. Only one person tested positive for the antibody. He actually questioned the positive test based on who the person was and their history.

I then asked him about the actual covid testing.

He actually gave me a very politically neutral answer. [emoji14] He openly questions the accuracy of the test based on what he and the doctors in his office have seen and experienced. Told me I could reach my own conclusion.

He brought up one of the doctors testing the nursing facility he also works with. 12 positive cases. Some of the patients that tested positive had very compromised immune systems.

All 12 cases were Asymptomatic.

I then brought up the nursing home in Little Rock that got hit really bad. My wife's friends with some of the employees and got the total numbers.

56 total that were infected. 12 employees and 44 patients. Some with highly compromised immune systems as well. Only 4 had symptoms. The other 52 cases were Asymptomatic.

They had 6 people die at the facility that had tested positive for the virus. Two were in the Asymptomatic category. One of those patients in the Asymptomatic catagory was 107 years old and on hospice. You can make up your own mind on that one

So either the testing is faulty, the virus isn't as serious as the doom and gloom on the news, or there is something regional that reduces the severity of the virus producing more Asymptomatic carriers.

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[D2Cat]

Daren, that's what I did also.... let the wife have at it!

 

[Daren Todd]

Daren, that's what I did also.... let the wife have at it!

Yeah, but your wife's a hair dresser [emoji14]

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[SidecarFlip]

I certainly believe in the right to keep and bear arms. I seldom leave my property without a handgun in my car or truck for safety. Or in Polaris ranger or on my Kubota for snakes when mowing.
I own many long guns too. Shotguns and hunting rifles and Ar's ect. But when I see folks walking around the capitol in many states protesting with an AR hanging off their back that's one thing I've never understood. I can't think of any situation where I would grab an AR and head to the capitol to protest.
I thing that's clear is the police can shoot you dead if deemed necessary. I was stopped in New Hampshire a couple years ago for going right on red. I put my window down and had both hands griping the top of the steering wheel when the officer approached. She was like 20 and her first question. 'Do you have any weapons in the truck ? ' lol.
But anyway. I see a gun as a tool and showing off a AR in a crowd of people is stupid. My opinion only of course.

An armed society is a polite society.... most times. I haven't been stopped in a long. long time but I know the drill. They (LE) know before they approach my vehicle I have a valid concealed carry permit and chances are I'm armed. I keep both hands in plain sight on the steerring wheel and answer politely but directly. I hold a FFL as well. The government knows all about me, nothing to hide.

I thought the 'show of arms 'at the Capitol in Lansing, Michigan was stupid as well. I did nothing positive for the demonstrators except show their ignorance. I don't participate in such shows. I don't need to. I'm an adult, least I think I am though sometimes my wife says otherwise.

 

[twomany]

Did anyone catch the POTUS deregulation Executive Order announced this evening?

I would say that the flu is behind us (or yet to be confronted)

Regarding the 2nd, A right unexercised is a right removed....

There used to be a fellow who lived in town. He would go out for both deer and turkey in season. Walking the few miles out and back each morning and evening dressed in hunting gear, with his rifle or shotgun slung on his back. This along the most used thoroughfare in our small town.
I don't see him over the past couple of years. Perhaps he passed.

I thought highly of that fellow.

 

[Boo]

Down here in the south where responses to this Covid-19 season have been different, my level of angst is going to be quite different from those who have been put under the heel of an overbearing mayor or governor. I am still unhappy with the response, but I think my thought patterns would be different if I lived in New York, Michigan, or California, etc. I won't call those who chose AR-bling for their demonstration "stupid." I think it is all a show of how angry they are and wanted politicians to realize that they know the purpose of the 2nd Amendment. Was it effective? I reckon not. But then, I don't feel as downtrodden as they probably do.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Just by the numbers... our "right to freedom" is very likely to kill a lot of us!

Well I guess we can be proud that we lead the numbers (by a huge margin) of infected cases and of deaths.

People can rant, rave, protest, march, party or bury their heads in the sand, but the true numbers will come out in the end!

 

[NHSleddog]

...
People can rant, rave, protest, march, party or bury their heads in the sand, but the true numbers will come out in the end!

That is hilarious. How are any "real" numbers going to come out when most of them are inaccurate to begin with?

My wife is a nurse and I have been hearing all kinds of things blamed on this flu that had nothing to do with it. Like the 96 year old lady in hospice since Nov. She did not die from this flu.

And how is it possible that all normal flu deaths in the country have stopped since Jan.? This is the clearest example of bad numbers. In my business we call it GIGO - garbage in, garbage out. If you start with inaccurate data, you can ONLY produce inaccurate data.

The only thing America is leading in with this flu is mis-information.

 

[dochsml]

That is hilarious. How are any "real" numbers going to come out when most of them are inaccurate to begin with?

My wife is a nurse and I have been hearing all kinds of things blamed on this flu that had nothing to do with it. Like the 96 year old lady in hospice since Nov. She did not die from this flu.

And how is it possible that all normal flu deaths in the country have stopped since Jan.? This is the clearest example of bad numbers. In my business we call it GIGO - garbage in, garbage out. If you start with inaccurate data, you can ONLY produce inaccurate data.

The only thing America is leading in with this flu is mis-information.

In court they would say Falsus in Uno, Falsus in Omnibus. If you lie once, nothing else you say that may be true can be trusted. It is a crime to provide a false statement to the government. Obstruction of justice is a crime. Perjury is a crime. But, it is a one way street. It is completely OK for an agent of the government to falsely claim to have a search warrant or claim that something bad will happen unless cooperation is obtained. With this in mind, it behooves us all to take what we are given as fact with a grain of salt. There will have to be another Deep Throat style investigation to uncover what is actually true.

 

[motionclone]

Just by the numbers... our "right to freedom" is very likely to kill a lot of us!

Well I guess we can be proud that we lead the numbers (by a huge margin) of infected cases and of deaths.

With all that freedom, the USA must be an extremely unsafe place to be in. Ill expect around half of the US population to leave immediately for a safer, less free country like those on your chart..lol

Thank god we are a constitutional republic and not a democracy