Fixing hole in side of block

[GreensvilleJay]

For the actual 'patch',find similar thickness steel plate,though 3/16 would be fine. Make a cardboard template and note where the bends are and bend in a vice 'as required'.Make the patch piece about 2mm (1/16" smaller). Now put block on the other side and use whatever steel you have to support the patch from the inside WITH a sheet of aluminum between the patch and the support. Bronze won't stick to aluminum, so if any 'filler' bronze drips onto it, NOT a problem.
Pretty sure even 1/8" sheet steel would be fine and a lot easier to fabricate into a patch. You could maybe use 2 pieces to 'fill' the thickness of the block. Just be sure to clean the 'patch' really,really well....you want it shiny and NO oil on it. For the actual bonding, you'll probably want to 'tack braze' corners then 1/2 the distance, then 1/2 again not a continuous flow of bronze to minimize warping of the patch.

 

[PoTreeBoy]

Don't forget the flux.

 

[lugbolt]

Holy mackerel King Fish THAT'S nothing short of genius !
Some of these guys never cease to amaze me with their knowledge and willingness in sharing with folks they never met but this window thingy is on a different level. Granted RW scissors' endeavors could be said to be for the ,,,,,aheem,,,,shall we say "adventurous" or some might say self destructive but non the less valuable contributions for those into such.

Plexiglass window in crankcase. Stop for a minute and consider had GM included that idea on Corvairs and Vegas, just to name a couple. Take the 6.0L Ford diesel,once root problems were realized the fixes were inexpensive and permanent. In retrospect had engineers been able to look inside 6.0L the problems would be obvious right away and saved FMC billions $$$$$$. If John Force's pit was able to peer inside motors,think of the game changing decisions the pit could make.

Oleracer you best get in line at patent office before some scallywag steals this idea.

I did kawasaki dealer work for a long time too (they had Kubota yamaha kawasucky bad boy hustler and outboards).

The KAF620 "Mule" had a little pushrod 620cc V-twin. Good little engine but they aren't stupidproof. Had one show up, guy says it makes a weird noise. Ok cool I've seen a million + of them and I can probably figure it out. WOuldn't you know, it was a noise I aint never heard before. I did a lot of digging and couldn't find it, not in the clutch (removed it), not rocker arm related, not pushrods, just an odd noise. I was down to removing the engine for teardown and I already knew that the rear cylinder's head gasket leaked a little bit, so I pulled that head off, put the intake manifold back on and taped up the rear cylinder's intake runner (stops the vacuum leak), then fired it up with the head off. Using my trusty smartphone with the slow-pro app, I was able to isolate it to a piston issue. At that point it was a matter of calling customer with estimated cost. The interesting part was seeing the engine run without a cylinder head, especially in slow motion. Wish I still had the video.

There is a youtube channel I think called warped perception or something like that where he puts a plexiglass cylinder head on a briggs & scrapiron head and runs it on gas, then on nitromethane. Watch his channel. Lots of cool stuff there, right down to a see-through rotary (wankel) engine. Until I saw that one I was not 100% sure how the wankel's work, but with that video, now I am 100% positive and 100% positive that they are a flawed design that just happens to be light weight and have an interesting following. Guy pitted next to me at the races once, had a blown (not turbocharged....) methanol injected 13B, no muffler, two tubes about 6" long each, out of the case and that was it.. I hated that thing. If he ever parks next to me again I am moving my stuff somewhere else.

 

[joesmith123]

Make a cardboard template and note where the bends are and bend in a vice 'as required'.Make the patch piece about 2mm (1/16" smaller).

Yes I am listening, make the patch a bit smaller then the hole, bronze will fill the gap between the patch and the engine block

For the actual bonding, you'll probably want to 'tack braze' corners then 1/2 the distance, then 1/2 again not a continuous flow of bronze to minimize warping of the patch.

