BT600 backhoe swings right but not back left

[TheOldHokie]

OK, that makes sense, now wondering why those 3 parts ( 2 seals and plate) are different on the 'top' end ? I'd have thought ,they'd be the same pieces...
It'd be nice to have one of these to examine but at $1000 Canucks, kinda pricey just to 'see how it works'.

Different diameters and/or cross sections would be my guess. The shaft seals contain the small amounts of oil that leak past the spools. Very simple mechanism and not much to see.

Dan

 

[TheOldHokie]

It has nothing to do with misogyny, but with the information that I have gathered in reading her posts in this thread. I have no prejudice against women as you imply. I agree that this job has nothing to do with gender, I just believe in giving everyone, both men, and women the facts of the job and what can go wrong. It is entirely up to TG if she wants to move forward once she understands the scope of the job. If she decides to move forward with the task then I hope that she will be successful.

There is no need to bring gender into the experience conversation.

Dan

 

[Tractor Gal]

Gentlemen, the dialogue in this thread is priceless! Thanks for allowing me to smile. While not necessary, may I contribute a bit of my experiences. My father was a DIY in years gone by. Because of his interest, it was easy for me to learn from him. Some girls/women have no interest and it's the same for men. Some have an interest in mechanics, some don't. it's all good.
In the way-back machine, he taught me to replace points, plugs, condensers, etc. I have a 1944 2N which has had numerous need for parts replacement. It's been "in the family" for years so it has needed quite a few repairs...new water pump, radiator, Ferguson system needing adjustment, etc. All repairs were easy peasy.

But this new toy (BX23) has produced issues on a different scale, primarily a diesel engine and hydraulics, and let's not forget the need for metric tools. Since I hadn't had exposure to these, it has been a learning curve...also enjoyable. While the concepts are new, reading parts diagrams remains the same and the enjoyment of DIY remains high. Yes, I get frustrated from time to time with the hard to access areas being almost as difficult as the lack of experience. Probably the greatest hurdle for repairing is the lack of physical strength for some of these things.

So, in finding this forum with the input of so many to help unravel the "how to," and I so appreciate the input from seasoned "fixers" who are willing to spend time to help those who are still "becoming seasoned." I intend to tackle this repair. It doesn't not look like the actual repair is the bigger of the issues, as was stated above. It is getting to the part to diagnose and repair. But, again, I intend to proceed.

As probably all of you are experiencing, the coming weather is going to curtail doing anything for a few days. The garage is not heated. That should tell it all! I'll keep mulling and as discoveries and repair ideas are made by others, I'll appreciate hearing them.

The members on this board are great. Thank you ALL. Success in this repair is just ahead.

TG

 

[TheOldHokie]

Gentlemen, the dialogue in this thread is priceless! Thanks for allowing me to smile. While not necessary, may I contribute a bit of my experiences. My father was a DIY in years gone by. Because of his interest, it was easy for me to learn from him. Some girls/women have no interest and it's the same for men. Some have an interest in mechanics, some don't. it's all good.
In the way-back machine, he taught me to replace points, plugs, condensers, etc. I have a 1944 2N which has had numerous need for parts replacement. It's been "in the family" for years so it has needed quite a few repairs...new water pump, radiator, Ferguson system needing adjustment, etc. All repairs were easy peasy.

But this new toy (BX23) has produced issues on a different scale, primarily a diesel engine and hydraulics, and let's not forget the need for metric tools. Since I hadn't had exposure to these, it has been a learning curve...also enjoyable. While the concepts are new, reading parts diagrams remains the same and the enjoyment of DIY remains high. Yes, I get frustrated from time to time with the hard to access areas being almost as difficult as the lack of experience. Probably the greatest hurdle for repairing is the lack of physical strength for some of these things.

So, in finding this forum with the input of so many to help unravel the "how to," and I so appreciate the input from seasoned "fixers" who are willing to spend time to help those who are still "becoming seasoned." I intend to tackle this repair. It doesn't not look like the actual repair is the bigger of the issues, as was stated above. It is getting to the part to diagnose and repair. But, again, I intend to proceed.

As probably all of you are experiencing, the coming weather is going to curtail doing anything for a few days. The garage is not heated. That should tell it all! I'll keep mulling and as discoveries and repair ideas are made by others, I'll appreciate hearing them.

The members on this board are great. Thank you ALL. Success in this repair is just ahead.

