B3350 DPF Bypass

[GeoHorn]

This thread and others like it remind me of why it took over none months to seek out a low hour pre emission tier IV tractor. Also the same could be said for my diesel truck. I sure hope you get your issues worked out under warranty. Dealing with vehicles you can't fix with a manual, wrench and common sense really sucks anymore. Damn I miss the simple good old days.

Don’t recall where I got it…but on the kitchen ‘fridge is a magnet that says:

”If you think you’re smarter than the Previous Generation…
50 years ago the Owners Manual for a car told you
How to Adjust the Valves.
The Manuals of todays Cars
Warn you not to drink the battery fluid.”

 

[GreensvilleJay]

MZ..
be SURE to get a COPY of what work WAS done, as well as parts !!

Say you take the tractor to another dealer...he may,or may not, have access to the other dealers records for what was done.
Maybe you sell it, the next owner should be told, in writing,what was done..

 

[SDT]

MZ..
be SURE to get a COPY of what work WAS done, as well as parts !!

Say you take the tractor to another dealer...he may,or may not, have access to the other dealers records for what was done.
Maybe you sell it, the next owner should be told, in writing,what was done..

All warranty work is recorded in Kubota's records and accessible by any franchised dealer.

SDT

 

[MOTOROLANUT]

Don’t recall where I got it…but on the kitchen ‘fridge is a magnet that says:

”If you think you’re smarter than the Previous Generation…
50 years ago the Owners Manual for a car told you
How to Adjust the Valves.
The Manuals of todays Cars
Warn you not to drink the battery fluid.”

Agreed!

 

[Bushrat]

All warranty work is recorded in Kubota's records and accessible by any franchised dealer.

SDT

Bringing my saga up to date; the regional service rep was to meet with the branch manager at the branch where my tractor was transported. I called on 27 Sept to see what was happening since this was happening on the 23rd. The branch manager reported to me that they checked all the sensors to make sure the sensors were not causing the regen failure problem. He said they confirmed the tractor sensors were are working properly. I told him I would like to have a printout of the diagnostics and a call from the regional service rep. He told me the regional guy only communicates directly with the dealers, not end users, but he would call and ask. I never heard from him. The branch manager called yesterday morning and told me the regional guy went back to the branch where my tractor was and worked with the technicians and were able to "get it hot enough" to perform a successful regeneration! I questioned him regarding the Kubota protocol for this problem as referenced by whitetiger on this forum, and he basically said "you won't find the procedure we did on a Kubota document". He said that I would only be responsible for the labor. Just this morning I got a call from the local branch which got my tractor back. The branch manager is gone until Monday afternoon. They said the invoice reflects 9 hours of labor at $110 per hour, but they discounted my bill to $906. I told the local branch guy that I still have not seen or heard any documentation to back up their weaseling out of the warranty. I am about at the point I would call and propose splitting that with them, because I need my tractor back now. Paying out $906 just feels WRONG!

 

[Bmyers]

Here lies one of the challenges, you may or may not have a case under the Magnuson-Moss Act. Yet, it will most likely cost you several hundred dollars just to get a lawyer to review the case and see if you meet the Act requirements.

Then if you do have a case, you still have all your time and effort that you have tied up in the matter., which the lawyer fees can be reimbursed (if you win), but I don't believe your time is under the act (I'm not a lawyer, so you would have to ask one).

The other option, if you feel you are being mistreated by the company and they are failing to meet the Act, then you could file a complaint against them with the FTC and see if they would take up action. Yet remember the FTC/FCC have neither done a good job with telemarketers, so I wouldn't get my hopes up to high.

Here is a link to a brief guide about the Act.
Businessperson's Guide to Federal Warranty Law | Federal Trade Commission (ftc.gov)

 

[Bushrat]

Here lies one of the challenges, you may or may not have a case under the Magnuson-Moss Act. Yet, it will most likely cost you several hundred dollars just to get a lawyer to review the case and see if you meet the Act requirements.

Then if you do have a case, you still have all your time and effort that you have tied up in the matter., which the lawyer fees can be reimbursed (if you win), but I don't believe your time is under the act (I'm not a lawyer, so you would have to ask one).

The other option, if you feel you are being mistreated by the company and they are failing to meet the Act, then you could file a complaint against them with the FTC and see if they would take up action. Yet remember the FTC/FCC have neither done a good job with telemarketers, so I wouldn't get my hopes up to high.

