MX5400 hydraulic arm shaft and control rod damage

[SDT]

I think you’ve summarized it perfectly.

When the damage occurred, I had the back blade adjusted so that it was swung out as far to the right as it can. It was also pivoted both to the left and right and tilted up and down on each side at various times while scraping pretty hard on very undulating terrain. And the kick stand was down. And I drove over a ditch few times, which is probably where the kick stand was damaged.

Overall pretty aggressive operating, but the only obvious (to me) mistake was the kick stand. I would think it would apply upward force, not lateral, but combined with the swing, angle and tilt of the blade and the ditch, I guess it was enough.

Operating your back blade as described applies extraordinary forces to hitch components, especially with the quick hitch.

I can now understand how the pictured damage occurred.

SDT

 

[GeoHorn]

Quick hitch?

That's new information.

The quick hitch moves attached implements rearward a bit extending the lever arms attached to the tractor hitch, multiplying forces proportionally.

Yet another reason why I do not use quick hitches.

SDT

The QH has sufficient additional troubles to have convinced me that the best way to avoid them is to store it in the corner of the barn until someone comes by and asks “What is that for?” …and I can praise it as I offer to load it into their vehicle.

 

[DWilly]

If it were mine, I'd use a small thin grinding wheel (Dremel?) to carefully clean up the damaged ends of the spline teeth until the arm will go back on the rockshaft. The splined connection has only lost a couple percent of its original strength - which when fully re-engaged will still be plenty strong. To reinstate the 3-point feedback function I'd replace part 150 with a new one TA150-37720, adding a thicker flat steel reinforcing bar with longer bolts.
There's a good chance you could fix it for 20 bucks instead of a thousand . Best luck, Dick B.

I too would repair and reuse the damaged components unless Kubota decided to repair the damage under warranty, KTAC or otherwise.

SDT

Thanks. This was my initial thought for a repair also.

And I get the sinking feeling I'm not going to be happy with their decision on the warranty. The problem being that without owning a capable transport, I'll have to pay several hundred for the pick up service to allow the dealer to assess. Need to decide quickly. Pick up is rescheduled for a few hours from now.

 

[DWilly]

There should be a full-depth engagement of the splines in the arm, the nylon bushing and metal sleeve bushing should be further in, an o-ring seal between them. See attached part diagram.

The rockshaft moved right, withdrawing from the arm, bending the bolted 150 end plate. It became barely engaged on the splines - and finally failed while lifting the blade, with only the outer ends of the teeth engaged.

The question is what either pushed the left arm to the left or the right arm to the right ?

View attachment 74981

Can you tell me where you found this diagram?

I bought a work shop manual, but I don't see this diagram. Other comments I've since read say there are two versions of the WSM. Mine is dated 2019 and I understand there is a 2021 version that perhaps I should have purchased instead. I haven't yet been able to find the 2021 version available to buy online.

 

[RCW]

Can you tell me where you found this diagram?

I bought a work shop manual, but I don't see this diagram. Other comments I've since read say there are two versions of the WSM. Mine is dated 2019 and I understand there is a 2021 version that perhaps I should have purchased instead. I haven't yet been able to find the 2021 version available to buy online.

There are several sources.

This is direct to Kubota USA. It's a new format, and I'm not real handy with it yet.

Kubota Tractor Corporation - Illustrated Parts List

- K-PAD - Parts Lists - Illustrated Parts Lists - diagrams

apps.kubotausa.com

Agree to legal. Put in your MX5400 model number.

Messick's has one also.

 

[rbargeron]

Can you tell me where you found this diagram?

I bought a work shop manual, but I don't see this diagram. Other comments I've since read say there are two versions of the WSM. Mine is dated 2019 and I understand there is a 2021 version that perhaps I should have purchased instead. I haven't yet been able to find the 2021 version available to buy online.

The posted image is just a shift-PrtScn from the Kubota parts website (cropped in "Paint") - full screen shot below.

I think if the dealer gets wind of the Quick Hitch, they'll back away from warranty repair.

(see your conversations - envelope icon top right)

 

[mcmxi]

Operating your back blade as described applies extraordinary forces to hitch components, especially with the quick hitch.

