Not so new here with a couple of B6000's

[trevoroni]

Success!
Just have to make the spacer for the front.

 

[Russell King]

Saw this for sale and thought you’d be interested

Kubota Sims Cab soft sided with wiper complete for B series on Kubota B2100 now 1550

Kubota Sims Cab soft sided with wiper complete for B series on Kubota B2100 now will remove once paid in cash 1550.00 please PM me = Thanks Tim NH 03260

www.orangetractortalks.com

 

[trevoroni]

That does look pretty cool, but it is already a pain to get in the seat around the loader uprights.
And it's winter use is pretty limited so an open cab is ok.

 

[trevoroni]

Got the plates for the spacer cut on the plasma table today.
Hopefully have it welded up tomorrow or the next day.
Went to start the new tractor today and it appears there's a short in the starting circuit.
The battery was dead last time I tried to start it but I figured it was probably due to the old battery the guy I bought it off put in it to get it home.
I had it on the trickle charger with the + post off and as soon as I touched it to the battery the starter was cranking.
Removing the small wire from the solenoid it stopped.
It's been parked in the rain for the last few weeks while swapping the loader over so I'm guessing water got in one of the switches.
Looking at the wiring diagram though it looks like both the main key switch and the starter/glow plug switch would have to get water in them which is odd. They both don't seem to do anything when turned when the battery is connected.
The tractor fires up no problem with the solenoid wire connected but you can here the starter still fighting the engine until it is removed.

Electrical problems..... My favourite.
Good thing it's about as simple as it gets.

 

[Shadetree605]

Got the plates for the spacer cut on the plasma table today.
Hopefully have it welded up tomorrow or the next day.
Went to start the new tractor today and it appears there's a short in the starting circuit.
The battery was dead last time I tried to start it but I figured it was probably due to the old battery the guy I bought it off put in it to get it home.
I had it on the trickle charger with the + post off and as soon as I touched it to the battery the starter was cranking.
Removing the small wire from the solenoid it stopped.
It's been parked in the rain for the last few weeks while swapping the loader over so I'm guessing water got in one of the switches.
Looking at the wiring diagram though it looks like both the main key switch and the starter/glow plug switch would have to get water in them which is odd. They both don't seem to do anything when turned when the battery is connected.
The tractor fires up no problem with the solenoid wire connected but you can here the starter still fighting the engine until it is removed.

Electrical problems..... My favourite.
Good thing it's about as simple as it gets.

sounds like the starter solenoid can be bad ?, when connecting the pos + side to battery, it should not try to crank unless the key switch is turned ?, could it be the ignition switch is bad ?. glow plugs should start to glow way before the starter is cranking. my gut feeling tells me the ignition switch is not working right to begin with. i had a issue with my ignition switch ( so i thought ? )..replaced it..still got a no crank at the starter on my b2100, come to find out, a lot of these b series tractors had an issue with the starter relay not getting enough voltage from battery when key is turned from all the safety switches over age ?, so i purchased and installed a starter improvement relay switch in my b2100, and this current b1700 project, now both tractors crank right up with no issues at all.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

sounds like the starter solenoid can be bad ?, when connecting the pos + side to battery, it should not try to crank unless the key switch is turned ?, could it be the ignition switch is bad ?. glow plugs should start to glow way before the starter is cranking. my gut feeling tells me the ignition switch is not working right to begin with. i had a issue with my ignition switch ( so i thought ? )..replaced it..still got a no crank at the starter on my b2100, come to find out, a lot of these b series tractors had an issue with the starter relay not getting enough voltage from battery when key is turned from all the safety switches over age ?, so i purchased and installed a starter improvement relay switch in my b2100, and this current b1700 project, now both tractors crank right up with no issues at all.

The electrical on a B6000 is nothing close to what the wiring is on the B2100 or B1700.
There is very little to it.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Sounds like you have a short in the wiring and because of that short it sound like it might have cause stareter damage if it's hanging while power is removed from the solenoid.

 

[Shadetree605]

The electrical on a B6000 is nothing close to what the wiring is on the B2100 or B1700.
There is very little to it.

then there is trouble in the starters solenoid for some reason, he's getting instant power when the battery is reconnected, and this is not correct. ignition switch is somehow telling the starter to crank ?. short as you said.

 

[trevoroni]

I agree that it sounds like a short in the wiring.
It would be unlikely that both the main key and starter switch both got water in them at the same time but I suppose it could happen.

I don't think the solenoid is damaged because the starter works properly as soon as the small spade plug is connected or removed.

Here is the original wiring diagram for the B6000.

But mine has had some modifications, There is a 3 position switch on the dashboard that says Generator High/Off/Low that I haven't figured out what it does.

And there is a plug for a trickle charger wired to the battery.

 

[trevoroni]

Pulled the dash off it.

Looks like a mess.
And the glow plugs aren't working either. Surprised it starts as well as it does.

Swapped in the glow plug indicator from the old one and that's about as far as I got.

I'm tempted to replace the whole wiring harness or swap it with the old one... But that's not correct either.