Here is a link to a brief guide about the Act.
Businessperson's Guide to Federal Warranty Law | Federal Trade Commission (ftc.gov)

Thanks for that link. I am still trying to find the specific warranty extension on the emissions system. I have been on the Kubota website, but not able to find anything about it being extended to "the life of the tractor", or the transferablity of it. Any help in that area would be appreciated.

 

[SDT]

Thanks for that link. I am still trying to find the specific warranty extension on the emissions system. I have been on the Kubota website, but not able to find anything about it being extended to "the life of the tractor", or the transferablity of it. Any help in that area would be appreciated.

You will not find the warranty extension document on the Kubota website as it has not been made public, but rather, is "Confidential and Proprietary".

I have a hard copy and the document number but no electronic copy. Document number is PSB-2021-050-E.

Note: my dealer (where I have spent a great deal of money) refused to provide me with a copy of this document when I asked for it and I had to resort to other means to get my copy.

Sounds like you will need to file a complaint with Kubota Customer Satisfaction. Procedures for doing so are in your warranty documents.

I was successful doing this but it will almost certainly take more than a phone call.

Good luck.

SDT

 

[GeoHorn]

I wonder why it is that Kubota and all their ”experts” needed nine hours to figure out how to repair their own failed DPF systems…. I think they should have been able to fix it in ONE hour ….and that’s what I’d offer to pay if they deliver the tractor back to you.

I’d also give them an advance copy of the half-page article I plan to submit to the newspaper and my congressman over this episode.

 

[DaveFromMi]

Sounds like a major design problem with the emissions. No way should a Customer have to pay for Engineers to study the problem.

 

[B737]

(PSB-2021-050-E) 03/31/2021
...The reformer system components will be warranted for the lifetime of the machine. A failure with obvious and deliberate customer interference will not be warrantable.

Given the above excerpt from the service bulletin, it's frustrating to learn what a hard time they are giving @Bushrat. Because what he is describing is clearly NOT deliberate or obvious interference. It seems their coverage of the reformer is worded in such a way to support the customer.

 

[whitetiger]

were able to "get it hot enough" to perform a successful regeneration!

Ask the dealer to see PSB-2021-050-E-R1: B/ZD/F-Series; V1505-T-E4 Reformer Repair Process Improvements and Reformer System Warranty Extension
The tractor coolant temperature needs to only be about 140 degrees before it can ReGen, which it should be capable of reaching while idling on your driveway. There are no SUPER SECRET actions needed.
So, do they expect you to bring your tractor to them so they can shuffle it around to different locations every time it requires a ReGen and charge you to perform some secret ritual?
The main function of the Reformer is to create the heat in the exhaust required to clean the DPF.

You need to fire this dealer and find another one.

 

[rancher1524]

Last month my B3350SU would not finish a parked regeneration. Took it to the dealer and got it back in a week with a new Diesel Particulate Filter and one new sensor. Parts around labor was covered by Kubota's lifetime warranty on the emission system.

 

[SDT]

Last month my B3350SU would not finish a parked regeneration. Took it to the dealer and got it back in a week with a new Diesel Particulate Filter and one new sensor. Parts around labor was covered by Kubota's lifetime warranty on the emission system.

Probably covered by the original 5 year emissions warranty.

The lifetime warranty covers only the reformer and things damaged by reformer malfunction.

SDT

 

[Bushrat]

Probably covered by the original 5 year emissions warranty.

The lifetime warranty covers only the reformer and things damaged by reformer malfunction.

SDT

So given that, what stops the dealer from just saying you plugged up the DPF because of the way you use your tractor and that all the sensors and reformer were working within specs (if I remember right, the DPF is just downstream of the reformer). In other words, can they claim that the reformer is not to blame for the issues and in doing that, weasel out of coverage? I have tried to get documentation from their diagnostics, so far without success. I'm pretty sure they won't be showing me any proof that the reformer may or may not been implicated in the DPF plugging.
My most recent conversation with the service manager of the regional dealerships (7) said the diagnostic report does not show specific times when a regeneration was postponed, that it could have happened before I owned it. That is not what the branch manager said. He claimed there were 4 postponements in one day. Clearly I am dealing with too many cooks. Hopefully, tomorrow will tell the tail if I can settle with them, or resort to Kubota customer service. The later avenue probably means I won't be able to get my tractor back for a while since I am not keen on writing a check for $906.

