L295DT loader restore, advice needed, pictures

[joesmith123]

salvaging the old lines and putting in jic

Bending the lines to match the factory positions

The hoses that go on them i guess will be female jic 8, 37 degree, swivel

22 dollar harbor freight flaring tool is not the best, but works

Drill with wire brush good for smoothing out old lines to allow the sleeve to move so you can flare

 

[TheOldHokie]

22 dollar harbor freight flaring tool is not the best, but works

Your HF flaring tool is the wrong seat angle. It's for 45 degree SAE fittings.

Dan

 

[joesmith123]

Your HF flaring tool is the wrong seat angle. It's for 45 degree SAE fittings.

Dan

oh wow, hopefully it doesnt cause leak later

i could it see it not causing a leak because: the location of the seal is at the sleeve/nut tightening area

i could be wrong

edit: also that HF flaring tool broke halfway through, I had to drill out the sheared pin, and I put in cotter pins (not the best)

I definitely see why one needs a good setup/equipment to get more done

 

[joesmith123]

observations so far:

you can bend the steel tubing without special tools, do it over longer distances to avoid kinks

tried to to sharp 90 degree, started to kink, I stopped before it got too bad

but most bends and shaping can be done, i just used the vice screwed into a pallet, put the area of the steel tube right next to the clasping metal of the vice, then pulled on the steel tube to emulate factory lines

Then put up to machine and made sure lines are gonna be accessible/proper fitting

its easy to rig it up if you are not worried about making it perfect, even without shop equipment

Next step, not ordering anything, just thinking: get a complete list of all the hoses that will connect the whole system

There's 8 hoses that need to go from jic 8 male -> whatever fittings are on the joystick/cylinders

Some cylinders are threaded factory kubota (whatever that is), other cylinders I will weld on the male jic 8

That means some hoses are gonna be:
jic 8 female swivel going to factory kubota 1/2 inch (cylinders)
jic 8 female ---- jic 8 female (cylinders where I weld on the male jic union)
jic 8 female ---- thread on joystick (maybe put in union that goes from thread on joystick to jic 8 male so I can put swivel female jic)

4 hoses going from lines i made to joystick
8 hoses going from lines to cylinders
total: 12 hoses, different lengths, different ends, but all have 1/2 jic 8 female swivel

 

[Jim L.]

oh wow, hopefully it doesnt cause leak later

i could it see it not causing a leak because: the location of the seal is at the sleeve/nut tightening area

i could be wrong

Flaring angle is critical. Dan was being nice about it.

 

[fried1765]

Not soldier, but silver brazing rods. Brazing is at a higher temperature. The percentage of silver will depend on your materials - I can't/won't answer that because I am not looking at your stuff. Price the rods before deciding which direction to take, silver is not cheap.

The torch will be for heating the materials. When they are hot enough, the braze rod is placed against the materials and the hot materials melt the rod. Key point here is that the rod is not melted by the flame.

Eye protection both physical and for UV.

Buy moreYou also need the matching male JIC fittings.

Dan

I would assume silicon bronze but I really dont know.

I do metalwork, have a well equipped machine shop with welding equipment and can arc or oxy-acetylene weld with moderate success, and I have great confidence in my ability to learn new processes. I don't know the details of this process and even with my background and equipment I would not attempt this repair just to save a couple hundred bucks. The time required and potential for failure is too great.

I have offered all the advice I can with the tube and fittings aspect. If you are going to go this welding/brazing route a welding forum should probably be your next stop.

Dan

My wife has been known to call me "boneheaded"..... in situations like this!

 

[Jasonized]

To braze ports onto the cylinders all you need is a small air- acetylene torch like plumbers and HVAC techs use. It will get you to about 3000F which is hot enough for most brazing operations. Figurec$300 plus by the time you get your gas. Oxy-acetylene is hotter but puts you in a different price category and requires two gas bottles. Price will be significantly higher.

Hmm.. I think using a MAPP gas torch gets you really close to the same temp (higher, if using air instead of oxy in the mix) and is much cheaper and easier to handle. That’s what I use when not welding..

 

[Jasonized]

Sigh. Okay, bending tubes without getting kinks needs special tools. However, there is a cheat that might help you…
Fill the tube with wet sand, seal both ends, then bend. Then of course, cut off the ends, and clean the heck out of it…
The proper bending tool supports the tube on all sides while bending, preventing collapse of the side walls. Filling with wet sand supports From the inside, and attempts to limit shift, so that it gets even pressure.
you NEED the proper flair…. Really.

good luck!

 

[TheOldHokie]

Sigh. Okay, bending tubes without getting kinks needs special tools. However, there is a cheat that might help you…

Just buy the frigging tool. When you are done sell it on eBay for half the cost. Someone will snatch it up.

Imperial Tool 364FHA08 Lever Type Tube Bender for 1/2" O.D. Tubing https://a.co/d/36bErPD

Dan

 

[Jasonized]

Just buy the frigging tool. When you are done sell it on eBay for half the cost. Someone will snatch it up.

Imperial Tool 364FHA08 Lever Type Tube Bender for 1/2" O.D. Tubing https://a.co/d/36bErPD

Dan

Isn't the tube he wants to bend made of steel? That one doesn't do steel... I could be wrong, since I haven't checked on what the tube material actually is. But since it's pressure tubing, I'd have thought it was steel.

