L4150 Repair Restore

[CiscoRanger]

Cisco, you have inadvertently fallen into "the creative wiring zone"!
But it appears you've gotten most of it figured out in spite of "the zone".

Maybe I've missed it, but wanted to mention the front axle. Definitely give it a check for oil/condition of oil there.
I drained about a cup from each side during my restoration and it was thick and black. Lucky I was that this lack of care didn't ruin the guts of the axle. As I recall, every seal on the thing was useless.

As for the dash, whatever you do, don't try solder on the circuit board. Those copper tabs on the light sockets don't look too bad from here - are they corroded and broken off? Is the plastic toast?

I was wondering if you could add a drop of solder with a needle tip iron to the socket's circuit board contacts? Then you could file the drop down to adjust tightness. Also, add a bit of dielectric grease.

As for the multi-pin socket - what is the condition of the contacts? can you bend them back to be tighter around the pins? Is there some kind of bracket that holds the socket to the board? It appears that there is the ole' typical "bend a piece of metal around the wire" thing. Well better than nothing - add some heat shrink to it

Curious to know what you find on the tank gauge. Hopefully the sensor is fine and just gunked up. Sometimes the float sinks! I'm always surprised during this discovery phase!


View attachment 88949


View attachment 88950

Hey @Nicksacco and @MountainMeadows Nick, I didn’t get around to responding to your message from yesterday mostly because I've been trying to figure out where I want to go with this.

Those are some good suggestions on gauge repair, guys, thank you.

To be honest, I'm not totally sure anything in the cluster is broken except the pointers. Coolant gauge seems to work. Tach, and hour meter work. The fuel gauge itself may work, I just wont know til I either get a potentiometer or a fuel sending unit that functions. I forgot to mention last night that the sending unit sweep arm is messed up, has a hole in it, and will need to be replaced. I have a candidate.

The dash connections are a bugger...but it turns out the plug connections are just snap in, and will release the wires to clean up and tighten up that connection.

They dont even look corroded really. If I can get these tightened up slightly, then we should be good on the plug connections. I'll mic the pin diameter and see what size the connectors need to be.

@MountainMeadows I really like those connection cleaning sets.

As for the lights, I found out what the twist in connectors are, and will buy a new set of 10, they are about 70 cents a piece. That will be way better than trying to clean the existing ones. paired with some LED dash lights (most of the current bulbs are burnt out), we might be in good shape.

I took the dash apart today, to clean it. I was surprised I could disassemble the entire thing. I guess this was made before they started gluing everything together.

The lens was cut badly at fabrication I guess, there's a slight gap in the bottom corner and thats where the water intrusion you see came from. Surprisingly the board looks fine.


You are right about the needles. Since I can get all this apart, replacing the needles would be easy. I gently pulled on one to see if it would come off. It didnt. I barely pulled on it because I didnt want to break it, and I am good at breaking delicate things. Did you take your gauge needles off? Any trick to it?

Thanks!

 

[Russell King]

Could you just glue new needles onto the existing stubs for the gauges?

I imagine that some sheet metal shop could cut needles on a laser or water jet table. Maybe a trophy/nameplate/hobby shop sells the needles or just buy cheap analog clocks as has been suggested.

 

[CiscoRanger]

Could you just glue new needles onto the existing stubs for the gauges?

I imagine that some sheet metal shop could cut needles on a laser or water jet table. Maybe a trophy/nameplate/hobby shop sells the needles or just buy cheap analog clocks as has been suggested.

Hey Russell. I should be able to do that. I saw a couple of needles and pivot caps online already made up so I was curious about how difficult they usually are to remove.

 

[PoTreeBoy]

Hey Russell. I should be able to do that. I saw a couple of needles and pivot caps online already made up so I was curious about how difficult they usually are to remove.

View attachment 89017

I've seen clock hand pullers, they look like miniature gear pullers. Is there a clocksmith nearby? Maybe you could rig something.

You can test the fuel gauge by grounding the wire to the sensor, it should go to full. Should read empty when that wire is open. Since you have it out, you may be able to test it by putting a 9 volt battery across it. Or just ohm it - I don't know what the resistance should be, maybe less than 100 ohms?, if it's not open it's probably ok.

 

[Nicksacco]

I did not have to remove the pointers on my tractor gauges since they were intact. However, when I rebuilt the dash on my Trailblazer, I used a fork for leverage with some thick paper and cardboard to prevent scratching the dials.

