Torque Wrenches

[TheOldHokie]

Next thing I know theres going to some discussion of how a torque wrench is only reading the actual torque while it is moving (coefficients of kinetic and static friction apparently being different or some such phenomenon). And then I’ll start thinking I have to loosen a fastener and retighten it to really know what torque it’s at vs. like they do at the tire shop with a clicker torque wrench that clicks as soon as they push on it after the air gun has had a go at it.

Alas, we do like to stomp mud holes in seemingly simple inquiries.

All true and to throw even more mud on the question of torque no matter how accurate the wrench is torque is a horribly inaccurate way to measure fastener preload which is what we are actually trying to do.

I am old enough to be a practioner of the GudenTite school of wrenching for most things. My torque wrenches are reserved for a few applications that actually benefit from their use.

Dan

 

[GeoHorn]

IMHO: You get what you pay for. For my basic home owner use I have an old beam type. It is close enough for the work I do. If I am paying the shop price of over a 100 bucks an hour I expect them to have far higher quality tools with tighter tolerances.
That being said , a really nice set of tools would be more than the resale price of my old B.

Beam types are actually more useful than “click” types, IMO. An example is when bearing pre-loads are being measured on rotating gear-sets. A click type will not measure the resistance a bearing is offering while being turned. A beam type not only will do ALL jobs…it will do them more accurately and will not lose it’s accuracy over time like a click-type can.

I have clickers in in-lb in 1/4” drive and ft-lb in 3/8” and 1/2” and 3/4” drives…and in-lb 1/4” drive and ft’lb in 1/2” drive beam wrenches.

 

[Flintknapper]

Next thing I know theres going to some discussion of how a torque wrench is only reading the actual torque while it is moving (coefficients of kinetic and static friction apparently being different or some such phenomenon). And then I’ll start thinking I have to loosen a fastener and retighten it to really know what torque it’s at vs. like they do at the tire shop with a clicker torque wrench that clicks as soon as they push on it after the air gun has had a go at it.

Alas, we do like to stomp mud holes in seemingly simple inquiries.

Well....there actually is Static and Dynamic torque (as you know). The dynamic torque (with respect to threads) being something less than the static/break-away torque of the fastener.

Hopefully they used 'torque sticks' at the tire shop before double checking with a torque wrench, or better yet...used the torque wrench to begin with.

 

[GrizBota]

All true and to throw even more mud on the question of torque no matter how accurate the wrench is torque is a horribly inaccurate way to measure fastener preload which is what we are actually trying to do.

I am old enough to be a practioner of the GudenTite school of wrenching for most things. My torque wrenches are reserved for a few applications that actually benefit from their use.

Dan

And right along the lines of not actually accurately getting at stress in the faster itself, is the cardinal sin of them all, lubricating a faster for which the torque is a dry torque spec!

Myself, I don’t think any space shuttles will fall out of the sky or tractor wheels will pass my by if I use my Harbor Freight torque wrench on my tractors.

 

[GrizBota]

Well....there actually is Static and Dynamic torque (as you know). The dynamic torque (with respect to threads) being something less than the static/break-away torque of the fastener.

Hopefully they used 'torque sticks' at the tire shop before double checking with a torque wrench, or better yet...used the torque wrench to begin with.

I’m more of a pessimist realist than a hoper. So we both know what’s really being done at most tire shops. Air gun until it’s good and over torqued (to at least some degree) followed by “click”, yup it’s good, check the box. I might just be that guy that resets all the lugs when I get it back home.

 

[Fordtech86]

If I am paying the shop price of over a 100 bucks an hour I expect them to have far higher quality tools with tighter tolerances.

You do realize the monkeys in the back are the ones paying for these tools and we definitely ain’t getting that $100+ an hour pay

 

[fried1765]

All true and to throw even more mud on the question of torque no matter how accurate the wrench is torque is a horribly inaccurate way to measure fastener preload which is what we are actually trying to do.

I am old enough to be a practioner of the GudenTite school of wrenching for most things. My torque wrenches are reserved for a few applications that actually benefit from their use.

Dan

Agreed.
I have been a GutenTite discipile for my entire life.
I only use a torque wrench for engine head bolts, and a very few other applications.

 

[ferguson]

Please tell me if you are typing on a phone with autocorrect, or if you really believe that the store has its own police department.

