Tight front crankshaft fan drive pulley bolt M4500DT

[TheOldHokie]

I am willing to try any penetrant but nothing will reach the thread I wouldn't think because it has such a wide washer as part of the hex head. it would need to penetrate 3/4 of an inch to even get to the thread.
I can only see heat or freezing to free up the threads. Maybe the new pulley holder tool will work with a bit of heat first, then try and work it to and fro. if not when I go to the hardware they have the mouse milk. I will get some anyway for the other jobs it will work on. Thanks for the tip.

I would bet against the bolt being frozen - its just tight.

Dan

 

[Fishfarmer]

I would bet against the bolt being frozen - its just tight.

Dan

No I meant use freezing. they use liquid nitrogen to remove pins sleeves etc, probably not on this it would make the bolt too brittle and bust. My temperature here where i live is 39c lately. That's a 102F. I realize some threads worry about their tractors being frozen, if only I could have nice cool temperatures like that over here. You can fry eggs on your hood here

 

[TheOldHokie]

No I meant use freezing. they use liquid nitrogen to remove pins sleeves etc, probably not on this it would make the bolt too brittle and bust. My temperature here where i live is 39c lately. That's a 102F. I realize some threads worry about their tractors being frozen, if only I could have nice cool temperatures like that over here. You can fry eggs on your hood here

Not frozen as in threads not corroded or galled. Its just TIGHT.

Dan

 

[Fishfarmer]

Not frozen as in threads not corroded or galled. Its just TIGHT.

Dan

I do understand Dan but why so tight, I have 4 foot bar and it wont crack, but i haven't used it against the pulley tool, I will make up. The heat Gehorn mentioned free up tight nuts from expansion, I have used oxy before to do this with nuts, the tractor has lived on a property a few miles from the ocean all of its life so some corrosion may have got under the hex washer on the bolt and rusted that part tight. Yes I imagine the thread itself is fine. but rust under the washer has made the bolt even tighter on its thread I would think?

 

[TheOldHokie]

I do understand Dan but why so tight, I have 4 foot bar and it wont crack, but i haven't used it against the pulley tool, I will make up. The heat Gehorn mentioned free up tight nuts from expansion, I have used oxy before to do this with nuts, the tractor has lived on a property a few miles from the ocean all of its life so some corrosion may have got under the hex washer on the bolt and rusted that part tight. Yes I imagine the thread itself is fine. but rust under the washer has made the bolt even tighter on its thread I would think?

I thought you were having trouble holding the pulley.

Dan

 

[Fishfarmer]

I thought you were having trouble holding the pulley.

Dan

I do, the tractor was in high gear, handbrake, and I also have a chain holding the pulley but it was all still turning, even the back wheels were moving a bit so I got scared that I would ruin a spline or damage the crank so I was going to make this tool, a steel plate to bolt in to the three bolts on the pulley and long enough to the reach the floor. Then the breaker bar on the nut with a bit more force. If it still doesn't free up then I could borrow an impact wrench and try that. But this is real tight. It has a 36mm socket nut and then the washer size around it would be 2 inch. I imagine that's whats stopping it binding over such a large area.
That's why last resort Geohorn said some heat. I might need to replace the oil seal and oring but it has to come off and I don't want to shear it, unless you can think of another way?

 

[TheOldHokie]

I do, the tractor was in high gear, handbrake, and I also have a chain holding the pulley but it was all still turning, even the back wheels were moving a bit so I got scared that I would ruin a spline or damage the crank so I was going to make this tool, a steel plate to bolt in to the three bolts on the pulley and long enough to the reach the floor. Then the breaker bar on the nut with a bit more force. If it still doesn't free up then I could borrow an impact wrench and try that. But this is real tight. It has a 36mm socket nut and then the washer size around it would be 2 inch. I imagine that's whats stopping it binding over such a large area.
That's why last resort Geohorn said some heat. I might need to replace the oil seal and oring but it has to come off and I don't want to shear it, unless you can think of another way?

