Let'm die!

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Henro

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That is correct.

However, it seems to me that when you have a long-running dataset that shows a sudden spike, like VAERS does, it warrants investigation. But I haven't heard anything about it being investigated.
Probably difficult to verify VAERS reports. And making judgments based on unverified information is probably not wise.

My impression is that there are a number of continuing studies going on referencing verifiable data. If so, their conclusions will likely reflect the current situation more accurately than conclusions based on random reports.

No doubt it would be wise to investigate further whatever trends are indicated by VAERS reports. But it seems to be meaningful this would require a verifiable data set. Might be difficult to gather. I don’t know. Only so many people available to do the work.

Personally, I try to listen to as many opinions and reports as possible, whatever the subject. I try to see what the consensus is among people that are likely to have expertise in the subject area. Then I draw my own conclusions. I do not put much faith in a lone person or two that tell a story different than mainstream. BUT I do realize there is always a chance they could be right. I play the odds I guess.

Would I place much value in my doctors opinion on how to properly weld something? Probably not. Would I seriously expect rock solid medical advice from an expert weldor friend of mine? Would listen to his advice but probably defer to medical professionals. OR I would research further.

So in the meantime, I will wait for the booster shot and watch my face for renewed irritation. First time, maybe coincidence. A second time, naw, I don’t think so. But even then, it is just an unverifiable observation...

Sometimes trying to be open minded sucks!
 
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NHSleddog

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This is what the SCIENCE data said about masks BEFORE the "political science" took over.

And Henro, this IS a US gov agency,

 

Henro

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Again, please don’t take this as a personal attack, I truly don’t mean it as such. It really has been a good thread that has lasted longer then I thought.

You started this thread with a one sided title and a one sided post. You say you are open minded, but are you? Why did you take an experimental “vaccine” that has no data to refer to? All your posts have seemingly been one sided towards it. What evidence have you shown that this has been safe? History has never shown it.

Again Im trying to be respectful, and I truly have an open mind. I don’t care what one chooses to do as long as Im respected the same way. Why are we pushing it to either extreme? Given the light of things is this a decision that should be rushed?
No offense taken.

I think open mindedness ends once a decision is made. So obviously once I made my decision my mind closed quite a bit, as far as what I think is best with respect to the vaccination ( and on anything really). So you are correct, I am biased and believe the benefit of the vaccination far exceeds the risk, especially for the elderly.

That bias led to the unfortunate choice of thread titles, which I later mentioned as being unfortunate, and what could certainly have been improved.

But deciding one thing does not prevent one from being a generally open minded person with respect to anything else. For example, I may believe the virus vaccine is beneficial, but I also believe we all have the right to make our own decisions. AND that we live with them afterwards.

If one thinks there is no data to support the use of the virus vaccination, perhaps it is time to review the "facts" again. Facts in quotation marks, as many believe everything reported in support of the vaccination is pretty much fiction.

The evidence is pretty well documented, and there are plenty of statistics showing that the vaccinated are better protected from serious affects if exposed to this virus, as compared to the unvaccinated. It is not my place or intention to convince anyone of anything. Those interested should research this themselves and come to their own conclusions.

Frankly, aside from the fact that my two youngest grandkids, and some other people in the general population (for medical reasons), cannot get the vaccination, I do not really care if anyone gets it or not. Except I hope my close friends do, but that is their decision, not mine.

I TOTALLY AGREE, do not look down on anyone for their decision. It is their decision, not ours. But discussion is healthy. "I see it this way because...you see it differently" kind of discussion. Learning the thought process of others can help us see errors in our personal logic.

The initial post, as I mentioned in this thread already, was simply meant to see if people felt bad in any way for those who suffer from either taking, OR not taking, the offered vaccine.
 
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Henro

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This is what the SCIENCE data said about masks BEFORE the "political science" took over.

And Henro, this IS a US gov agency,

And the point is?

The article was retracted.

Retracted for a number of reasons they list...if you follow a link they provide. Mainly for misrepresenting data and the author misrepresenting his current professional affiliations. My synopsis. Read the actual reasons at that site...
 
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Henro

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I confess at this point I only watched the first third of the video. And it seems the guy was making some valid points and had the background to make them. His message was obviously anti mask (and likely anti vaccine, but not sure, I will go back and watch the rest later)

I think he ignored an important point.

Imagine it is your birthday. Light a candle on the cake and blow it out. Probably can do that from a foot away. Or more.

Now put a cheap mask on, and try again. Hard to blow the candle out now, right?

Point being, if a person is exhaling virus particles, if a mask is there, it will keep the particles closer to the source. They are carried by air flow. Restricting virus travel benefits others to some degree, at least more than not obstructing air flow.

