Kubota engineering really bad screw up

[Butch]

I have a B2410 with a RCK60-24B MMM. I added a Kubota grass bagger that incorporated a drive shaft PTO to the blower. The PTO is powered by bolting it to the shute side mower deck pulley.

Here is the problem... when you mount the blower PTO to the top of the pulley it completely covers the grease fitting that is on top of the pulley spindle. This grease fitting is where the top bearing on the mower blade gets it's lubrication. There are two grease fittings on this pulley spindle shaft one on top, as I described, and the other under the the pulley. The bottom grease fitting ONLY lubricates the lower spindle bearing.

With the PTO mounted on top of the blade pulley spindle.... there is NO WAY IN HELL TO LUB THE TOP SPINDLE BEARING.

Guys... am I missing something here....?

 

[Bluegill]

Have ya talked to the dealer about it?

 

[Butch]

Blue... I brought it to the attention of two good local dealerships. The parts people conferred with the lead mechanics and came up to the same to the same conclusion as me... it was a major screw up on kubota's end. Both dealerships are going to lay this in Kubota Corp's lap.

let's see what they come up with.... Butch

 

[Kytim]

Butch, Yeah, It's a screw-up. Most likely the blower design was an after thought, well after the deck design was final since its a accessory. Surely wasn't done by the same guy/team of designers. Guess they decided they had to compromise somewhere, changing fewer parts, lower cost, higher profits yada yada yada.

Is there a way to add an extension to the zert to get it in an area you can give it a squirt now and then? I haven't seen a pic, is it on a rotating part, I don't remember from your description as I'm typing this. Gotta be a way us "machine owner engineers" can come up with sumpthin!

 

[fast*st]

Lands pride mowers have a hidden grease fitting, LP has a small 10 inch long hydraulic hose with a grease fitting on one end that extends the fitting out to an easy to reach area, I'm sure an extension hose is the way to go.

 

[Kytim]

I too have seen extensions/hoses on and added to different mowing machines. The unknown here for me is if this particular zert is on a rotating/reciprocating assembly. That in itself would change the whole ballgame, so to speak.

 

[Butch]

Here is the deal.... where the PTO flange bolts to the spindle pulley... Kubota has cast a domed indent to accommadate the spindle nut and about 3/8" Dia and 3/8" divot in the top of the dome to clear the grease fitting on top of the spindle. What I'd like to do find a close street elle to come off the top of the spindle, then drill a hole in the side of the PTO pulley mount to extend a grease fitting out the side of the PTO flange to access the grease port. If I can figure it out with a parts list I will post the parts list , directions, and pictures of the project.
PS... This depende solely on the happen chance Kubota has left me some wiggle room.

 

[hodge]

How hard is it to pull that pto once in a while? If it isn't a major pain, then I
'd do that, instead of altering the housing. I agree with Kytim- it was most likely designed after the deck was designed, or maybe the bagger system wasn't even designed by Kubota. It's easy to point fingers, and not always so easy to design everything to be user friendly. I have certainly found other examples from other manufacturers. I am working on a Gravely rider for my uncle now- I am used to how Wheel Horse designed their stuff, and this Gravely is less than desirable.
My mother has a Ford Expedition- you have to remove the overflow tank to change a headlight bulb. We don't live in a perfect world.

 

[Lil Foot]

My mother has a Ford Expedition- you have to remove the overflow tank to change a headlight bulb.

I know what you mean.... my wife's '99 LHS requires removing the entire nose of the car to change headlight bulbs.

 

[hodge]

Or, how about a concentric slave cylinder? I had a Ford truck with a manual transmission, and the slave cylinger was plastic. It blew two different times, and you had to pull the transfer case and transmission to change it- who came up with the idea of doing away with an external unit? Or making them out of plastic? We can't change how they engineer, we just have to deal with it.

 

[Kubota Newbie]

A picture would be helpful, but I'm thinking why not just take the top grease zerk out of the spindle shaft all together and drill and tap the PTO flange adapter for a zerk so that you can pump grease directly to the area that originally had the shaft zerk and nut. It'll take a little extra grease to fill the reservoir area around the nut indent before it starts to pump it down the shaft but that will not hurt anything. Clean up the parts real good and apply a little RTV before re-assembly and life will be good. Just have to re-install the shaft zerk if the PTO adapter is ever removed.