I can now understand how the pictured damage occurred.

SDT

Your statement in bold is valid, but getting on your soap box about quick hitches is a stretch. The quick hitch moves the implement 4" rearwards and the suggestion that the quick hitch was in any way to blame for what happened, or made this more likely to happen is pure speculation. I, and tens of thousands of others been using quick hitches on tractors for years now without issue. I pull box blades, swing out rear blades, land levelers, and a rotary cutter and have never damaged anything at the rear of the tractor.

I only have six years of this sort of thing, but a "friend" managed to break all four scarifiers on a box blade behind the BX25D attached to a quick hitch but didn't do any damage to the 3-point system. Obviously, the more unbalanced the forces on a rear implement the greater the loading on various components. A heavy tractor with a rear blade swung out far to one side, some momentum and a hard catch on one corner would greatly increase the chance of damage. But do the math, draw a FBD and convince anyone that 4" makes any significant difference in this or any other scenario.

I just sold the only implement I have that has a swing out feature and that's a Land Pride RB3796. It's the least useful implement I have so I'm happy to see it go.

 

[SDT]

Your statement in bold is valid, but getting on your soap box about quick hitches is a stretch. The quick hitch moves the implement 4" rearwards and the suggestion that the quick hitch was in any way to blame for what happened, or made this more likely to happen is pure speculation. I, and tens of thousands of others been using quick hitches on tractors for years now without issue. I pull box blades, swing out rear blades, land levelers, and a rotary cutter and have never damaged anything at the rear of the tractor.

I only have six years of this sort of thing, but a "friend" managed to break all four scarifiers on a box blade behind the BX25D attached to a quick hitch but didn't do any damage to the 3-point system. Obviously, the more unbalanced the forces on a rear implement the greater the loading on various components. A heavy tractor with a rear blade swung out far to one side, some momentum and a hard catch on one corner would greatly increase the chance of damage. But do the math, draw a FBD and convince anyone that 4" makes any significant difference in this or any other scenario.

I just sold the only implement I have that has a swing out feature and that's a Land Pride RB3796. It's the least useful implement I have so I'm happy to see it go.

I will agree to disagree regarding quick hitches and see nothing to be gained by continuing such debate.

SDT

 

[DWilly]

I think if the dealer gets wind of the Quick Hitch, they'll back away from warranty repair.

That would be aggravating, since they sold it to me at initial purchase.

 

[PoTreeBoy]

Unless you have KTAC insurance I'd cancel the dealer trip and deal with it myself. The dealer will, rightfully, insist on new parts. As someone else mentioned, you can clean up that spline with a small grinder and put it back together with a new retainer.

I suspect the damage was caused by a stabilizer adjustment or failure. Backing with a blade puts side force on it. The stabilizers are meant to deal with the side force. Others with the turnbuckle stabilizers have reported problems, but I think your MX has telescoping ones.

 

[DWilly]

It’s hard for me to say whether the stabilizer bars were properly adjusted. Not enough experience.

They were attached and didn’t show obvious malfunction (to my untrained eye) before or after the damage. I had a quick hitch on that the dealer originally attached. I hadn’t adjusted the stabilizers bars since delivery, and all 3 points of connection were solidly engaged when I finally removed the QH this morning.

A knowledgeable friend looked at the 3pt and said the stabilizer bars are adjusted correctly. And no bending or other signs of excessive force apparent on them. He's had to straighten or weld stabilizer bars plenty of times and can't understand why the lift arm would get forced laterally off the rockshaft rather than bending a stabilizer.

 

[DWilly]

Others with the turnbuckle stabilizers have reported problems, but I think your MX has telescoping ones.

Correct.

 

[rbargeron]

Agreed about the quick hitch being new with the tractor.

 

[PoTreeBoy]

Well, if you're sure an external force didn't cause the problem, maybe it was internal. May be worth taking the top cover off and make sure everything in there is right.

 

[mcmxi]

I think if the dealer gets wind of the Quick Hitch, they'll back away from warranty repair.

Utter rubbish!

That would be aggravating, since they sold it to me at initial purchase.