But I still agree. Buy the right tool. If you look, prices of tools for bending tubing have come way down. Last time I tried to buy one, it was many hundreds of dollars. Now you can find them even cheaper than the one listed.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Imperial is being cautious. Here is thel

Isn't the tube he wants to bend made of steel? That one doesn't do steel... I could be wrong, since I haven't checked on what the tube material actually is. But since it's pressure tubing, I'd have thought it was steel.

But I still agree. Buy the right tool. If you look, prices of tools for bending tubing have come way down. Last time I tried to buy one, it was many hundreds of dollars. Now you can find them even cheaper than the one listed.

This is not my first rodeo. Imperial is a reputable OEM and being cautious in their product claims. The same cannot be said about a lot of others.

That Imperial tube bender is pretty substantial and will handle .028, .035 and .047 wall carbon steel hydraulic tube just fine. I have one and it's produced many quality bends for me.

.047 wall is good to 2700 PSI with a 4:1 design safety factor and 5390 PSI at 2:1.

.065 wall gets you to 3190 PSI and 6380 PSI respectively. That is massive overkill for most tractors.

I have not personally tested it on stainless or thicker wall carbon steel. I would expect it to handle. 065 wall carbon steel but stainless in that thickness might be marginal. Thinner wall stainless should be fine.

Dan

 

[Jasonized]

Huh... Perhaps you meant to post this link?

https://www.amazon.com/Imperial-Stride-Tool-370-FHC-Benders/dp/B002M38O5Q/ref=sr_1_3?crid=3P7IUQYY93MKF&th=1

It claims to handle steel, and looks like the one you have in your box...

 

[TheOldHokie]

Huh... Perhaps you meant to post this link?

https://www.amazon.com/Imperial-Stride-Tool-370-FHC-Benders/dp/B002M38O5Q/ref=sr_1_3?crid=3P7IUQYY93MKF&th=1

It claims to handle steel, and looks like the one you have in your box...

Yes - my bad on the link. My point remains the same. Trying to bend 1/2" hydraulic tube by hand is an exercise in futility.

Dan

 

[Jasonized]

My point remains the same. Trying to bend 1/2" hydraulic tube by hand is an exercise in futility.

Dan

Absolutely agree! Bending tubes by hand... naaaa... Just Say No! :}

 

[joesmith123]

Hmm.. I think using a MAPP gas torch gets you really close to the same temp (higher, if using air instead of oxy in the mix) and is much cheaper and easier to handle. That’s what I use when not welding..

Yes I saw that mapp gas bottles are accessible/affordable, might do that option

 

[joesmith123]

Sigh. Okay, bending tubes without getting kinks needs special tools. However, there is a cheat that might help you…
Fill the tube with wet sand, seal both ends, then bend. Then of course, cut off the ends, and clean the heck out of it…
The proper bending tool supports the tube on all sides while bending, preventing collapse of the side walls. Filling with wet sand supports From the inside, and attempts to limit shift, so that it gets even pressure.
you NEED the proper flair…. Really.

good luck!

Yes I totally understand and am taking notes

 

[joesmith123]

Just buy the frigging tool. When you are done sell it on eBay for half the cost. Someone will snatch it up.

Imperial Tool 364FHA08 Lever Type Tube Bender for 1/2" O.D. Tubing https://a.co/d/36bErPD

Dan

Yes I totally understand

 

[Jasonized]

Yes I saw that mapp gas bottles are accessible/affordable, might do that option

I spent a few extra bucks and bought the self starting torch. Point and click, instant flames. No striker to worry about. But of course, you also have to hold the trigger down while heating, so it’s a trade off.

good luck!

 

[Jim L.]

Also tubing will have a minimum bend radius, usually expressed as tube diameters. Depends on tube material, wall thickness - look up from tables so that tube is not overstressed.

Caution to never run hands or arms along a pressurized hydraulic part. If there is a leak, fluid can be injected into a person requiring a trip to the emergency room. If looking for leaks use a clean piece of paper to check and wear gloves.

A good source for information is from parker hannifin company who has been doing the JIC fittings for nearly a century. I noticed that some internet information is completely wrong and will waste your time and materials.

Another point is that it is not only the gas temperature, but the ability to transfer lots of heat to overcome thermal mass of the metals. A torch that works fine with thin wall copper may not have the umph for mass metal.

 

[D2Cat]

Also tubing will have a minimum bend radius, usually expressed as tube diameters. Depends on tube material, wall thickness - look up from tables so that tube is not overstressed.

Caution to never run hands or arms along a pressurized hydraulic part. If there is a leak, fluid can be injected into a person requiring a trip to the emergency room. If looking for leaks use a clean piece of paper to check and wear gloves.

A good source for information is from parker hannifin company who has been doing the JIC fittings for nearly a century. I noticed that some internet information is completely wrong and will waste your time and materials.

Another point is that it is not only the gas temperature, but the ability to transfer lots of heat to overcome thermal mass of the metals. A torch that works fine with thin wall copper may not have the umph for mass metal.

All of what Jim said with one addition. When working with hydraulic pressure lines and checking for leaks wear eye protection.