B2650 using SnowBlower Black Smoke!!

[NEPA Guy]

Its 22 degrees outside. I was actually looking forward to using the snowblower today after using the blade the last few storms we had. I was just about done with the drive and just as I was approaching my garage, TONS of black smoke came billowing out of the tailpipe!

I slowed it down and shut it off to take a look and I saw that the entire front end was covered in snow. I opened the hood there was snow all over the engine.

I know that from my poor experience with the 3350 that they want you to remove the front air intake tube because it was interfering with the DPF filter's temperature. It wasn't hot enough. I know that they were going to install a "snow skirt" as one of their fixes.

Thats when I decided to take a closer look at the air filter. JAMMED with snow!

I took off the air tube and replaced both inner and outer air filters. When I looked in the tube it appeared dry. My concern is that water got in there. I don't know what black smoke means. Will it be OK after I let things dry out a bit? I started it up again and it turned over no problem. Does it need to be looked at?

I had a heater installed in the garage so I turned it up to dry things off a bit.

The screen and the radiator was jammed with snow too. I had to wait for the snow to melt before I could remove the screen, it was froze solid. I think I want that snow skirt installed after this happened.

What do you guys think?

 

[sheepfarmer]

Wow! I am about to launch myself outside to blow snow so I'll keep an eye on mine. Knowing about the problem I asked one dealer what to do, and it was tuck air intake down behind radiator. I noticed the first time I used mine that the whole front screen of the tractor clogged up with snow so the next time I put a clear plastic bag over the brush guard and zip tied it in place and that helped. What is a snow skirt?

 

[bucktail]

You want to keep the snow out of there. You can damage your engine if the filter gets plugged too badly. A good rotary precleaner would help a lot if you can find one the right size for your engine and find the room for it. Back in the day, we used panty hose over the filter housing on blower tractors not so equipped. You need to keep an eye on the panty hose so that they don't clog too. You're radiator screen could cause problems too.

 

[NEPA Guy]

Thanks bucktail.

Sheep,

Its called a cold weather kit, or a snow skirt. It attaches to the front of the grill with magnets. That's all I know I learned about it as one of the campaign bulletins for the 3350.

I just got off the phone with messicks and they never heard of one. I called my local dealer and he's looking into it for me.

Ok and he just called me back. It's $332 for the kit.

Even if I remove the air intake tube, as it was suggested for the DPF issue, snow is still getting in the engine bay causing a potential freeze up on and around the radiator. I'm no mechanic but if it freezes and not enough airflow gets to that radiator I'm sure the engine would overheat, and how much would that cost to fix?

Personally, I think Kubota should take care of this issue. I'm already out $70 in air filters and lucky for me I konked out in front of my garage, not a half mile away!

 

[85Hokie]

All that black smoke is coming from lack of good ol air!!!! Imagine the black smoke you would spew out if you could not breathe !!!! Ok - kidding.

It really will make short life of an engine not having proper air to ignite with the diesel.

Any way to "create" a snow skirt without breaking the bank ????

That looks like the inside of a Heat-pump that has frozen over !!!!

Would it be possible to have some sort of electronic heat strips that could be activated just enough to keep the ice forming over the radiator screen?? Something that could be turned on and off during tractor operation, yet left in place for the summer?

 

[NEPA Guy]

OK so I doubt the lack of air for those few seconds created any major damage.
Thats good to know. I was afraid some snow/water go tin the engine to make that black smoke. I swapped out the air filters and wiped down the casing so I should be fine. I'll let it sit in the heated garage until it dries out.

I doubt the "fix" should be hard to apply. I'll rig a sheet of plastic or wood to block some of the heavier snow from entering until I can come up with a better solution.

What happens with cars and trucks to avoid the snow in the engine, or freezing up the radiator? Can the same theory be applied to tractors? Is aerodynamics a factor or is it simply by design, or lack thereof, that snow can get into the engine bay? What about rerouting the air intake tube so it points backwards instead of tucking it behind the radiator that could potentially allow snow inside?

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

If any water got into the system it would have already done the damage.
doesn't sound like that happened.
If you can feasibly pipe the intake to as new location that would be the best, like to the rear of the unit.

 

[Tooljunkie]

Snowmobilers deal with snow issues constantly, especially the tweakers,tuned exhaust,gutted air boxes and jetting to the lean side of safe operation.
They use a fine mesh cloth on air intake that wont let snow/water through.

Its something like nylon,almost like a silk sheet.

Many guys tarp entire front end of tractor with canvas,carpet or whatever is handy to keep snow out of engine bay. Not likely it would overheat in winter.

Semi trucks up here used to use belly tarps along with winter fronts to help with engine heat and to keep snow out.

I run a winter front on my pickup,keeps snow out.

One buddy would get his snowmobile all dialed in say "she's a weapon now!"
My reply was "yup,a grenade"

 

[NEPA Guy]

NIW, what would be the signs of water getting in? How would I k ow if damage was done?

Ill look for the mesh. At the least I'd like to cover the hole when took off the air intake pipe.

What if I just put a 90 on the hole so it points down towards the engine? Bad idea? Debris? Too hot?

I guess the best plan would be to drill a hole through the plastic grating and run a snorkel...

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

NIW, what would be the signs of water getting in? How would I know if damage was done?

#1 Would be it wouldn't run because the connecting rods would be bent from it hydo locking.
#2 Would be a lot of noise from the engine, as parts would be bent or broken.
#3 If it starts to blow blue smoke the it has either scared the cylinder walls or has broken the lands on the piston, causing it to dump oil.

Black smoke is not a bad thing, it just was running too rich, won't hurt anything short term.
Keep an eye on it but most likely nothing happened, as a small amount of water would just be vaporized and burned!