AUTOCORRECT

 

[Flintknapper]

I’m more of a pessimist realist than a hoper. So we both know what’s really being done at most tire shops. Air gun until it’s good and over torqued (to at least some degree) followed by “click”, yup it’s good, check the box. I might just be that guy that resets all the lugs when I get it back home.

Agreed.

 

[GeoHorn]

Disrespect for mfr’r specifications is ignorance…and that’s all I’m going to say about that.

 

[Hyperborean]

You forgot about the the Snap-On torque wrenches that beep and vibrate when the requested torque is reached.

I love my 1/2" drive Snap-on ATECH with the flex head. Was it expensive, yes, but "buy once, cry once". It's my HELPeR for getting my torque checks done quickly.

For me, paying the money for high quality tools is worth it since their price is minuscule to price of equipment they are used one and to my own sanity if a low quality tool fails me during use; replacing a cheap tool is not worth the time (delayed project completion, driving to/shipping out a replacement, etc.) and frustration.

 

[fried1765]

Disrespect for mfr’r specifications is ignorance…and that’s all I’m going to say about that.

Mfg. specs. are sometimes attorney driven, and may not always have an engineering, or logical basis.

 

[rc51stierhoff]

At work we use them religiously. The last time I did not use a torque wrench personally (quick wheel change…absolutely no execute), I realized I was an idiot coming out of a key hole on an RC51 riding on the edge (no wanker strips). There is nothing worse than banging 2nd WFO and realizing the rear axle is sloppy and hoping chain does not go to hell before the front wheel is back on the tarmac. (It’s a lot harder than you think to tighten a rear axle…tire usually will spin before the right torque is achieved unless there is a chock or something putting enough weight to hold wheel in place. Anyways to each their own but torque is an ounce of prevention (yield a pound of cure)…may not realize it until worse condition. Keep the rubber side down.

 

[cthomas]

I remember doing this with a 1/2 breaker bar. It is torque to 359 foot pounds if I remember correctly.

 

[jimh406]

I really like this Husky from Home Depot. I have no idea why it's so cheap, but it's the best one I've used. Note: I'm not a mechanic.

It's more than needed for my L2501, but I bought it for a pull behind mower than needed 220 ft lbs to tighten a spindle.

Husky 50 ft./lbs. to 250 ft./lbs. 1/2 in. Drive Torque Wrench H2DTWA-03 - The Home Depot

The Husky 1/2 in. Click Torque Wrench is made of alloy steel construction for strength and long-lasting performance. Its ergonomically designed handle easily turns to set torque. The finish provides resistance

www.homedepot.com

 

[Fordtech86]

I remember doing this with a 1/2 breaker bar. It is torque to 359 foot pounds if I remember correctly.
View attachment 107304

flip that bar around to the other side On the ground and use the engine power to bust it loose . semi-joking

 

[GeoHorn]

Mfg. specs. are sometimes attorney driven, and may not always have an engineering, or logical basis.

Respectfully, I strongly disagree. Co. attorneys do not disregard engineering data to defend product. They RELY upon it.

 

[Watchmaker]

Respectfully, I strongly disagree. Co. attorneys do not disregard engineering data to defend product. They RELY upon it.

I agree with your first post on this part of the topic. Does anyone REALLY think that manufacturers fail to understand static vs moving friction? Torque wrench tolerances? Dry vs lubricated (never seize)? That they are responsible for work done to spec by authorized mechanics at the dealerships?

Similar discussions among "watchmakers" who use Mobil 1 because it is cheaper and they know better than the maker. No understanding of the capability among the minimum of 6 different lubes used in the same watch case (volatiles) or the research done regarding long term effects of which lubes do least after 5 years. Or the guy who decides that brass grows and starts filing something that has worked for 100 years but he can't reassemble.

 

[Flintknapper]

Similar discussions among "watchmakers" who use Mobil 1 because it is cheaper and they know better than the maker. No understanding of the capability among the minimum of 6 different lubes used in the same watch case (volatiles) or the research done regarding long term effects of which lubes do least after 5 years. Or the guy who decides that brass grows and starts filing something that has worked for 100 years but he can't reassemble.

^^^^^^

What......!

You mean I shouldn't 'tinker' with this?

 

[fried1765]

^^^^^^

What......!

You mean I shouldn't 'tinker' with this?

View attachment 107454
View attachment 107455

Absolutely DO NOT tinker with that old thing.
You should sell it to me for $50!