BX23S Starter engaging while running

[Harold Youngblood]

My Bx23s , 2020 with~500 hours started squealing intermittently a few days ago. I thought I had a stick hung in the fly wheel. It turned out that my starter was engaging while working the tractor. I smoked the starter commutator. I replaced the starter. Running around 2500 rpm I can bounce or move the tractor, the starter engages. I’m waiting for a Service manual to understand starter circuit. I’ve tried wiggling harness from switch to starter to no avail. Is the starter relay the 4 prong that is direction mount sensitive and shrink wrapped?
(12.8 volts and 13.8 running) all other electrical components operating normally.

 

[jaxs]

I doubt there being an electrical but you should be thankful if it is because the other possability is far more serious. If you have a fel,backhoe or blade something may be broke or bent in the vacinity of flywheel allowing things to move around enough to engage starter. While lifting/pulling and pushing,look for flex or movement around rear of engine and at starter.

 

[Roadworthy]

The basic starter circuit is pretty simple. If all the safeties are satisfied when you turn the key the starter engages. Normally when you're running all these are not satisfied so turning the key shouldn't activate the starter. The key switch energizes a solenoid (a really heavy relay) which in turn feeds the starter. Are you getting power to the solenoid somehow without the key? Is the solenoid activating on its own?

 

[NorthwoodsLife]

Sounds like the key switch is faulty.

 

[Lug66]

You need two safety switches (Interlocks) to complete the start circuit. (To go from start to run you need the other safety switches.). HST pedal .. Neutral (ON) and the Independent PTO lever is disengaged..(ON). The start switch sends the current to the two interlocks which need to be ON and then current will go to the start relay then to the start solenoid.
If you’re moving and/or PTO is engaged then under normal conditions the start circuit is disabled. I’d recommend checking the start relay first and then wiring. The start switch would need the failure of two safety switches before current would reach the start relay.

 

[NorthwoodsLife]

You need two safety switches (Interlocks) to complete the start circuit. (To go from start to run you need the other safety switches.). HST pedal .. Neutral (ON) and the Independent PTO lever is disengaged..(ON). The start switch sends the current to the two interlocks which need to be ON and then current will go to the start relay then to the start solenoid.
If you’re moving and/or PTO is engaged then under normal conditions the start circuit is disabled. I’d recommend checking the start relay first and then wiring. The start switch would need the failure of two safety switches before current would reach the start relay.

Excellent Information.

 

[Fordtech86]

Bx2380 started on its own

Are Bx’s stop solenoid in the pump or on top? If on top all you have to do to start, is jump the spade connector on starter to power, it will run. That bypasses every safety there is. Just tried it on a F3680, didn’t run but a second as it’s stop solenoid is in the injection pump. Just jump...

www.orangetractortalks.com

this may or may not help

edit: meant to link that thread, not that specific post.

 

[Harold Youngblood]

I doubt there being an electrical but you should be thankful if it is because the other possability is far more serious. If you have a fel,backhoe or blade something may be broke or bent in the vacinity of flywheel allowing things to move around enough to engage starter. While lifting/pulling and pushing,look for flex or movement around rear of engine and at starter.

I will check that. Thank You

 

[Harold Youngblood]

Excellent Information.

I was suspecting the relay. If I am looking at the correct one, I tapped it while it was running and it did not engage. Denso 061700-3771

 

[Harold Youngblood]

The basic starter circuit is pretty simple. If all the safeties are satisfied when you turn the key the starter engages. Normally when you're running all these are not satisfied so turning the key shouldn't activate the starter. The key switch energizes a solenoid (a really heavy relay) which in turn feeds the starter. Are you getting power to the solenoid somehow without the key? Is the solenoid activating on its own?

I suspect the solenoid is getting power but it will only do it when it is running. I can’t hear it engage over the engine noise. I just here the high pitch from the starter speed. The relay may have a loose piece in it. I got one coming just in case.

 

[Harold Youngblood]

Excellent Information.

Makes perfect sense. Thank You

 

[tinkerwitheverything]

If your mechanically inclined you can remove the key switch and take it apart . It's plastic so it clips together. Just be aware that there are small springs inside so don't lose them . Once apart check to make sure that none of the copper contacts are broken and maybe shorting against each other causing the starter contact to energize . I suspect your switch it bad inside. BTW I've used copper from copper plumbing pipe cut to proper width / length to refurbish the switch on one that I used to own.

 

[jaxs]

Bx2380 started on its own

Are Bx’s stop solenoid in the pump or on top? If on top all you have to do to start, is jump the spade connector on starter to power, it will run. That bypasses every safety there is. Just tried it on a F3680, didn’t run but a second as it’s stop solenoid is in the injection pump. Just jump...

www.orangetractortalks.com

this may or may not help

edit: meant to link that thread, not that specific post.

I'm glad you came back for the edit, I was about to question your qualifications.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

disconnect the control wire at the starter, put test light on it, if there's 12v then ignition switch is faulty

 

[Harold Youngblood]

My Bx23s , 2020 with~500 hours started squealing intermittently a few days ago. I thought I had a stick hung in the fly wheel. It turned out that my starter was engaging while working the tractor. I smoked the starter commutator. I replaced the starter. Running around 2500 rpm I can bounce or move the tractor, the starter engages. I’m waiting for a Service manual to understand starter circuit. I’ve tried wiggling harness from switch to starter to no avail. Is the starter relay the 4 prong that is direction mount sensitive and shrink wrapped?
(12.8 volts and 13.8 running) all other electrical components operating normally.

I thank each of you for your time and replies. It ended up being the Starter relay under the dash A2F1CSQ CIT RELAY. I am back in business. I just wish that it would have failed open instead of frying my starter. They don't give them away. $$

 

[Robert Konkel]

My Bx23s , 2020 with~500 hours started squealing intermittently a few days ago. I thought I had a stick hung in the fly wheel. It turned out that my starter was engaging while working the tractor. I smoked the starter commutator. I replaced the starter. Running around 2500 rpm I can bounce or move the tractor, the starter engages. I’m waiting for a Service manual to understand starter circuit. I’ve tried wiggling harness from switch to starter to no avail. Is the starter relay the 4 prong that is direction mount sensitive and shrink wrapped?
(12.8 volts and 13.8 running) all other electrical components operating normally.

MINE IS DOING THE SAME THING !

 

[jaxs]

MINE IS DOING THE SAME THING !

Welcome aboard Robert. We can take your problem form here but going foward (YOU DO PLAN TO HANG AROUND?) start a new thread for future problems,its free and always works out better.

Read post #2 then unplug start wire from solinoid each time after starting engine and leave it unplugged until engine is turned off. Make sure to tape and/or place wire where it can't bounce around and short while disconnected. If starter still engages while wire is disconnected, read post #2 again and give us an update. To ascertain something electrical is at fault you can put a test light on disconnected wire while tractor is in use. If light flickers or comes on you know the problem is electrical,likly switch.