As you stated, the dealer installed a factory approved accessory that can be financed along with the tractor at the time of purchase. It's an accessory that is made by Land Pride, a company owned by Kubota. It's mind boggling that people here will go on and on about the supposed downsides of quick hitches. If there was any evidence that they increased the likelihood of damage to the tractor, Kubota and KTAC would have a clause about them in the insurance policy. Also, they wouldn't sell them as an approved accessory, wouldn't allow you to finance them, and wouldn't let Land Pride make them and sell them through Kubota dealerships.

My advice is have your dealer look at the tractor, see if they can figure out what happened and see if they'll cover any repair costs. Worst case is that you have to pay for it, or as others have said, you can get the tractor back and repair it yourself.

 

[DWilly]

My advice is have your dealer look at the tractor, see if they can figure out what happened and see if they'll cover any repair costs. Worst case is that you have to pay for it, or as others have said, you can get the tractor back and repair it yourself.

This is exactly the route I'm going. Dealer picked it up today, so we'll see what they say tomorrow.

 

[SDT]

Utter rubbish!



As you stated, the dealer installed a factory approved accessory that can be financed along with the tractor at the time of purchase. It's an accessory that is made by Land Pride, a company owned by Kubota. It's mind boggling that people here will go on and on about the supposed downsides of quick hitches. If there was any evidence that they increased the likelihood of damage to the tractor, Kubota and KTAC would have a clause about them in the insurance policy. Also, they wouldn't sell them as an approved accessory, wouldn't allow you to finance them, and wouldn't let Land Pride make them and sell them through Kubota dealerships.

My advice is have your dealer look at the tractor, see if they can figure out what happened and see if they'll cover any repair costs. Worst case is that you have to pay for it, or as others have said, you can get the tractor back and repair it yourself.

"Utter rubbish!"

Rubbish, indeed.

Me thinks you put far too much faith in the knowledge of dealers, especially commissioned salespersons.

There is no reason to believe that such know much about design, operation, etc., etc., etc.,..... Certainly not so much as one with nearly 60 years of operational experience, even one with, IIRC, 6 years of such experience.

Still, one should believe what one wishes to believe.

With time and experience, it is likely (no guarantees) that you will learn.

SDT

 

[DWilly]

Well, if you're sure an external force didn't cause the problem, maybe it was internal. May be worth taking the top cover off and make sure everything in there is right.

Good idea. I'll make a note to ask the dealer whether they looked inside in assessing the situation. Thanks!

 

[mcmxi]

"Utter rubbish!"

Rubbish, indeed.

Me thinks you put far too much faith in the knowledge of dealers, especially commissioned salespersons.

There is no reason to believe that such know much about design, operation, etc., etc., etc.,..... Certainly not so much as one with nearly 60 years of operational experience, even one with, IIRC, 6 years of such experience.

Still, one should believe what one wishes to believe.

With time and experience, it is likely (no guarantees) that you will learn.

SDT

Rubbish that the dealership is going to deny warranty work based on the OP having a quick hitch that they sold and installed. Wake up! It's a Kubota approved accessory. All your fear-mongering serves no one but your own ego. You haven't learnt anything in years, your too busy talking all the time. You have to open your ears to learn, not your mouth.

As for the idea that years of experience means anything, not always, and not often. The Catholic church told everyone that the earth was the center of the universe for hundreds of years. People have been getting it wrong for a Milenia. Unless you have evidence that quick hitches and implements used correctly damage 3-points your just speculating.

 

[SDT]

Rubbish that the dealership is going to deny warranty work based on the OP having a quick hitch that they sold and installed. Wake up! It's a Kubota approved accessory. All your fear-mongering serves no one but your own ego. You haven't learnt anything in years, your too busy talking all the time. You have to open your ears to learn, not your mouth.

As for the idea that years of experience means anything, not always, and not often. The Catholic church told everyone that the earth was the center of the universe for hundreds of years. People have been getting it wrong for a Milenia. Unless you have evidence that quick hitches and implements used correctly damage 3-points your just speculating.

" Rubbish that the dealership is going to deny warranty work based on the OP having a quick hitch that they sold and installed. "

Reread my post. When did I say that?

Ignorance is curable and is not a character flaw. Obstinance, however, is.

SDT