Anyone try these (BX tractor upgrade)?

[TheOldHokie]

I thought they had 1.75" cylinders already. How would the additional lift weight come if not going larger bore?

This is all about increasing the cylinder bore. The LA344(S) has 40mm (1.57)" lift cylinders.

 

[WI_Hedgehog]

No. The lift force increases because the cross sectional piston area of the lift cylinders is greater. The piston area of the bucket cylinders is not changed so no change to dump and curl force.

If you want to limit lift force you would need four port reliefs - cost just went way up. It would be cheaper to cut down the 1.75" cylinders I linked.

Dan

Right right, I'm saying we should also discuss the curl cylinder as it's as "under-powered" as the lift cylinders. If you have more lift on the BX you're going to want more curl...

 

[DustyRusty]

I dont think there is any doubt they do what the seller claims. The issue in the older discussion was could you accomplish the same thing for half the price. I still say yes.

Dan

You can add larger cylinders for $300. Lot less expensive experiment.

Dan

Can you show us where we can get the sale cylinders for 50% less that will work without any modifications?

 

[Bearcatrp]

Tempting but don't think its a good idea. If I need more travel, I will upgrade to a B or larger. Safer IMO.

 

[Trimley]

This is all about increasing the cylinder bore. The LA344(S) has 40mm (1.57)" lift cylinders.

Here are the measurements requested.

LIFT CYLINDERS - Stock
LA340 / BX23S (2023)
Shaft Bore = 1"
Stroke = 12.8"
Cylinder Diameter = 1-13/16"
OAL Compressed = 22-5/8"
Center-to-Center
Pin-to-Pin Compressed = 20-5/8"
Pin-to-Pin Extended = 33-3/8"
Center
Front Fitting Port = 3-1/2" From front, BACK
Back Fitting Port = 1-15/16" From rear, FWD

 

[TheOldHokie]

Can you show us where we can get the sale cylinders for 50% less that will work without any modifications?

Cam you tell me the retracted and extended length of the PRO340 cylinders? That would help me find an equivalent.

These should fit without modification - $382 delivered to your door. You would get increased height and a 70% increase in lifting power and you would have to exercise good judgement when lifting heavy loads.

2 bore x 12 stroke hydraulic cylinder, welded cross tube double acting cylinder | Magister Hydraulics

2" bore x 12" stroke cross tube hydraulic cylinder 3500 PSI. Heavy-duty hydraulics, 2-year warranty, free ground Continental US shipping. Magister cylinders manufactured using steel piston and steel threaded gland with wear rings for long life. Welded cross tube ends, honed cold-drawn tubing...

www.magisterhyd.com

These are the same bore as the HPBX300 cylinders so you get the same 37% increase in lifting power. Cost is $363 delivered to your door. But the rod ends are about 6" too long. Give them to a welder and ask to cut 6*. Of the rod end. Should not cost much and you will be close to having a clone of the HPBX300 cylinders for about $500.

1.75 bore x 14 stroke hydraulic cylinder, welded loader double acting cylinder | Magister Hydraulics

1.75" bore x 14" stroke loader hydraulic cylinder 3500 PSI. Heavy-duty hydraulics, 2-year warranty, free ground Continental US shipping. Magister cylinders manufactured using steel piston and steel threaded gland with wear rings for excellent performance. Welded cross tube ends, honed cold-drawn...

www.magisterhyd.com

Get me the dimensions of your HPBX300 cylinders and I will see if I can get closer. A picture or two would also be helpful.

Dan

 

[Trimley]

Cam you tell me the retracted and extended length of the PRO340 cylinders? That would help me find an equivalent.

These should fit without modification - $382 delivered to your door. You would get increased height and a 70% increase in lifting power and you would have to exercise good judgement when lifting heavy loads.

2 bore x 12 stroke hydraulic cylinder, welded cross tube double acting cylinder | Magister Hydraulics

2" bore x 12" stroke cross tube hydraulic cylinder 3500 PSI. Heavy-duty hydraulics, 2-year warranty, free ground Continental US shipping. Magister cylinders manufactured using steel piston and steel threaded gland with wear rings for long life. Welded cross tube ends, honed cold-drawn tubing...

www.magisterhyd.com

These are the same bore as the PRO340 cylinders so you get the same 37% increase in lifting power. Cost is $363 delivered to your door. But the rod ends are about 6" too long. Give them to a welder and ask to cut 6*. Of the rod end. Should not cost much and you will be close to having a clone of the PRO340 cylinders for about $500.

1.75 bore x 14 stroke hydraulic cylinder, welded loader double acting cylinder | Magister Hydraulics

1.75" bore x 14" stroke loader hydraulic cylinder 3500 PSI. Heavy-duty hydraulics, 2-year warranty, free ground Continental US shipping. Magister cylinders manufactured using steel piston and steel threaded gland with wear rings for excellent performance. Welded cross tube ends, honed cold-drawn...

www.magisterhyd.com

Get me the dimensions of your PRO340 cylinders and I will see if I can get closer. A picture or two would also be helpful.

Dan

I done did that for you.
See my previous post.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

FWIW ...Quik look, Princess Auto have some 2" x 14" cylinders for $170 a piece, so $340 CDN

 

[TheOldHokie]

I done did that for you.
See my previous post.

Thank you - thats helpful. But what I need is that info for the HPBX300 cylinders and to date thats still a mystery.

According to the website "the barrel is 1.5" longer". So using your measurements that makes retracted length 22". The remaining question is what is the stroke?

Dan

 

[Trimley]

Thank you - thats helpful. But what I need is that info for the PRO340 cylinders and to date thats still a mystery.