 

[whitetiger]

So given that, what stops the dealer from just saying you plugged up the DPF because of the way you use your tractor and that all the sensors and reformer were working within specs (if I remember right, the DPF is just downstream of the reformer). In other words, can they claim that the reformer is not to blame for the issues and in doing that, weasel out of coverage? I have tried to get documentation from their diagnostics, so far without success. I'm pretty sure they won't be showing me any proof that the reformer may or may not been implicated in the DPF plugging.
My most recent conversation with the service manager of the regional dealerships (7) said the diagnostic report does not show specific times when a regeneration was postponed, that it could have happened before I owned it. That is not what the branch manager said. He claimed there were 4 postponements in one day. Clearly I am dealing with too many cooks. Hopefully, tomorrow will tell the tale if I can settle with them, or resort to Kubota customer service. The later avenue probably means I won't be able to get my tractor back for a while since I am not keen on writing a check for $906.

Diagmaster does not show the date as the ECM does not have any calendar in it, so he has no way of knowing if 4 postponements we made in one day. It just shows hours of occurrence. The diagmaster Project File will show and can replay the functions monitored. I replay them all the time.
If the tractor has performed a Successful ReGen since you have owned it, it would have cleaned the DPF to 4000 ppm.

 

[Bushrat]

Diagmaster does not show the date as the ECM does not have any calendar in it, so he has no way of knowing if 4 postponements we made in one day. It just shows hours of occurrence. The diagmaster Project File will show and can replay the functions monitored. I replay them all the time.
If the tractor has performed a Successful ReGen since you have owned it, it would have cleaned the DPF to 4000 ppm.

Thanks for the reply. I've requested PSB-2021-050-E-R1: B/ZD/F-Series; V1505-T-E4 Reformer Repair Process Improvements and Reformer System Warranty Extension. No response yet. I'm still wondering if they can legitimately claim the reformer to be fine and in doing so implicate me for a plugged DPF? I may be headed into the branch in a couple hours.

 

[lugbolt]

This thread and others like it remind me of why it took over none months to seek out a low hour pre emission tier IV tractor. Also the same could be said for my diesel truck. I sure hope you get your issues worked out under warranty. Dealing with vehicles you can't fix with a manual, wrench and common sense really sucks anymore. Damn I miss the simple good old days.

and this thread reminds me why I quit working for a kubota dealer. I guess they (and y'all) can call me a quitter but you would have too. Been gone a year, don't miss it, only miss the coworkers I had--which some of them left too.

The challenges are many. There's always a solution but sometimes it takes a lot of digging.

So someone mentioned legal system. Ask this. What is less expensive, paying the bill and getting your stuff out of hawk, or potentially fighting a giant company who very likely has very good attorneys? And with that, it can take YEARS for the system to work. If dealer charges storage fees, that'll add up quickly. Been through it, not with kubota though. The manufacturer is "almost" always favored when the case is closed. With that said (and I tend to see all sides), if you could gather enough people's issues with these tractors, perhaps you could get something doing, which might work in your favor. Dunno. I'm not a legal expert. That is what attorneys are for and I have a dislike for attorneys.

 

[Bushrat]

and this thread reminds me why I quit working for a kubota dealer. I guess they (and y'all) can call me a quitter but you would have too. Been gone a year, don't miss it, only miss the coworkers I had--which some of them left too.

The challenges are many. There's always a solution but sometimes it takes a lot of digging.

So someone mentioned legal system. Ask this. What is less expensive, paying the bill and getting your stuff out of hawk, or potentially fighting a giant company who very likely has very good attorneys? And with that, it can take YEARS for the system to work. If dealer charges storage fees, that'll add up quickly. Been through it, not with kubota though. The manufacturer is "almost" always favored when the case is closed. With that said (and I tend to see all sides), if you could gather enough people's issues with these tractors, perhaps you could get something doing, which might work in your favor. Dunno. I'm not a legal expert. That is what attorneys are for and I have a dislike for attorneys.

Wow, I was sure hoping to avoid an attorney. The manager I have been dealing with was supposed to be in today and call me, but he did not. I am hoping to meet him face to face tomorrow. I would feel a lot more confident if I could get my hands on a copy of the warranty extension document, but I will try to get by with the excerpt referenced above.

 

[SDT]

Wow, I was sure hoping to avoid an attorney. The manager I have been dealing with was supposed to be in today and call me, but he did not. I am hoping to meet him face to face tomorrow. I would feel a lot more confident if I could get my hands on a copy of the warranty extension document, but I will try to get by with the excerpt referenced above.

See page 3 of this thread for a PDF of the warranty document.

SDT