Some of you may remember my Post about my B2601 breaking in half!

[Egressman]

This is even more enlightening / concerning as yes all four systems (FEL, HST, Steering, Three point) use the same hydraulic loop to make them work.
Any issue with one in line can effect everything else.
How did you bypass / go around the broken three point control?

Wolfman, I understand what you mean by bypassing the system for the 3 pt!

The hyd system on the tractor is not what I would call a closed system. As in if you open one of the four you would need to bypass it. The other 3, Steering, bucket, and travel all function fine without the Hyd Control Valve functioning for the 3pt operation.

So, that being said, what would you check/trubble shoot next if the PTO is turning fine even if the tractor won't move or bucket operation.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Let me clarify something, what did you have to change to get the three point valve or piping to stop the valve from leaking?

 

[Egressman]

Let me clarify something, what did you have to change to get the three point valve or piping to stop the valve from leaking?

The valve is above the main resorvor. if, which I don't belive it dose, buy fluid would just recycle. But, before we spend a bunch of time on this, trust me when I say, there is no bypass or anything I had to do to keep the tractor doing everything else. It is independent of the other functions. Might be designed like that otherwise you would be dead in the water id the 3pt failed.

 

[ACDII]

If this tractor is anything like the B2410, there are actually 3 hydraulic pumps in operation. Looking through the shop manual, there is a power steering pump and the 3PT pump which is also the one for the loader and any rears as the PTO is the last in line.

The third is the HST pump. The hydraulic system of the HST is separate from the others, but all use the same sump for fluid. Older tractors like mine used a clutch to engage, disengage the PTO, newer ones use electric clutches so no manual is needed. Sounds like the OP's issue is with the internal hydraulic system, and will need to crack the case to find the problem IF it is not a clogged screen.

Waiting on the verdict of that.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

The valve is above the main resorvor. if, which I don't belive it dose, buy fluid would just recycle. But, before we spend a bunch of time on this, trust me when I say, there is no bypass or anything I had to do to keep the tractor doing everything else. It is independent of the other functions. Might be designed like that otherwise you would be dead in the water id the 3pt failed.

Yes fluid is supposed to flow through the three point control and dump into the sump.

If you stopped flow to the three point control in any way shape or form, you have put the system into relief.
Yes everything else would work for awhile, not the way it's supposed to, but it would work.
If you did that it will cause everything in the system to work harder.

You seem to not want to answer how you bypassed or plugged the leak on the three point control so I think were done.

My last words on this are: Your issues could very well be caused by an alteration to the system.

 

[Henro]

It would be common courtesy to post a link to a thread you referred to.

I think this is it...

My B2601 broke in half!

So, learned a MAJOR lesson today. When I connected the tractor back together I made sure the two drive shafts hit their mark. However, I separated the two in half a second time and I failed to verify the shafts were correct. Front wheels were blocked and I had the back off the ground...

www.orangetractortalks.com

 

[Egressman]

Let me clarify something, what did you have to change to get the three-point valve or piping to stop the valve from leaking?

Absolutely nothing! 3Pt is not in a "LOOP" with the rest of the system. It operates independently of them. There is no bypass, no hose patched in, no lines capped, no ports plugged, nothing. The hyd control valve (010 picture 2) only operates the 3pt. it was stuck inside the case by the 3pt hyd piston connecting arm (050 on 9a).

Picture 8 shows where the Hyd control valve was cracked.

Picture 9 explains how it was cracked.

Picture 7 shows the connection point of the control valve with the Hyd cyl Case, this piston is what raises and lowers the 3pt.

There is no bypass, nothing was done to keep the steering, motion, and bucket operation working for the last 6 months before I got a new control valve ($700).

Just as Wolfman said there is no clutch, believe me when I say there is no bypass! lol

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Absolutely nothing! 3Pt is not in a "LOOP" with the rest of the system.

Sorry but the three point control is absolutely in the Loop of the hydraulic system.
If you've removed the valve or left it leaking it 100% just dumping fluid (bypassing) in an uncontrolled fashion.
And you don't see the bypass because it just dumps the fluid back into the sump.

 

[Egressman]

It would be common courtesy to post a link to a thread you referred to.