Yes I am fixing to do like the guy did in the video, he had a blanket to not let the engine block cool down too fast in the area he was brazing

The only other item I can practice on is an actual cast iron skillet that I will put a hole in, and practice patching that properly, get familiar with the nature of the situation, then do the actual brazing on the engine block

Don't forget the flux.

Yes I have not yet gone out to get these materials, I am guessing that a place that is gonna fill up the welding tanks should have bronze rods and the proper flux

 

[GreensvilleJay]

the rods will have the flux on them. I used a lot of 'Goldenrod' rods decades ago.
Another 'trick'.. Rough up the edge of the patch where the bronze will flow onto with a course wire brush. The idea is to make a lot of 'tooth' that the molten bronze can 'grip'. While technically not required, it does add a bit of mechanical support,helps 'bind' the pieces together.
You'll spend 90 % of your time CLEANING the 2 parts, 5% making the patch and 5% brazing them together.

 

[joesmith123]

the rods will have the flux on them. I used a lot of 'Goldenrod' rods decades ago.
Another 'trick'.. Rough up the edge of the patch where the bronze will flow onto with a course wire brush. The idea is to make a lot of 'tooth' that the molten bronze can 'grip'. While technically not required, it does add a bit of mechanical support,helps 'bind' the pieces together.
You'll spend 90 % of your time CLEANING the 2 parts, 5% making the patch and 5% brazing them together.

Yall have no clue how helpful you are just by giving yalls 2 cents

OK yes these are the tanks I'm fixing to go fill up

 

[fried1765]

Yall have no clue how helpful you are just by giving yalls 2 cents

View attachment 135507

OK yes these are the tanks I'm fixing to go fill up

Looks like torch tip may be too small for the job.

 

[Lil Foot]

Take it for what it is worth:
My guess would be that by the time you preheat the (whole) block hot enough with a rosebud, you may not have enough gas left to do/finish the brazing.

Not sure if it will work with bronze rods and cast iron, but I have used brass rod on steel & iron with powdered borax soap as a flux for decades.
Just pour some pure borax in a cup/can, heat the rod, dunk it in the borax powder, and it will come out coated for an inch or more, then braze away.
This method worked flawlessly brazing cutting tools to Cavitron Ultrasonic concentrating cones, which were then x-rayed to ensure there were no voids in the braze joint.

 

[joesmith123]

Practice on iron skillet

Iron skillet: Cut a hole in the iron skillet using the cutting torch, then practice putting a patch on it using the bronze and the flux

Oxy acetylene tanks, filled. I will not touch them until I go back and verify the proper way

Up close of the hole in the block after cleaning: I'm fixing to do like the guy said in the video, grind down and taper the shape, so that when I make patch, it will hug the block and make the braze more successful

Cutting and welding torches, I will watch videos before touching them

Bronze rod to bond steel to cast iron

Bronze flux

Flux ingredients: borax anhydrous and boric acid

Broken BX1500 bucket, I think this is 1/4 inch steel. It is very thick.

Plan: slice it using the cutting torch, then practice welding a patch first on the cast iron skillet, then on the engine block

Now: go watch videos of the proper way to use the cutting and welding torches

Best video that i've found so far: turn on acetylene first, light it, then add oxygen to neutralize the flame

Shut down: turn off acetylene first, then oxygen

It has such immense power to slice through 1 inch steel, remarkable

 

[Workerbee]

Practice on iron skillet

View attachment 135531

Iron skillet: Cut a hole in the iron skillet using the cutting torch, then practice putting a patch on it using the bronze and the flux
View attachment 135534

Oxy acetylene tanks, filled. I will not touch them until I go back and verify the proper way


View attachment 135535

Up close of the hole in the block after cleaning: I'm fixing to do like the guy said in the video, grind down and taper the shape, so that when I make patch, it will hug the block and make the braze more successful
View attachment 135536

Cutting and welding torches, I will watch videos before touching them


View attachment 135537

Bronze rod to bond steel to cast iron



View attachment 135538

Bronze flux

View attachment 135539

Flux ingredients: borax anhydrous and boric acid


View attachment 135540

Broken BX1500 bucket, I think this is 1/4 inch steel. It is very thick.

