TRAILER SAFETY CHAINS

[GreensvilleJay]

re: I'm sure you meant 5th wheels do not use chains.

yes 'big rigs', 'semis', '10 wheelers', 'tractors', whatever you call trucks that haul 48' and 53' trailers. different names in different places , I suppose..
I had a Freighliner being stored here ( car hauler), so yes a '5th wheel'

 

[fried1765]

I run crossed chains. however I do not believe it will catch the trailer if it comes uncoupled most chains are longer then hitch is off the ground. crossed chains have advantage in tight turns. crossed chins will help move a trailer that has become detached. lifting the hitch once it is pulled on. safety chains are last resort devices and more effort should be placed on double checking that everything is properly hooked up prior to a trip. I'm also not getting bent out of place if others connect there chains straight.

Seems like the only one on here who got "bent out of place" is the one who refuses to accept hitch manufacturers crossed chain recommendations.

 

[Henro]

re: I'm sure you meant 5th wheels do not use chains.

yes 'big rigs', 'semis', '10 wheelers', 'tractors', whatever you call trucks that haul 48' and 53' trailers. different names in different places , I suppose..
I had a Freighliner being stored here ( car hauler), so yes a '5th wheel'

BUT isn't the hook up method quite different than a simple ball type hook up that most consumer and light duty trailers use?

I don't know myself, but imagine it is.

If so, then it is an apples to oranges comparison.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

There is only ONE connection between tractor and trailer. doesn't matter whether it's a ball and socket coupling,5th wheel pin, or a piece of string. Only ONE connection.

My point was/is that there are NO other connections, no straight chains, no crossed chains, nada,zip,zilch.
Lose the ONE connection and oopsy......

 

[Lil Foot]

Clearly you've never done any scientific research since being proven wrong is part of the scientific method .... duh!

Again, you know not of what you speak.
I spent 26 yrs working in a pure research group that DARPA auditors considered to be in the top 5 or 6 research organizations ON THE PLANET.

I have not personally seen a trailer "pole vault" after becoming un-hitched. (other than the afore mentioned coast guard video)

I have on two occasions flagged down people whose trailer had become un-hitched and it was so stable they did not realize it was not hitched. Amazingly enough, both of them had crossed chains. Go figure.

Now I did not have a film crew, Myth Busters, or the Guiness Book of World Records auditors, or Geraldo Rivera with me at those times, so they obviously did not happen.

I will now bow to your expertise in all things and agree that you, above all others, have proven your argument beyond the merest shadow of a doubt, and the rest of us are fools for ever having questioned your omniscience.

 

[Henro]

There is only ONE connection between tractor and trailer. doesn't matter whether it's a ball and socket coupling,5th wheel pin, or a piece of string. Only ONE connection.

My point was/is that there are NO other connections, no straight chains, no crossed chains, nada,zip,zilch.
Lose the ONE connection and oopsy......

I think it does matter.

The logic you are using would promote that a string is the same as a grade 8 chain, when towing or securing something, since there is only one connection...

If it were a string VS a high quality chain, which is most likely to fail under use? That was my point...certainly they are not equal in the real world, are they?

 

[GreensvilleJay]

My point is that NO 5th wheel tractor/trailer setup has MORE than the ONE connection joining trailer to tractor, period. ONE and only ONE connection.

So... IF having a 2nd and maybe 3rd connection is so dang important, WHY doesn't the government mandate by law that 'big rigs' have to have them ? I'm asking from a safety viewpoint NOT an actual implementation viewpoint.

 

[Biker1mike]

By the nature of design a fifth wheel is far more robust. They do have a secondary safety so the hitch will not open by itself.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

The same can be said about the 'ball coupler' used on most smaller trailers. In 5+ decades I've never had a failure..ie: coupler open and pop off the ball.
Both 'systems' are designed to function as required provided properly maintained.

 

[NCL4701]

I prefer my elevators without fall brakes, parachutes without backups, saws without chain brakes, trailers without chains, and if my Tinder hookup says she’s on the pill I can save a buck. Hmmm… maybe that last one was too far.