If those pointers don't just come off easily, I'd consider gluing on a new pointer to the existing one. A drop of super glue will do the trick. If you do this, tape the area with something like painter's tape to prevent foul language.

Don't know if you want to bother with a new glass, but you can certainly have a new one made - or make one yourself from a sheet of acrylic from Home Depot or other. Of course if the missing area isn't large, and you don't want to mess with it, a bit of silicone placed carefully will work as well.

 

[CiscoRanger]

I've seen clock hand pullers, they look like miniature gear pullers. Is there a clocksmith nearby? Maybe you could rig something.

You can test the fuel gauge by grounding the wire to the sensor, it should go to full. Should read empty when that wire is open. Since you have it out, you may be able to test it by putting a 9 volt battery across it. Or just ohm it - I don't know what the resistance should be, maybe less than 100 ohms?, if it's not open it's probably ok.

Youre right Po, good call. 0 ohm full is just grounding the lead from the tank. Same with hot on the coolant temp. So I tried this and everything was sketchy. I’d get power and then I wouldn’t. I could ohm across the contacts, then I couldn’t. I’m telling you this board (probably from the water) is iffy.

Next step I cleaned the contact screws for the gauges and made up some test connectors bypassing the pins that the plug connects to (except the illumination pin) :

and finally some solid outcome on the gauges (both are operating properly) including the backlight illumination:

So this works with the screw-down test connectors but still not with the pins. I’m going to pick up some cleaning tools like the ones @MountainMeadows suggested and try a solid cleaning of every pad and contact on the board and plug. If that works, fine. I’ll leave it stock. If it’s sketchy at all I’m gonna bypass the PCB’s and hard wire it all together.

Also not gonna risk pulling the needle caps. I’ll do as suggested and superglue a new one on top, even if it’s just a coffee stir stick.

 

[CiscoRanger]

I did not have to remove the pointers on my tractor gauges since they were intact. However, when I rebuilt the dash on my Trailblazer, I used a fork for leverage with some thick paper and cardboard to prevent scratching the dials.

If those pointers don't just come off easily, I'd consider gluing on a new pointer to the existing one. A drop of super glue will do the trick. If you do this, tape the area with something like painter's tape to prevent foul language.

Don't know if you want to bother with a new glass, but you can certainly have a new one made - or make one yourself from a sheet of acrylic from Home Depot or other. Of course if the missing area isn't large, and you don't want to mess with it, a bit of silicone placed carefully will work as well.

Great suggestion Nick. That’s probably what I will do. Get some clear silicone.

you also mentioned the axles. Agreed. I want to hit all the grease, filter, and fluid points as the final step. Thanks!

 

[PoTreeBoy]

Youre right Po, good call. 0 ohm full is just grounding the lead from the tank. Same with hot on the coolant temp. So I tried this and everything was sketchy. I’d get power and then I wouldn’t. I could ohm across the contacts, then I couldn’t. I’m telling you this board (probably from the water) is iffy.

Next step I cleaned the contact screws for the gauges and made up some test connectors bypassing the pins that the plug connects to (except the illumination pin) :

View attachment 89057

and finally some solid outcome on the gauges (both are operating properly) including the backlight illumination:

View attachment 89060

So this works with the screw-down test connectors but still not with the pins. I’m going to pick up some cleaning tools like the ones @MountainMeadows suggested and try a solid cleaning of every pad and contact on the board and plug. If that works, fine. I’ll leave it stock. If it’s sketchy at all I’m gonna bypass the PCB’s and hard wire it all together.

Also not gonna risk pulling the needle caps. I’ll do as suggested and superglue a new one on top, even if it’s just a coffee stir stick.

I usually use dielectric grease to prevent oxidation on connectors. Some folks say no, because it's an insulator (although knife switches often have what looks like regular grease to me).

You could try Ox Gard. It's what's used on aluminum wiring to prevent bad connections from developing. It's ok to use on copper, but you'd have to be careful where you put it because it's conductive.

 

[CiscoRanger]

Brief Update: After much struggle and chasing my tail with the printed circuit boards I think I discovered why they are so flaky. The pcb is a piece of black plastic with a single layer copper print on top.