Plan: slice it using the cutting torch, then practice welding a patch first on the cast iron skillet, then on the engine block

Now: go watch videos of the proper way to use the cutting and welding torches

Best video that i've found so far: turn on acetylene first, light it, then add oxygen to neutralize the flame

Shut down: turn off acetylene first, then oxygen

It has such immense power to slice through 1 inch steel, remarkable

~some~ torches can cut thru 1” steel. Yours certainly couldn’t. Theres a range of tip sizes depending on the torch you have. Those charts can be found online. The same goes for your welding tips. The thicker the work generally bigger tips are needed.

 

[fried1765]

Practice on iron skillet

View attachment 135531

Iron skillet: Cut a hole in the iron skillet using the cutting torch, then practice putting a patch on it using the bronze and the flux
View attachment 135534

Oxy acetylene tanks, filled. I will not touch them until I go back and verify the proper way


View attachment 135535

Up close of the hole in the block after cleaning: I'm fixing to do like the guy said in the video, grind down and taper the shape, so that when I make patch, it will hug the block and make the braze more successful
View attachment 135536

Cutting and welding torches, I will watch videos before touching them


View attachment 135537

Bronze rod to bond steel to cast iron



View attachment 135538

Bronze flux

View attachment 135539

Flux ingredients: borax anhydrous and boric acid


View attachment 135540

Broken BX1500 bucket, I think this is 1/4 inch steel. It is very thick.

Plan: slice it using the cutting torch, then practice welding a patch first on the cast iron skillet, then on the engine block

Now: go watch videos of the proper way to use the cutting and welding torches

Best video that i've found so far: turn on acetylene first, light it, then add oxygen to neutralize the flame

Shut down: turn off acetylene first, then oxygen

It has such immense power to slice through 1 inch steel, remarkable

Those VERY small tanks just may not have enough total gas to do the necessary practicing, as well as the actual repair.

 

[DustyRusty]

See if you can trade those tanks for larger ones. The Oxygen tank is usually larger than the acetylene tank

 

[joesmith123]

Cannot get a neutral flame using the cutting torch

Cutting torch tip: I ignited the acetylene, but it is staying close to the black areas, then once I give it some oxygen, it pops, does not turn blue

Took out the tip, this is where the flame is staying, maybe it is not the correct tip? I will look at other tips and see if they also have these holes at the bottom

Successfully got the welding torch to make a perfect welding tip, small blue neutral flame, perfect for brazing. I will see if it is possible to cut steel with the welding tip, I did hit the cast iron skillet with the welding torch to get a feel for it, the areas on the skillet that are gray

Another tip that came with the kit, tried to make a neutral flame using this tip, did not work, only able to light the acetylene, if I give oxygen, pops

I might not worry about the cutting torch, use a grinder to cut a hole in the skillet, then just use the welding torch to make the braze on the cast iron skillet

Cutting torch looks and seems way more dangerous than the welding torch, forget about the cutting torch for now, focus on the brazing/welding torch, cut the metal pieces using a good grinder with good cutting discs of different sizes. The welding torch is smaller, less dangerous, and it is very precise.

I dont think cutting torch is necessary in this situation. If I had big beams that needed to be cut, and open space and all the PPE, then yes. But in this instance, it will cause more damage than help. I was thinking one could make a small cutting flame, but I think it needs tons of gases projecting forward, and it will do damage to the whatever is behind the area you are cutting. Being realistic with my talent and experience, forget about cutting torch for now. Cut any metal you need to using cutting wheels, air tools that can cut and grind metal, etc. Its a safer route.