Redundancy in critical systems and components isn’t exactly unique. It’s a 5 second exercise to hook up a safety chain; just do it for goodness sake. But I’m not a scientist or engineer so I’ll shut up now.

And if anyone is so literal they believe all that, see post #10.

 

[Henro]

I prefer my elevators without fall brakes, parachutes without backups, saws without chain brakes, trailers without chains, and if my Tinder hookup says she’s on the pill I can save a buck. Hmmm… maybe that last one was too far.

Redundancy in critical systems and components isn’t exactly unique. It’s a 5 second exercise to hook up a safety chain; just do it for goodness sake. But I’m not a scientist or engineer so I’ll shut up now.

And if anyone is so literal they believe all that, see post #10.

I can believe most of that, but think there are reasons not to save a buck with a stranger, even if a pill is involved...

 

[hagrid]

Great thread! Lots of energetic thoughts and experiences being vigorously defended.

May I suggest using enhanced punctuation to moar effectively emphasize one's position? Sprinkle in an exclamation point tither and yon.

Another secret technique, that only I know, is to type selected WORDS in all caps. It really ACCENTUATES the point I'm trying to CONVEY!!

 

[Freeheeler]

Hopefully the crossed vs uncrossed dilemma will be answered in the exciting 'off topic' thread

 

[Freeheeler]

Nevermind. The answer they gave was neither practical nor philosophically enlightening

 

[Henro]

Great thread! Lots of energetic thoughts and experiences being vigorously defended.

May I suggest using enhanced punctuation to moar effectively emphasize one's position? Sprinkle in an exclamation point tither and yon.

Another secret technique, that only I know, is to type selected WORDS in all caps. It really ACCENTUATES the point I'm trying to CONVEY!!

I was NEVER good at Anglish in the classroom, but I will TRY to do BETTER in FUTURE posts...lOl...or is that LoL...LOL...

 

[Bmyers]

I have tried to see if Illinois law has any requirements about crossed vs uncrossed, yet only I have found thus far is you have to have two safety chains. Yet, as with anything, I could of missed it in the State law.

Reading the arguments on both sides, it seems like the important factor is to make sure you hookup your trailer correctly from the onset to prevent you from having to find out which is the correct method, crossed or uncrossed.

 

[Freeheeler]

I was really hoping Zetah would have answered this philosophical conundrum in his off topic thread. I'm beginning to think he's not as enlightened as he thinks If you think this thread is entertaining, go check his out.

 

[PoTreeBoy]

Is this going to become 'pallets in fields'?

 

[mcmxi]

Redundancy in critical systems and components isn’t exactly unique. It’s a 5 second exercise to hook up a safety chain; just do it for goodness sake. But I’m not a scientist or engineer so I’ll shut up now.

At no point have I advocated not using safety chains. I have repeatedly said that the one size fits all advice to crossing safety chains is moronic since there are so many different configurations in terms of chain mounting points to the trailer, hook locations on the tow vehicle, tongue length etc. I've also made the point that no one has shown that crossing chains actually does anything to make anyone safer in the event that the trailer decouples from the ball. More opinion, no data ... as usual.

There are a number of important things to think about when towing and I will continue to focus on those just as I did yesterday towing an M6060 600 miles over four mountain passes and many, many hills. The chains were attached but not crossed the entire trip. How reckless of me, but then again I spend most of my time in two states where independent thought is encouraged.

All of you warm and fuzzy safety police here can pat yourselves on the back for taking the extra 10 seconds to cross the chains and feel good about yourselves for doing something meaningless. How many of you confirm the tongue weight, a meaningful endeavor? 6" forwards or backwards on a trailer can make 5% or more difference in tongue weight. How many stop on a scale to check loaded truck weight, and loaded trailer weight? I did both of those things this past weekend in addition to securing the tractor with four chains and four binders. How many here tow with two, or even secure a tractor with nylon straps. But your chains are crossed so you're good right.

Finally, companies often print instructions for litigious purposes that aren't based on empirical data but rather because the legal department told them to do so.

All of these posts and not one documented case of crossed chains preventing much worse from happening.

 

[mcmxi]

OK, here is a second challenge: Get a life!

I have a life. Come visit and I'll tell you all about it.