TG

Nicely stated

Might I suggest an inexpensive and worthwhile addition to your garage would be a 150K BTU forced air construction heater. It probably wont actually heat the garage but it will definitely take a lot of the pain out of cold weather work. Inside, out of the elements, with a good floor and just a little warmth got me through for many years.

Dan

 

[D2Cat]

Nicely stated

Might I suggest an inexpensive and worthwhile addition to your garage would be a 150K BTU forced air construction heater. It probably wont actually heat the garage but it will definitely take a lot of the pain out of cold weather work. Inside, out of the elements, with a good floor and just a little warmth got me through for many years.

Dan

She probably doesn't need anything that large. 50K BTU would do fine, I think.... after all she is in NC.

 

[fried1765]

She probably doesn't need anything that large. 50K BTU would do fine, I think.... after all she is in NC.

60K BTU Mr. Heater (propane) at Northern Tool = $79.99
60K BTU Mr. Heater (propane) at Lowes = $99.00

 

[#40Fan]

I think what everyone is saying is; "Go get some heat! We can't wait for the answer!"

 

[Tractor Gal]

OK...a little progress is better than no progress at all.

I switched out the swing hoses and boom hoses. The swing worked just fine but the boom didn't, so now I am certain it is not the cylinder.

I also removed the lever support plate so I could access the pins for the spool. I removed the pin holding the shaft of the lever so that I could move the spool 180 degrees in the event there was a small piece of debris causing the problem. Apparently, there is nothing...at least nothing that can be dislodged with this process.

So, I've looked...and mulled...about removing the control valve assembly. It does not look too daunting...twist tie each pair of hoses and label as well as take a picture of the orientation. Remove the push rivets that hold the cover plate to access the bolts that hold the control valve assembly. Remove those bolts/screws and the assembly can be removed from the tractor.

The plan is to only work on the one section for the swing valve. It is on the end so hopefully the whole thing is not going to "fall apart."
I can remove the cap and other components to hopefully see the problem. Messick's has a kit that contains the spring, O rings, etc., so that may be all that is needed. I'm not going to order anything until I confirm which part needs replacing.

This process needs to be done when I have concentrated time so that's going to be a bit into the future. There are a lot of things going on right now. I will try to take pictures to document the process and/or explain my error! :-( Hopefully, it's the process!

Thanks again for all the help.

TG

 

[woodman55]

OK...a little progress is better than no progress at all.

I switched out the swing hoses and boom hoses. The swing worked just fine but the boom didn't, so now I am certain it is not the cylinder.

I also removed the lever support plate so I could access the pins for the spool. I removed the pin holding the shaft of the lever so that I could move the spool 180 degrees in the event there was a small piece of debris causing the problem. Apparently, there is nothing...at least nothing that can be dislodged with this process.

So, I've looked...and mulled...about removing the control valve assembly. It does not look too daunting...twist tie each pair of hoses and label as well as take a picture of the orientation. Remove the push rivets that hold the cover plate to access the bolts that hold the control valve assembly. Remove those bolts/screws and the assembly can be removed from the tractor.

The plan is to only work on the one section for the swing valve. It is on the end so hopefully the whole thing is not going to "fall apart."
I can remove the cap and other components to hopefully see the problem. Messick's has a kit that contains the spring, O rings, etc., so that may be all that is needed. I'm not going to order anything until I confirm which part needs replacing.

This process needs to be done when I have concentrated time so that's going to be a bit into the future. There are a lot of things going on right now. I will try to take pictures to document the process and/or explain my error! :-( Hopefully, it's the process!

Thanks again for all the help.

TG

This may be a silly question, but does the lever have full travel ? I am just wondering if there is something, or corrosion limiting the travel of the lever.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

YES.. spend 60 seconds and compare it's travel vs the one on the other end, that is similar. Since the cover's off you CAN see what should happen (valve that works) vs the one that doesn't.
You do NOT need the tractor running for this..just be careful...

 

[Tractor Gal]

No, there is not full travel if you are talking about the spool itself going up and down. Or, the joy stick lever attached to the spool. Either one is the same...not full travel. The spool lifts up when the joy stick lever is pushed to the right but the spool will not go down when pushed to the left to move the swing to the left.

I do not believe there is corrosion...or at least none is visible. It doesn't seem like there would be inner corrosion but I wouldn't know.

 

[ruger1980]

There is also no need to separate the valve sections unless you need to replace one. Everything in the section can be removed and checked with the entire valve assembly complete.

 

[woodman55]

No, there is not full travel if you are talking about the spool itself going up and down. Or, the joy stick lever attached to the spool. Either one is the same...not full travel. The spool lifts up when the joy stick lever is pushed to the right but the spool will not go down when pushed to the left to move the swing to the left.