This is the way I see it...just using common sense...have not seen a study proving this to be true...but I would bet it is.
 

D2Cat

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From the information I've seen on mask it seems the mask does not contain or restrain the particles the size of the virus.

Wouldn't that by like putting a tennis court net across a stream and try to catch minnows?
 

Henro

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From the information I've seen on mask it seems the mask does not contain or restrain the particles the size of the virus.

Wouldn't that by like putting a tennis court net across a stream and try to catch minnows?
I do not doubt that at all. But the particles can only move if the air carries them. That is the point that keeps catching my attention.

Thinking that a cheap mask will prevent virus particles from passing through it, when the openings are larger than the particles, is nonsense the way I see it. But if the air stream they ride on is inhibited, they will be inhibited too, will they not? I mean, they do not have their own method of changing location...

Edit: In other words, I personally see no value for myself if I wear a mask. Air I breathe through it will carry any virus particles that are there. But air I breathe out will likely not carry particles as far if I have a mask on, compared to if I am bare faced.

So by wearing a mask I protect others, and they protect me to some degree if they wear a mask...
 

random

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How much of the airstream is simply diverted - to the sides and up or down?
 

twomany

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I do not doubt that at all. But the particles can only move if the air carries them. That is the point that keeps catching my attention.

Thinking that a cheap mask will prevent virus particles from passing through it, when the openings are larger than the particles, is nonsense the way I see it. But if the air stream they ride on is inhibited, they will be inhibited too, will they not? I mean, they do not have their own method of changing location...

Edit: In other words, I personally see no value for myself if I wear a mask. Air I breathe through it will carry any virus particles that are there. But air I breathe out will likely not carry particles as far if I have a mask on, compared to if I am bare faced.

So by wearing a mask I protect others, and they protect me to some degree if they wear a mask...
So instead of infecting the person in front of you, your shedded virus infects the person behind you.

That's a win. I guess for some.
 

Henro

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How much of the airstream is simply diverted - to the sides and up or down?
That is a good point. Don't know. Point is well taken. I may be living in an illusion...like I said, have not seen a study addressing this question...just applying what I think is common sense...so the question becomes, can a mask actually increase the air flow velocity?

Never heard that possibility mentioned. Kind of doubt it, but...
 

Henro

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So instead of infecting the person in front of you, your shedded virus infects the person behind you.

That's a win. I guess for some.
I don't think it is a linear relationship. Probably with a mask the bubble of virus you exhale would stay closer to you, if you are infected. Without the mask it would probably extend further in the direction your mouth/nose were pointed. And of course less to the rear.

All speculation on my part. Never read anything about the difference between exhaling and inhaling with a mask on. It is always wear a mask or don't, with no explanation of who is really benefiting. (if anyone). Still my gut tells me mask wearing is desirable. At least until it can be shown that mask wearing is detrimental.
 

twomany

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To error on the side of caution is normal.

To error on the side of personal freedom seems to go against some sensibilities.

Not mine though.
 
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sheepfarmer

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From the information I've seen on mask it seems the mask does not contain or restrain the particles the size of the virus.

Wouldn't that by like putting a tennis court net across a stream and try to catch minnows?
A cloth mask would behave as you describe if the viral particles, aka virions, were being exhaled individually, but they are not. What is being exhaled are larger droplets and an aerosol (smaller droplets) from the surfaces of the cells lining the nose and throat. Each droplet would contain hundreds thousands of viral particles. Do you remember being told to cough into your handkerchief or elbow so you don't spread your cold around? The larger droplets will fall to the ground in a few feet. The aerosols can float around on air currents for some time. Anything that can be trapped on the surface of the mask is helpful. Data as to effectiveness of masking was published in English journal before the covid stuff. I posted links in a previous thread that is no longer up. Obviously better masks are better, and fit is important.
 

DaveFromMi

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This local doctor, who is also a virologist, explains the current situation thoroughly.
People taking the vaccine are getting sicker with COVID than the unvaccinated.
The vaccinated people are spreading the virus.
The doctor notes that a respiratory virus outbreak doesn't usually occur in the summer and believes the vaccine has created this anomaly.
We have never eliminated a respiratory virus through vaccine, ever.
The key is cheap and plentiful treatments that have been available for some time; ie., not good news for Big Pharma and the politicians they donate to.

Please watch before it is taken down again.
 
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NHSleddog

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Science used to tell us this, but we are using new science as we go currently.


It is called "Political Science" - The hilarious thing is a lot of these same people have those "We believe in science" signs on their lawns - ROFLMAO.
 
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