Its a big azz fastener tightened to 115 lb-ft (???) and possibly with some corrosion under the head. Get an impact wrench and put the juice to it. You are not going to twist it off. Just the opposite. With a fastener that size your gun may not be up to the task.

Dan

 

[fried1765]

Sounds like a job for an impact wrench.

Dan

Yep!
3/4" dirve impact wrench, with 3/4" impact (black) socket!

 

[Fishfarmer]

Its a big azz fastener tightened to 115 lb-ft (???) and possibly with some corrosion under the head. Get an impact wrench and put the juice to it. You are not going to twist it off. Just the opposite. With a fastener that size your gun may not be up to the task.

Dan

Its a big azz fastener tightened to 115 lb-ft (???) and possibly with some corrosion under the head. Get an impact wrench and put the juice to it. You are not going to twist it off. Just the opposite. With a fastener that size your gun may not be up to the task.

Dan

36mm socket with 16mm thread 159 foot pounds

 

[TheOldHokie]

36mm socket with 16mm thread 159 foot pounds

Let me give you some context. I make special tools for Little British Cars. The rear axle hub on a TR4 is a taper fit and requires a special puller. My pusher screw is 3/4" and it rourinely stalls my 350 lb-ft Ingersol impact wrench. I have had a 3' cheater bar on the end of a 30" 3/4" breaker bar on that screw and still not wrung it off. However I did break my ankle when the taper did finally part and I was not prepared for it and took a nasty fall.

You are dealing with a hefty stubborn fastener. BF&I is a proven solution. A 1/2" impact wrench may well come up short.

Dan

 

[Fishfarmer]

Yep!
3/4" dirve impact wrench, with 3/4" impact (black) socket!

I have the black socket only 1/2 inch drive, I use on the tractor wheel nuts. 3/4 drive on my truck but its a ratchet wrench, no impact wrench. I guess the big gun stuff will do it.
If my pulley bar idea doesn't work I will see if I can borrow a big impact wrench. Thanks

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Ok, 1st time I read this, I'm thinking 'fan blade' bolt..but really it's the crankshaft pulley that ned to come off?
If it needs a 36mm socket, yeah, it'll take some serious torque to remove. I've had 6' bar on 5/8" bolts before they'd 'crack' (impact wasn't powerful enough...)

Dumb question.... ANY chance it's a LEFT hand threaded bolt ???? Can anyone CONFIRM ? cause it just might be.

 

[woodsy]

Yeah that is a different set up than the L series re bolt vs nut.
the end of my drive shaft is threaded with a nut IIRC.
160 ft ibs ! My 150 psi compressor probably couldn't touch
that one. Apoligize for sticking my nose where it don't belong. Good luck with it.

 

[Fishfarmer]

I have the black socket only 1/2 inch drive, I use on the tractor wheel nuts. 3/4 drive on my truck but its a ratchet wrench, no impact wrench. I guess the big gun stuff will do it.
If my pulley bar idea doesn't work I will see if I can borrow a big impact wrench. T

Let me give you some context. I make special tools for Little British Cars. The rear axle hub on a TR4 is a taper fit and requires a special puller. My pusher screw is 3/4" and it rourinely stalls my 350 lb-ft Ingersol impact wrench. I have had a 3' cheater bar on the end of a 30" 3/4" breaker bar on that screw and still not wrung it off. However I did break my ankle when the taper did finally part and I was not prepared for it and took a nasty fall.

You are dealing with a hefty stubborn fastener. BF&I is a proven solution. A 1/2" impact wrench may well come up short.