I do not believe there is corrosion...or at least none is visible. It doesn't seem like there would be inner corrosion but I wouldn't know.

I meant the lever, so with the swing spool disconnected from the lever, both levers should have the same amount of travel. The side to side travel on both levers should be approximately the same. If anything with the swing spool disconnected, the swing may be a bit greater than normal.

I would say one of your next steps would be to disconnect the spool from the lever, and check the lever travel independent of the spool. That will tell you whether it is lever, or spool related. Hope this helps.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Maybe post a good picture or two of the 'assembly'. perhaps 'long distance eyes' can see something you can't ?

 

[Tractor Gal]

There is also no need to separate the valve sections unless you need to replace one. Everything in the section can be removed and checked with the entire valve assembly complete.

That's exactly what I have seen on the diagram and plan to do. Sounds easy...will I be fooled again?! Thanks for the confirmation.

TG

 

[Tractor Gal]

I meant the lever, so with the swing spool disconnected from the lever, both levers should have the same amount of travel. The side to side travel on both levers should be approximately the same. If anything with the swing spool disconnected, the swing may be a bit greater than normal.

I would say one of your next steps would be to disconnect the spool from the lever, and check the lever travel independent of the spool. That will tell you whether it is lever, or spool related. Hope this helps.

Your idea seems good. But, since the swing works when its hoses are attached to a different control valve, it seems to me that it is that one valve only. The levers seem ok. Thanks for the thought.

TG

 

[ruger1980]

That's exactly what I have seen on the diagram and plan to do. Sounds easy...will I be fooled again?! Thanks for the confirmation.

TG

What I would recommend is to make certain that there is nothing in the linkage causing the lack of travle of the spool as has been pointed out by disconnecting the linkage and verify it moves freely. Then I would reconnect the linkage and remove the centering spring cap on the bottom of the spool and see how much travel you have then. Pay particular attention to the spring, and hardware when removing the cap. It should be attached to the end of the spool.

Please do all this with the boom on the ground or supported and engine not running.

 

[fried1765]

Your idea seems good. But, since the swing works when its hoses are attached to a different control valve, it seems to me that it is that one valve only. The levers seem ok. Thanks for the thought.

TG

Seems as thought you actually will work this out, through the process of elimination.

 

[Henro]

If I remember right, the issue is the boom will not swing in one direction, the direction that it would be caused to move if the spool in the control valve was pushed in by the control lever mechanism.

I think from reading previous posts, that TG feels that the spool needs to be pushed into the control valve in order to get the motion desired, and that apparently this does not happen.

So the question turns into "is this movement not happening due to a problem with the linkage of the control lever, which is preventing it from pushing the spool in the desired direction, or is it a problem with the spool within the control valve itself?"

Being a simple guy, what I would probably do is disconnect the control lever linkage, and stand to the side, and push the spool into the valve with something like a piece of wood on the top of the stem, and see if it went in or not, with the tractor running, or even better with the tractor not running.

IF the spool goes in, then it likely is a linkage problem related to the control lever. If the spool does not go in, likely NOT a linkage problem.

Lots of good advice posted above. Personally I like to be kinda sure of which direction I should head in order to reduce my time effort in problem solution.

edited in response to fried1765’s comment below. (Red face here)

 

[fried1765]

If I remember right, the issue is the boom will not swing in one direction, the direction that it would be caused to move if the spool in the control valve was pushed in by the control lever mechanism.

I think from reading previous posts, that TG feels that the spool needs to be pushed into the control valve in order to get the motion desired, and that apparently this does not happen.

So the question turns into "is this movement not happening due to a problem with the linkage of the control lever, which is preventing it from pushing the spool in the desired direction, or is it a problem with the spool within the control valve itself?"

Being a simple guy, what I would probably do is disconnect the control lever linkage, and stand to the side, and push the spool into the valve with something like a piece of wood on the top of the stem, and see if it went in or not, with the tractor running, or even better with the tractor not running.

IF the spool goes in, then it likely is a linkage problem related to the control lever. If the spool does not go in, likely a linkage problem.

Lots of good advice posted above. Personally I like to be kinda sure of which direction I should head in order to reduce my time effort in problem solution.

"If the spool goes in, then it likely is a linkage problem".

"If the spool does not go in, likely a linkage problem"

So....in either situation, it is "likely a linkage problem" ????
I do not understand how this could be!