Only thing stopping the job from moving forward is a good fire extinguisher close by, I try to grab that tonight if I get the chance

Itll get figured out

 

[fried1765]

Cannot get a neutral flame using the cutting torch

View attachment 135643

Cutting torch tip: I ignited the acetylene, but it is staying close to the black areas, then once I give it some oxygen, it pops, does not turn blue

View attachment 135644

Took out the tip, this is where the flame is staying, maybe it is not the correct tip? I will look at other tips and see if they also have these holes at the bottom


View attachment 135645

Successfully got the welding torch to make a perfect welding tip, small blue neutral flame, perfect for brazing. I will see if it is possible to cut steel with the welding tip, I did hit the cast iron skillet with the welding torch to get a feel for it, the areas on the skillet that are gray


View attachment 135646

Another tip that came with the kit, tried to make a neutral flame using this tip, did not work, only able to light the acetylene, if I give oxygen, pops

I might not worry about the cutting torch, use a grinder to cut a hole in the skillet, then just use the welding torch to make the braze on the cast iron skillet

Cutting torch looks and seems way more dangerous than the welding torch, forget about the cutting torch for now, focus on the brazing/welding torch, cut the metal pieces using a good grinder with good cutting discs of different sizes. The welding torch is smaller, less dangerous, and it is very precise.

I dont think cutting torch is necessary in this situation. If I had big beams that needed to be cut, and open space and all the PPE, then yes. But in this instance, it will cause more damage than help. I was thinking one could make a small cutting flame, but I think it needs tons of gases projecting forward, and it will do damage to the whatever is behind the area you are cutting. Being realistic with my talent and experience, forget about cutting torch for now. Cut any metal you need to using cutting wheels, air tools that can cut and grind metal, etc. Its a safer route.

Only thing stopping the job from moving forward is a good fire extinguisher close by, I try to grab that tonight if I get the chance

Itll get figured out

A very dangerous experiment for a person obviously unfamiliar with such equipment!

 

[GreensvilleJay]

not too sure what/why you need to cut anything with the torch.
Use an angle grinder with thin (3/64) discs, then grind using 1/8" discs to correct shape.

I used bronze rods on cast iron Willys tranny , zero issue.

 

[joesmith123]

A very dangerous experiment for a person obviously unfamiliar with such equipment!

Dont worry, I am fixing to not touch the cutting torch, and only use the welding torch with a small brazing flame

nothing will be done until I am fully ready with extinguisher, and even a bucket of water close by

not too sure what/why you need to cut anything with the torch.

I am with you, I was thinking it was similar to the welding/brazing tip. No, it seems to be a whole other craft/art. It was way more dangerous, needs tremendous gases to rip through the steel, and everything behind it for at least a foot will get hit with the insane flame.

Use an angle grinder with thin (3/64) discs, then grind using 1/8" discs to correct shape.

Yes I do have 4.5 inch cutting and grinding discs. I need to look into: a tool that would take smaller cutting and grinding discs to fit smaller areas and be more intricate with the metal shaping. But I will just use what I have for now if I can make it work. I'll watch videos of how professionals shape metal and the tools they use.

I used bronze rods on cast iron Willys tranny , zero issue.

Were you bonding cast iron to cast iron, or a different metal to the cast iron transmission? I am excited to hear that it worked out.

I'll try to make progress later on: I could use a hole saw to make the hole in the cast iron skillet, then cut the broken bucket using the 4.5 inch cutting wheel to make the patch, then start to experiment with making the patch stick to the cast iron skillet successfully using the welding tip.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

hmm, one option... maybe take the patch steel with template laid out and have a guy with plasma torch cut it for you ? Might cost you $20 ? Get it cut bigger and then you can 'grind to fit'.

I did cast iron to cast iron. One of the mounting tabs broke on the transmission that the transfer case connected to. I put several 1,000s of miles on it afterwards, maybe 1/4rd hard off road.

The 'trick' to understand is cast iron takes heat AWAY from the heat source real fast, so you need a lot of heat BEFORE you can start brazing the patch.

brazing is just 'high temperature soldering', the way I look at it. Get the parts hot and bronze flows,remove heat and you're done.