I think this is it...

My B2601 broke in half!

So, learned a MAJOR lesson today. When I connected the tractor back together I made sure the two drive shafts hit their mark. However, I separated the two in half a second time and I failed to verify the shafts were correct. Front wheels were blocked and I had the back off the ground...

www.orangetractortalks.com

Did you start at the top? Did you jump in in the middle and only address what you think is wrong with the way the post is posted? Isn't smart to start at the beginning so you don't miss important information?

 

[Egressman]

View attachment 74977

Sorry but the three point control is absolutely in the Loop of the hydraulic system.
If you've removed the valve or left it leaking it 100% just dumping fluid (bypassing) in an uncontrolled fashion.
And you don't see the bypass because it just dumps the fluid back into the sump.

I'm not sure what you want me to say so we can get pass this?

"If you've removed the valve or left it leaking it 100% just dumping fluid (bypassing) in an uncontrolled fashion.
And you don't see the bypass because it just dumps the fluid back into the sump."

If you would like to say it is bypassing the 3pt system then I am okay with that.
Background:
This has happened 3 times (Hyd Control Valve getting struck) The 1st time my 3pt stopped working so I broke open the case, found the valve casting cracked, removed the valve and welded it back together, relocated the mounting hole, and installed new O rings, reassembled and everything worked perfectly. The tractor functioned as advertised.

2nd time: I was lifting a hay bail with the 3pt spear, it failed so I drove the tractor home and broke the case and found the weld was broken so I ordered a new valve. I installed the new valve, the tractor was new again.

3rd time: I was using the box scraper and it stopped again. That was 6 months ago, I have used the tractor almost every day as a loader, landscape mower, and brush hog. Two of those attach to the 3 point but do not require it to be raised or lowered. That brings us to 3 weeks ago, the 3pt was not working all summer but I just didn't feel like tearing it apart again. I also had shoulder surgery so I have been unable to lift more than 20 lbs currently.

Here is the surprise, because of the accident I didn't investigate WHY the connecting arm struck the valve the first two times. It wasn't until it broke the new valve the 3rd time that I realized it was not the valve failing (cracking) it was the rod hitting the valve. I ground a relief in the piston control arm. The new valve was welded and that weld failed. So here I am, 3pt not working and now the tractor motion. steering and bucket have started to fail.

I have a new Hyd Control Valve ready to install, before I break the case open again I wanted to find out what was going on now with the steering, bucket, and movement.

So here we are!

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

WAIT, You said the valve

I know my Hyd Control valve for the 3 pt in not working. That's a separate issue I am going to deal with when I open the case up. The shaft for the upper link arms was striking the Hyd Control valve. When it did it broke the cast mounting point for the valve. That allowed the o ring to be blown out and pressure would escape from under the valve. This caused the 3 pt to become non-operational.

Removed the valve and welded it back together, relocated the mounting hole and installed new O rings, reassembled and everthing worked perfect. Tractor functioned as advertised.

I'm completely confused by your statements!
First you state the valve is broken, then the next you say it isn't broken, which is it?????

You've fought me on every detail, clutch / no clutch, hydraulic valve broken / hydraulic valve not broken!
I've tried to no avail to help, as details in issues matter to the complete cause and effect.

A broken hydraulic valve and subsequently the entire hydraulic system is not going to perform the same or properly, as would a NON broken hydraulic valve and subsequently the entire hydraulic system!

I'm going to egress this thread, maybe someone else can make sense of all this!

 

[Egressman]

View attachment 74977

Sorry but the three point control is absolutely in the Loop of the hydraulic system.
If you've removed the valve or left it leaking it 100% just dumping fluid (bypassing) in an uncontrolled fashion.
And you don't see the bypass because it just dumps the fluid back into the sump.

Can you show me where the 3pt hyd control valve is on this drawing, please? I am referring to item 10 in this drawing?

No code has to be inserted here.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Yep that's right #10 is the 3 point control valve.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Did you start at the top? Did you jump in in the middle and only address what you think is wrong with the way the post is posted? Isn't smart to start at the beginning so you don't miss important information?