 

[NEPA Guy]

Thanks for the info!

Hey look, my first mod! I think I'm starting g to get used to owning a tractor!

 

[asgard]

Nice, even branded, but you couldn't find Orange card. Come on.

I asked my dealer before I bought the unit about the alternative intake, he thought it unlikely snow would get in - it appears he was wrong.

I think I will be making a front deflector just in case, thanks for the real life update.

 

[Grouse09]

Thanks NEPA. I will keep an eye on mine.

I have an ice scraper with a plastic scraper on one end and a brush on the other. I use the brush on the grill and hood after every use (22 blows this Winter so far). I am careful to blow WITH the wind so as not to clog things up in the engine compartment.

Now I know why I do this. I will be watching. My tractor has been plugged in for the last hour or so. It is time to go clean up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[NEPA Guy]

Nice, even branded, but you couldn't find Orange card. Come on.

LOL



asgard, Is there an alternative air intake for sale by kubota?

Well, it started up well enough, no blue smoke thank god, , although I did hear what I thought was some clicking in the engine just before I turned it off, seems ok I guess. I ran it with only about 2 inches of snow on the ground, it wasn't as windy as before, my cardboard rig helped but it wasn't good enough, I need more of a scoop all around, winds were blowing the snow left an right and some snow was just dropping on top.

I hope this cold weather kit comes through. I'll post piks if it does.

Could a mechanic check easily enough if there was any damage,? Maybe I could ask em next time I have it in the shop.

Thanks for the help everyone

 

[sheepfarmer]

Just finished and the plastic bag on the brush guard worked fine. The air intake in its usual spot was dry. The front of the battery was a little wet, the front grill had some ice on it, and there was a little ice on the first removable screen, not sure if it is in front of a fuel cooler or the ac radiator. Wouldn't think this engine would have a fuel cooler. Hmm more reading to do. Temp was normal.

Something a little bigger would be better, along the lines of the expanded metal brush guards some of the guys have made. But free is good, farms always have baling twine and bedding sacks etc.

 

[RCW]

View attachment 27080 Thanks for the info!

Hey look, my first mod! I think I'm starting g to get used to owning a tractor!

Hey that's cool, but see it wasn't enough.

I don't think I've seen anywhere near that much snow on/in the hood or filter of my BX. Air intake is left side, not far from the dash, just forward of the radiator which is behind the engine.

Were you blowing into the wind?

Us guys without cabs know not to do that...

I really doubt if there was any damage in the short time it blew black smoke. It was starved for air, and ran rich as Hokie and Wolfman said.

If you see any diesel working REALLY hard, they blow black smoke. Difference with your situation was plugged air filter.

Really doubt there was enough moisture to worry about in a short time.

Very nice tractor!

 

[Dave_eng]

I am not suggesting this but fyi the walk behind snowblowers I have worked on over many years run without an air filter just because of these problems.

My 75 HP mercury two stroke outboard motor was designed to run without any air filters.

The diesel engine will be lasting many times longer than a walk behind snow blower engine and a 2 stroke outboard and for that reason alone may need filtering. I have never read a technical explanation on why these two types of engines don't have air filters.

I would be wrapping my snow blowing tractor engine and rad with tarp(s) to close all air except that which can come from under the engine.

I have had good luck doing that although as the temp warms you have to be monitoring the cooling system temp and open up more air flow as needed.

Old Volvo P544's had a window shade screen in front of the rad and a light chain running from the shade back into the passenger compartment. If it was very cold and snowy you pulled the chain and the blind came up to block air flow through the rad and into the engine compartment. As the snow decreased or the temp climbed you gradually released the chain and a spring wound the blind back up. Something similar could be made to work on most engines provided there was room in front of the rad.

Dave M7040

 

[ItBmine]

Seen it happen all kinds of times with all size equipment, even my F350 Powerstroke while plowing powder. Like everyone else has said, the black smoke was only due to the lack of air and over fueling.

In the short time you did it, you never hurt anything. I wouldn't worry.

 

[sheepfarmer]

Hmm before I pay that much for a snow skirt, I think I'll look for one of those protective table cloths, they're waterproof on one side and a soft material on the other side, the really old fasioned ones were called oil cloth. Anyway one could be cut to an appropriate shape without raveling and could be held on with magnets. The soft stuff is designed to not scratch tables so shouldn't damage finish on hood. There are stores around that make custom things like boat covers out of canvas, they might make a more permanent fix for less than $350.

Thanks bucktail.

Sheep,

Its called a cold weather kit, or a snow skirt. It attaches to the front of the grill with magnets. That's all I know I learned about it as one of the campaign bulletins for the 3350.

I just got off the phone with messicks and they never heard of one. I called my local dealer and he's looking into it for me.

Ok and he just called me back. It's $332 for the kit.

Even if I remove the air intake tube, as it was suggested for the DPF issue, snow is still getting in the engine bay causing a potential freeze up on and around the radiator. I'm no mechanic but if it freezes and not enough airflow gets to that radiator I'm sure the engine would overheat, and how much would that cost to fix?

Personally, I think Kubota should take care of this issue. I'm already out $70 in air filters and lucky for me I konked out in front of my garage, not a half mile away!

 

[sheepfarmer]

Hudson, those are nice snaps and also a nice looking big truck!

My pickup has a bra in two pieces but it is a PITA to get it on, metal clips. The good news is the tractor doesn't go 70 on the fwy so doesn't need to be as tight.

My hood is metal, either that or it's the heaviest darn plastic I ever met. Design gives all the mechanical advantage to the tractor, I can just barely lift it, unlike the one on the much bigger 3560. Some of the other parts nearby are plastic though.