The pins are placed in holes from the top and then crimped at the bottom in the plastic:

the crimps ideally hold the pins against the copper printing. However they are no longer tight enough to provide a consistent connection to the copper printed circuit. The ohm reading from the pin to the base of where the pins sit is all over the place. This explains a lot of the recurring issues I continue to experience. I’m sure they weren’t designed to be plugged and unplugged on the regular, but IMHO it’s not a solid design for a piece of machinery that sees vibration and jarring movement.

im going to take a few days and figure out where to go from here. If they make some sort of pin with a thread and nut on the bottom I would consider using that, or perhaps small screws and nuts with ring terminals. Otherwise it’s back to hard wiring the lights and gauges, which should last the remainder of the life of the tractor. I’m not going to try and re-crimp them, because I am not confident that will hold up. Neighbor said he doesn’t remember the gauges and lights ever working. Lol.

We will get there. Have a good evening everyone!

 

[DrankTheOrangeKoolaid]

Can you clean it up well enough to soldier the pins?

 

[CiscoRanger]

Can you clean it up well enough to soldier the pins?

Maybe? I’m not any good at soldering anything but copper pipe, to be honest. Never got the hang of it. I’m not sure how that plastic backer would react either? My lack of skill, I think I’d probably mess it up, unfortunately. They have stand off pins that might work with a bit of thread locker. Screw them in tight and ring terminal on top to a Deutsch connector?

 

[Nicksacco]

A while back I cautioned you against trying to solder on the pcb. The reason is that type of pcb with pinched connections is typical cheapo (for manufacturer) way to produce something for the least cost. The result is exactly what your symptoms are with sketchy connections.

Too much heat and you melt the plastic sheet that the copper is glued to and/or separate the copper from the plastic - UGH.

If you don't feel confident and you don't have a variable temp soldering tool and very thin solder, then you risk damaging the pcb. That pcb doesn't appear to be made to take heat as there are no soldered connections on it - but the other one does. Do the materials in the two substrates look different? I'm just guessing 'cause I can't be sure. BTW, nice job on the jumpers!

As @PoTreeBoy says, dielectric grease is good to use on connections - I use it all the time in moderation and it protects connectors. But as a grease it also attracts dirt, so you have to be aware of where you're putting it.

I mentioned the dash on my Trailblazer; yes I did solder the pcb because when I removed one of the gauge motors, I inadvertently melted the plastic substrate - groan! But lowering the temp allowed me to continue replacing gauge motors and lights. You have to go very slowly and carefully. I had to use jumpers on the pcb to repair the damaged area.

Your thoughts of hard wiring things might just be the way to go. These kind of mechanical connections shown below are always troublesome thanks to Father Time.

If you decide to go for it, something like this is what I'm talking about and use very thin solder.

Direct Tools Outlet Site

www.directtoolsoutlet.com

https://a.co/d/31CDqfX

 

[CiscoRanger]

A while back I cautioned you against trying to solder on the pcb. The reason is that type of pcb with pinched connections is typical cheapo (for manufacturer) way to produce something for the least cost. The result is exactly what your symptoms are with sketchy connections.

Too much heat and you melt the plastic sheet that the copper is glued to and/or separate the copper from the plastic - UGH.

If you don't feel confident and you don't have a variable temp soldering tool and very thin solder, then you risk damaging the pcb. That pcb doesn't appear to be made to take heat as there are no soldered connections on it - but the other one does. Do the materials in the two substrates look different? I'm just guessing 'cause I can't be sure. BTW, nice job on the jumpers!

As @PoTreeBoy says, dielectric grease is good to use on connections - I use it all the time in moderation and it protects connectors. But as a grease it also attracts dirt, so you have to be aware of where you're putting it.

I mentioned the dash on my Trailblazer; yes I did solder the pcb because when I removed one of the gauge motors, I inadvertently melted the plastic substrate - groan! But lowering the temp allowed me to continue replacing gauge motors and lights. You have to go very slowly and carefully. I had to use jumpers on the pcb to repair the damaged area.

Your thoughts of hard wiring things might just be the way to go. These kind of mechanical connections shown below are always troublesome thanks to Father Time.

If you decide to go for it, something like this is what I'm talking about and use very thin solder.

Direct Tools Outlet Site

www.directtoolsoutlet.com

https://a.co/d/31CDqfX

View attachment 89101

Thanks Nick. Both the boards look to be made of the same material. The smaller board has some small resistors soldered on top that would take a lot less heat to solder than these pins would. I really am leaning more and more toward a screw down solution and a different connector. I think it would be a ’once-and-done’ thing and I can move on past these issues. I don’t see these pins holding up. Even if soldered to the printing, because they have no support from the backing.