Dan

Not used to abbreviations, do you mean brute force and ignorance? I already did that and fell over when the cheap 1/2" bar snapped at the socket trying with the bar and a pipe, fortunately I didn't hurt myself like you :-( I think an even longer pipe I would have more control over with a fixer on the pulley and just might get it. I think fried1765 is on the right track using the big impact driver with the 3/4 drive but I don't know who has one. I will see first when I can fix the pulley solid. It was very springy the way i was trying and there is therefore back force which broke the socket wrench. Whats your thoughts.?BF&I if it is what I think your saying don't go about it that way, so is there a solution?

 

[Fishfarmer]

Ok, 1st time I read this, I'm thinking 'fan blade' bolt..but really it's the crankshaft pulley that ned to come off?
If it needs a 36mm socket, yeah, it'll take some serious torque to remove. I've had 6' bar on 5/8" bolts before they'd 'crack' (impact wasn't powerful enough...)

Dumb question.... ANY chance it's a LEFT hand threaded bolt ???? Can anyone CONFIRM ? cause it just might be.

Not so dumb, I wasn't sure so I went clockwise as well because sometimes tightening can free a bolt.
It was still tough if it is left hand, I will research to make sure but cant find anything so far, so I assume its right hand. Wolfman commented on someone else that had so much trouble he almost had to chisel it off. He said it was right hand thread but I don't know if all Kubotas are?

 

[Fishfarmer]

Yeah that is a different set up than the L series re bolt vs nut.
the end of my drive shaft is threaded with a nut IIRC.
160 ft ibs ! My 150 psi compressor probably couldn't touch
that one. Apoligize for sticking my nose where it don't belong. Good luck with it.

No need to apologize Woodsy, everyone trying to help here. Thanks I will get it or snap it, I am a stubborn old mule. Then drilling and easy out and tapping. I don't want to go there hopefully. I think if it did snap the threaded part would come out easier. I think it seized on that giant washer.

 

[JohnDB]

The engine spins clockwise, when viewed from crank pulley end. Left hand thread would make sense in terms of engineering, but maybe the tightening torque of 145-160 ft.lb and the tabbed washer is Kubota's way of making sure that a RH threaded bolt is secure in that application. No thread direction is mentioned in the WSM so I'd guess its RH thread.

 

[Daren Todd]

Yeah that is a different set up than the L series re bolt vs nut.
the end of my drive shaft is threaded with a nut IIRC.
160 ft ibs ! My 150 psi compressor probably couldn't touch
that one. Apoligize for sticking my nose where it don't belong. Good luck with it.

Don't mistake 150 psi with torque. Your average compressor puts out somewhere between 130 and 150 psi as an industry standard.

An impact gun is rated for torque using 90psi of air.

For example my snapon 1/2" impact will generate 800ft/lbs of torque tightening, or 1100ft/lbs loosening being fed with 90psi of air.

Shop Air is 150psi

 

[Fishfarmer]

Don't mistake 150 psi with torque. Your average compressor puts out somewhere between 130 and 150 psi as an industry standard.

An impact gun is rated for torque using 90psi of air.

For example my snapon 1/2" impact will generate 800ft/lbs of torque tightening, or 1100ft/lbs loosening being fed with 90psi of air.

Shop Air is 150psi

Surely its not 1100 foot pounds tight, so I cant see why it wouldn't work even with half inch drive. I have never used one but sometimes the car tire guys go a bit tight with them and you need a bar on the wheel brace to fix a flat.

 

[Daren Todd]

Surely its not 1100 foot pounds tight, so I cant see why it wouldn't work even with half inch drive. I have never used one but sometimes the car tire guys go a bit tight with them and you need a bar on the wheel brace to fix a flat.

1100ftlbs breaking force (reverse). 800lb tightening force.

Any tire guy worth a salt uses what they call a torque stick. It's a colored extension. Each color represents a certain ft/lbs torque.

Your pickups usually torque between 140 and 150 ft/lbs depending on the make/model.

Most cars are somewhere around 100 ft/lbs give or take.

Any tire guy worth is salt would check the manual if they don't know the torque specs for the vehicle they are working on.