 

[trevoroni]

Well.... There's your problem.

Kept pulling back the covering over the loom...

It looks like the main power from the starter to the main switch and the wire going from the switch to the glow plug melted together....
Based off of the corrosion it looks like it's been starting for awhile and being parked in the rain outside did it in. Lucky it didn't catch on fire.

That's as far as I got tonight... It looks like most of the small wires are intact, a couple of tears in the insulation which is why the starter was always going when the battery was hooked up.

I ordered some 2ga wire and rings to fit the terminals. I've got enough of the smaller stuff for the rest if they're damaged beyond repair.
Hopefully the switches didn't get wrecked too... I didn't have time to test them.

I also started sketching the wiring diagram and it looks like the "generator" switch and light switch make sense. Instead of being hooked up to the 1 OEM light switch it was split into 2 easily available switches...
Not sure if I'll replace that with OEM yet or not.

One step at a time.

Good thing these "cheap" old tractor's are more of things to tinker with then needed for chores for me.

 

[trevoroni]

Here's the wiring diagram for the new tractors dash.

Other than some messy wires it looks like it all makes sense and replaces the OEM switches. The mysterious "Generator" switch with the 3 position switch High-Off-Low toggle is really just an On and Off.

It also appears that the headlights run on 12V DC now which will be nice for swapping to LED's.
I'm guessing the ones in the old tractor aren't going to last long. I didn't realize that the original bulbs were AC.

 

[Shadetree605]

Here's the wiring diagram for the new tractors dash.

View attachment 131251

Other than some messy wires it looks like it all makes sense and replaces the OEM switches. The mysterious "Generator" switch with the 3 position switch High-Off-Low toggle is really just an On and Off.

View attachment 131252

It also appears that the headlights run on 12V DC now which will be nice for swapping to LED's.
I'm guessing the ones in the old tractor aren't going to last long. I didn't realize that the original bulbs were AC.

i have never , ever...seen any light bulbs for any car, truck, tractor to be AC voltage ?!. in my 60 yrs on this planet, this is new to me. not saying they never made them ?, but i sure as heck have never seen any. 6 volt dc, yes. 12 volt dc, yes. but 12 volt AC ?..nope..never seen them.

 

[trevoroni]

Not saying that the bulbs are any different but they have AC voltage going through them in these tractors normally and this can cause issues with LED bulbs.

If you look at the OEM wiring diagram posted above the lights are powered directly from the generator normally and do not go through the rectifier for DC.

Edit: It looks like I did say the bulbs were AC, I guess I should have said AC powered.

 

[Shadetree605]

Not saying that the bulbs are any different but they have AC voltage going through them in these tractors normally and this can cause issues with LED bulbs.

View attachment 131267

If you look at the OEM wiring diagram posted above the lights are powered directly from the generator normally and do not go through the rectifier for DC.

Edit: It looks like I did say the bulbs were AC, I guess I should have said AC powered.

if the lights are being operated straight from the generator, then what is the reason for the reg/rec ?. most reg/rec convert ac voltage to dc voltage. i do see the lights are coming from the generator, but the generator is also connected to the reg/rec as well. again..never have seen any light bulbs ran off AC voltage in any system like this. last but not least..even if the bulbs were being operated off ac voltage, what is keeping them from being over powered if they are running straight from the generator ?, would it not seem logical to meter the voltage through the reg/rec ?.

 

[trevoroni]

There is just the one leg of the 3 outputs that is run through the rectifier to convert to 12V DC to charge the battery and operate the glow plugs.

I'm not sure why it was done that way. I thought they were running on 12V DC as they usually are until I was trying to figure out the differences between my wiring and the OEM one.

Dave_eng has come to the same conclusion. I

https://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/threads/b6000-battery-charging-problem.159/post-551447

guess I could measure the AC voltage at the lights on my old tractor and compare it to the DC voltage at the lights on the new tractor to confirm.

 

[trevoroni]

Must have been tired last night...
I ordered the replacement wire last night based on looking at the wiring diagram...
AV3 is not 3ga... It's more like 12ga!
Should have used my brain looking at the actual wires.
Luckily I've got lots of 12ga wire and fittings here. The 2ga stuff is going back, or I'll add it to my stock for future projects.
I went through the rest of the small wires in the loom tonight and it looks like the wire to the solenoid got the worst of it and I'll replace it.
The rest of them have a few wear spots in the insulation so I'll electrical tape and/or heat shrink those spots before heat shrinking the whole lot together again.
I'm tempted to seperate the wire going from the starter to the main switch and the wire going to the glow plugs from the rest of the auxiliary wires to keep this from happening again for the future owner in 60 years.

 

[trevoroni]

Got the adapter/extension for the frame finished today.

And just have a few wires left in the harness to fix up...

Getting there slowly.

 

[trevoroni]

Well well, wasn't planning on getting a PTO reverser but this popped up a few hours away and we are conveniently going to a wedding this weekend and passing through the town.

Should be picking it up Thursday morning!

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I hate to tell you but the original wiring for the lights was 12V and it was supplied buy the rectifier.