 

[Russell King]

Cutting with flame is an interesting process and is really the oxygen doing the work (oxidizing) the iron or steel. The flame is used to heat the material then when you press the extra lever of the cutting torch the oxygen should pierce the metal and start a process where the metal is reacting with the oxygen and being “burned” . In some cases you can then shut off the acetylene gas and continue working with just the oxygen from the tip. (Don’t try this because it won’t work very well if you don’t do it well).

Anyway the popping is not good and sort of dangerous. They make some devices that will stop the flame from getting into the hoses and to the tanks. You should be sure your rig has that or add it if it doesn’t just for safety.
Here is a link that discusses safety.

Oxy-acetylene Torch Safety

The oxy-acetylene torch is a popular heat source in the brazing industry. It offers the advantage of a 5,500°F flame temperature with the versatility of a hand-held system. However, operators must observe safety precautions; while oxygen and acetylene are not volatile gasses, they are...

blog.lucasmilhaupt.com

Here are two links about the popping. I think you need to clean your tips properly.

Why Does My Cutting Torch Pop? Here’s How to Fix It. | Make it From Metal

There are few things more annoying than fighting with your tools. Having an oxy acetylene torch constantly popping and blowing out is beyond frustrating. So…

makeitfrommetal.com

| weldingboss.com

It is so frustrating when your welding torch pops in the middle of a project, and you can’t figure out the problem. It’s pretty scary…

weldingboss.com

You can also use propane with oxygen to cut steel if your rig is properly set up for that. The propane is cheaper and more readily available than acetylene but you really don’t need to worry with that now.

And never lay the acetylene bottle on its side. If you do then you must turn it right end up and not use it any time soon. Read about that here.

Importance of Acetoning - Dissolving Acetylene in Acetone

Acetoning of acetylene when storing it in a cylinder is vital to the safe and effective storage and functioning of acetylene.

rexarc.com

 

[Workerbee]

Be careful with the cutting discs not to leave a cut extending into the good area. It might act like a crack and keep moving as you heat it to braze.

 

[fried1765]

Cutting with flame is an interesting process and is really the oxygen doing the work (oxidizing) the iron or steel. The flame is used to heat the material then when you press the extra lever of the cutting torch the oxygen should pierce the metal and start a process where the metal is reacting with the oxygen and being “burned” . In some cases you can then shut off the acetylene gas and continue working with just the oxygen from the tip. (Don’t try this because it won’t work very well if you don’t do it well).

Anyway the popping is not good and sort of dangerous. They make some devices that will stop the flame from getting into the hoses and to the tanks. You should be sure your rig has that or add it if it doesn’t just for safety.
Here is a link that discusses safety.

Oxy-acetylene Torch Safety

The oxy-acetylene torch is a popular heat source in the brazing industry. It offers the advantage of a 5,500°F flame temperature with the versatility of a hand-held system. However, operators must observe safety precautions; while oxygen and acetylene are not volatile gasses, they are...

blog.lucasmilhaupt.com

Here are two links about the popping. I think you need to clean your tips properly.

Why Does My Cutting Torch Pop? Here’s How to Fix It. | Make it From Metal

There are few things more annoying than fighting with your tools. Having an oxy acetylene torch constantly popping and blowing out is beyond frustrating. So…

makeitfrommetal.com

| weldingboss.com

It is so frustrating when your welding torch pops in the middle of a project, and you can’t figure out the problem. It’s pretty scary…

weldingboss.com

You can also use propane with oxygen to cut steel if your rig is properly set up for that. The propane is cheaper and more readily available than acetylene but you really don’t need to worry with that now.

And never lay the acetylene bottle on its side. If you do then you must turn it right end up and not use it any time soon. Read about that here.

Importance of Acetoning - Dissolving Acetylene in Acetone

Acetoning of acetylene when storing it in a cylinder is vital to the safe and effective storage and functioning of acetylene.

rexarc.com

A first time fix, by a brazing neophyte is not likely to go well.