 

[Butch]

Hodge and Newbie,
The fit between the PTO and Pulley is not even close to allow the dome to be a grease compartment to feed the removed the grease fitting. If I can't make an engineering retrofit to make this work... I am going with Hodge's advice.... pull the PTO and grease the fitting on a regular basis.

But... if I can make the retrofit... I will share with OTT.

Oh by the way... I love the bagger and the blower is one mean machine. The concept is perfect except for the hidden grease fitting.

 

[Stubbyie]

See this link for Lincoln lube fittings (aka grease fittings or zerks)

http://www.lincolnindustrial.com/Catalogs/Uploaded/Catalog_119/Lubrication Fittings and Access.pdf

Should be able to find the oddball 'extension' or 'adapter' or 'ell' that you need to elevate and expose your hidden fitting.

In our small town all of these ("Whadda ya want one of them fer"?) would be special order from NAPA or other parts houses. Try Grainger or MSC or McMaster. Perhaps Amazon.

Experience here: make durn sure of the thread of the hole and suspect metric. Might want to try a metric adapter back to something more readily available. Kubota on our stuff is a mixed bag of OEM metric and 'standard' threaded fittings. If any doubt use a quality Thread Chek'R (TM)-type thread determination check tool (flat stainless plate having multiple tight-control threaded holes). Some metric sizes are so close they'll "fit" until they pop out at an unfortunate moment thereby flattening the hole threads.

If a 'beat-in' fitting is in place you'll have to disassemble more to get it out and then decide if tapping the hole is worthwhile.

In one terribly unusual case I had to use a lathe to drill a hole longways through a 1/4-28 bolt to get the correct extension length and then use a thread-locked cut-off coupling-nut to screw the fitting into. PiA but can't run without "easily doable" grease.

Good luck. Please keep the readership advised how you overcome.

/s/Stubb

 

[Butch]

Stub... it is metric...I plan on fiddling with it when I replace the upper and lower bearings and seals. I enjoy a challenge, however, plan "B" is take the PTO off and lube the bearing. Only six bolts... not a biggy.

I would like to pose one more question to the forum... If I can get an extention outside the PTO for the grease fitting... what do you all think about throwing the PTO out of balance when spinning at full throttle? Should this be an issue?

 

[gym]

I have a B2410 with a RCK60-24B MMM. I added a Kubota grass bagger that incorporated a drive shaft PTO to the blower. The PTO is powered by bolting it to the shute side mower deck pulley.

Here is the problem... when you mount the blower PTO to the top of the pulley it completely covers the grease fitting that is on top of the pulley spindle. This grease fitting is where the top bearing on the mower blade gets it's lubrication. There are two grease fittings on this pulley spindle shaft one on top, as I described, and the other under the the pulley. The bottom grease fitting ONLY lubricates the lower spindle bearing.

With the PTO mounted on top of the blade pulley spindle.... there is NO WAY IN HELL TO LUB THE TOP SPINDLE BEARING.

Guys... am I missing something here....?

Just a thought. Is there a way that you could cut a groove in the pulley to allow access to the other zert?

 

[Butch]

Gym... the clearance is so close that Kubota had to drill or cast a dimple in the dome of the PTO mount for the grease fitting to clear when mounted on the spindle pulley... it is what it is...

 

[Big Kahuna]

Butch what you're looking for is a rotary union, you could put a grease line out and fasten it solid while the union rotates with the shaft, they are not cheap but solve the problem. Go to Mcmaster-Carr and just type in rotary union. as for metric threads Parker has metric sizes.

Big Kahuna

 

[Apogee]

Pics would be great of the problem!

 

[Butch]

Guys... I am going to charge up the camera tomorrow and post the pics.... but just between us guys... don't let your wives or significant others see this as there will be a bounty put on my head! Picture this.... you have a spindle pulley, nut, and verticle grease fitting sticking straight up on the mower deck. The pulley has four tapped threaded holes to mount the Blower PTO. Think of the pulley, nut and grease fitting as the Boob and Nipple. Think of the PTO as a bra... the cast dome is a bra and the divot in the dome is for the nipple.

This is what it reminds me of...

Does this make sense...?

 

[Lil Foot]

I was thinking along the same lines as I started to read your description.....
I am one sick puppy......