You're originally posted link to the thread had people looking at page 2 of your other thread.
I've changed the link so now they do start at the beginning like you state.

 

[Egressman]

WAIT, You said the valve




I'm completely confused by your statements!
First you state the valve is broken, then the next you say it isn't broken, which is it?????

You've fought me on every detail, clutch / no clutch, hydraulic valve broken / hydraulic valve not broken!
I've tried to no avail to help, as details in issues matter to the complete cause and effect.

A broken hydraulic valve and subsequently the entire hydraulic system is not going to perform the same or properly, as would a NON broken hydraulic valve and subsequently the entire hydraulic system!

I'm going to egress this thread, maybe someone else can make sense of all this!

Can you show me where the 3pt hyd control valve is on this drawing, please? I am referring to item 10 in this drawing?

No code has to be inserted here.

Do I dare say I don't have a backhoe?

 

[Egressman]

Do I dare say I don't have a backhoe?

Again, I AM NOT A TRACTOR MECHANIC. "I fought you over the clutch", how about I pressed you for information because I DID NOT UNDERSTAND. I AM NOT A TRACTOR MECHANIC, the parts breakdown made me assume there were two clutches, Then some other guy thinks I have been "Shifting" by using my duel brake pedal lol.


Anyways, I understand there are not two clutches in here only one and it runs the pto, I have held that in my hands.

I'm not sure what you would like me to say to make you happy. My tractor has two problems right now, I know and have the part to fix the 3pt. I came on here to solicit help on fixing or troubleshooting the second problem before I tear apart the tractor, but we can get there. I don't disagree the problems by your knowledge are connected.

You can talk theory all day, but I can tell you first hand that all of this stuff happens inside the case of the B2601, I did nothing to make the tractor continue to operate the steering, bucket, and motion. Remember, I AM NOT A TRACTOR MECHANIC! And it has done so for several months.

 

[Egressman]

Yep that's right #10 is the 3 point control valve.

#10 on the drawing is the Hyd control valve for a backhoe, not the 3pt. #21 is actually the hyd control valve for the 3pt. Just so we are comparing apples to apples!

 

[Egressman]

Can you show me where the 3pt hyd control valve is on this drawing, please? I am referring to item 10 in this drawing?

No code has to be inserted here.

I have some clarity on this now, there are two hyd circuits, one controls the motion, steering, and bucket. The 2nd controls the 3pt. So, does that mean they are not connected in a series, can the 3pt operate or not operate independently of the other 3? This would explain why I was able to continue to operate the tractor as a 3wd HST frontend loader instead of a tractor!

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Circuit 1: #3 on the picture runs the steering and then the PTO control.
It does not control the feed directly to the HST.

HST, is run by a separate pump just to the right of the M (tractor's motor) on the picture

Circuit 2: #2 on the picture runs the Loader, the BH if equipped, and the three point.

At the words where it says "one path or the other" is where it would route through a BH if Equipped (up facing line), if not equipped with a BH then it goes to the three point control (right hand path).

The reason all this matters is that if there is an issue in either Circuit #1 or Circuit #2 it does effect the fluid that is also shared by the HST.

One issue can be foaming of the fluid.

 

[Egressman]

Circuit 1: #3 on the picture runs the steering and then the PTO control.
It does not control the feed directly to the HST.

HST, is run by a separate pump just to the right of the M (tractor's motor) on the picture

Circuit 2: #2 on the picture runs the Loader, the BH if equipped, and the three point.

At the words where it says "one path or the other" is where it would route through a BH if Equipped (up facing line), if not equipped with a BH then it goes to the three point control (right hand path).

The reason all this matters is that if there is an issue in either Circuit #1 or Circuit #2 it does effect the fluid that is also shared by the HST.

One issue can be foaming of the fluid.


View attachment 75007

I'm truly understanding the relationship. If foaming is happening, will it fix itself over time or does the system need to be purged? I know my power steering on my truck was messed up after the changed the pump, they didn't suck all the air out. I had to get a vacuum pump and use that.

That wont work here I don't think, it's not a closed system under pressure.

I have bought new filters so I just need to make room in the garage and tear it apart. I'm going to get it up again before summer.