 

[Nicksacco]

Thanks Nick. Both the boards look to be made of the same material. The smaller board has some small resistors soldered on top that would take a lot less heat to solder than these pins would. I really am leaning more and more toward a screw down solution and a different connector. I think it would be a ’once-and-done’ thing and I can move on past these issues. I don’t see these pins holding up. Even if soldered to the printing, because they have no support from the backing.

Hmmm, yes I get it. And the size of the pins are likely why Kubota (or whomever made the PCB) compressed the pin connection rather than soldered it.

Look at this from my L35; The PCB is a thin sheet of plastic with the connections (copper) and circuit layered on it! Kind like drawing a circuit on a piece of thick paper. Yikes, the designer must've gotten a huge raise saving the company tons of money in PCB mfg.

However take note of the screws connecting the gauges. So I think your idea of compression is a good one. Can you remove the pins without damaging the PCB? and instead use a screw and nut holding down loop connectors similar to the way you built the jumpers for your testing?

 

[MountainMeadows]

I would try supporting the pins and re-staking them from the back side.

 

[CiscoRanger]

I would try supporting the pins and re-staking them from the back side.

Good morning MM. How would you approach doing that?

 

[CiscoRanger]

Hmmm, yes I get it. And the size of the pins are likely why Kubota (or whomever made the PCB) compressed the pin connection rather than soldered it.

Look at this from my L35; The PCB is a thin sheet of plastic with the connections (copper) and circuit layered on it! Kind like drawing a circuit on a piece of thick paper. Yikes, the designer must've gotten a huge raise saving the company tons of money in PCB mfg.

However take note of the screws connecting the gauges. So I think your idea of compression is a good one. Can you remove the pins without damaging the PCB? and instead use a screw and nut holding down loop connectors similar to the way you built the jumpers for your testing?

View attachment 89139

View attachment 89140

Good morning Nick. I saw a similar style in the old C and K series GMs. For those you can still buy the replacement sheets.

I think I could remove the pins pretty easily by carefully drilling out the back side of those soft copper crimps or even sanding the crimp off. Should pull right out after. My thought is since the contact pad is on top, it shouldn’t matter even if the hole is a little bigger.

 

[MountainMeadows]

Good morning MM. How would you approach doing that?

Since one of my hobbies is watch making I have a staking set that has hollow punches. I would use a hollow punch to go over the pin side small enough to support the lower flange on the pin. then flip the printed circuit over placing the hollow punch on your work bench for support. Then take a staking punch to lightly re-stake the back side.

Without a watchmakers staking set you could improvise some small steel tubing to support the pin and a regular punch to stake the back side. It not going to take much to tighten the pin fit to the circuit board.
Go easy.

 

[Nicksacco]

Hmmm, re-staking might be a possibility if you have something like @MountainMeadows suggests.
If the pins are loose you might be able to spray some contact cleaner around them (and perhaps turn them if they turn and are loose enough), to clean away any corrosion.

Might be worth a shot. You can always remove the pins if it doesn't work.
I'd stay away from large sledgehammers though

I watch some watchmakers on youtube and that's pretty fascinating stuff.
This one was amazing. Very interesting the tools used.

 

[CiscoRanger]

Howdy boys, been a little while. Mrs Ranger and I took an anniversary trip to Cancun last week. Our trip had been postponed from march due to Covid, so we finally got to go, and we got Covid, Been laid up for almost a week, but feeling better by the day. Got up and around and a little bit done on the tractor. Thought I’d update.

So one of the easy checker (warning) lights on the dash was the battery. There was a 2v sensor that would plug into one of the cells on an older style battery. That sensor and battery is gone now, so I decided to upgrade that slot to a volt meter. I always find it helpful to have one. This should work just fine and keeps a factory dash look.

(I know @Nicksacco is gonna tell me I’m creative wiring again )

I’ve also been trying to figure out what to do with the pc board pins. I didn’t want to get rid of the plugs, but I want solid connections. I finally decided to use m2.5 pan head screws mounted upside down to act as pins.

They are a few thousandths (inch) thicker than the pins but seem to work well and make good contact. I added the new led lights and cups and gave it a test run…it holds and works well!

I’m waiting on some dash pointers to come in tomorrow, and with that sorted I should be able to wrap up the dash this weekend hopefully.

Last thing for today was the stop solenoid relay timer. @PoTreeBoy it was a direct fit, and works like a champ! Thank you sir!

Thats it for today. Y’all have a great night!