According to the website "the barrel is 1.5" longer". So using your measurements that makes retracted length 22". The remaining question is what is the stroke?

Dan

Added Stroke to above data I posted previously.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

hmm... 33-5/8 - 20-5/8 = 13" , using old skool math
I wonder how someone gets 15-1/4" stroke from that ?

 

[WI_Hedgehog]

Here are the measurements requested.

LIFT CYLINDERS - Stock
LA340 / BX23S (2023)
Shaft Bore = 1"
Stroke = 15-1/4" Center of pin
Cylinder Diameter = 1-13/16"
OAL Compressed = 22-5/8"
Center-to-Center
Pin-to-Pin Compressed = 20-5/8"
Pin-to-Pin Extended = 33-3/8"
Center
Front Fitting Port = 3-1/2" From front, BACK
Back Fitting Port = 1-15/16" From rear, FWD

33-3/8" - 20-5/8" = 12-3/4" <- shouldn't that be the stroke? If so it's not matching 15-1/4" above.

 

[Trimley]

33-3/8" - 20-5/8" = 12-3/4" <- shouldn't that be the stroke? If so it's not matching 15-1/4" above.

I may not have measured correctly. My measurement was @ fully extended (end of bore cap) to center of pin.

I would gladly speak to Dan on the phone for a more clear understanding of specifics!

 

[TheOldHokie]

I may not have measured correctly. My measurement was @ fully extended (end of bore cap) to center of pin.

The LA340 WSM manual says stroke = 12.8". Still dont know what it is on the HPBX300

Dan

 

[Trimley]

The LA340 WSM manual says stroke = 12.8".

Dan

Thanks. I'll update my info.

 

[Trimley]

Still dont know what it is on the HPBX300

Dan

I'll see what I can find out. It may take some time.

Here's a HydrosPlus comparison on the BX23S

 

[TheOldHokie]

I'll see what I can find out. It may take some time.

Here's a HydrosPlus comparison on the BX23S

View attachment 140102

What we see there is the retracted length on the HPBX300 cylinder is roughly 2" longer than OEM. Right off the bat we know that increases bucket height in BOTH the raised AND the lowered position.

In other words if we now use the loader to lift the front wheels off the ground they wont go as high but we can load a taller truck. That is not surprising because there is no free lunch. We are stealing from Peter to pay Paul

Now to actual cylinder specifications. the website says barrel length is increased 1.5". If the stroke is increased by the same amount as barrel length the extended length is increased by twice that amount. Using your OEM dimensions simple arithmetic yields:

HPBX300 DIMENSIONS

Retracted length: 22.1"
Stroke: 13.8"
Extended length: 35.9"

For all practical purposes thats a cylinder with 1.75 bore, 22" retracted length, and 14" stroke.

Dan

 

[Trimley]

What we see there is the retracted length on the HPBX300 cylinder is roughly 2" longer than OEM. Right off the bat we know that increases bucket height in BOTH the raised AND the lowered position.

In other words if we now use the loader to lift the front wheels off the ground they wont go as high but we can load a taller truck. That is not surprising because there is no free lunch. We are stealing from Peter to pay Paul

Now to actual cylinder specifications. the website says barrel length is increased 1.5". If the stroke is increased by the same amount as barrel length the extended length is increased by twice that amount. Using your OEM dimensions simple arithmetic yields:

HPBX300 DIMENSIONS

Retracted length: 22.1"
Stroke: 13.8"
Extended length: 35.9"

For all practical purposes thats a cylinder with 1.75 bore, 22" retracted length, and 14" stroke.

Dan

Yes. Very, very close.
I have a consumer I'm working with.
More to follow.

 

[WI_Hedgehog]

What we see there is the retracted length on the HPBX300 cylinder is roughly 2" longer than OEM. Right off the bat we know that increases bucket height in BOTH the raised AND the lowered position.

In other words if we now use the loader to lift the front wheels off the ground they wont go as high but we can load a taller truck. That is not surprising because there is no free lunch. We are stealing from Peter to pay Paul

The retracted over-all length eye-to-eye is the same. The Kubota cylinder leaves 1.5" of rod unused (likely for safety), the aftermarket cylinder is 1.5" longer and takes advantage of the otherwise unused rod length. The aftermarket stroke is therefore 1.5" longer resulting in 11-3/4" additional lift height. Since the retracted length is the same there is no loss of negative bucket height and therefore the front of the tractor can be lifted off the ground the same amount.

The downsides are there should be 35% more lifting ability but [due to friction?] some is lost and there's "only" 32% more lift according to the videos I've seen, and lift speed should be 35% slower due to the larger cylinder and timed results seem to show 37% slower. In my guestimation since both figures are within 3% it could be partially due to observational error, but even if accurate is less than what's noticeable. (I've found less than 10% change is "generally unnoticeable" in casual observation of most things.)

I'd also guess 35% is about the most the lift force should be increased by, more than that will likely eventually result in the user doing something to cause structural deformation.

 

[TheOldHokie]

The retracted over-all length eye-to-eye is the same. The Kubota cylinder leaves 1.5" of rod unused (likely for safety), the aftermarket cylinder is 1.5" longer and takes advantage of the otherwise unused rod length. The aftermarket stroke is therefore 1.5" longer resulting in 11-3/4" additional lift height. Since the retracted length is the same there is no loss of negative bucket height and therefore the front of the tractor can be lifted off the ground the same amount.

The downsides are there should be 35% more lifting ability but [due to friction?] some is lost and there's "only" 32% more lift according to the videos I've seen, and lift speed should be 35% slower due to the larger cylinder and timed results seem to show 37% slower. In my guestimation since both figures are within 3% it could be partially due to observational error, but even if accurate is less than what's noticeable. (I've found less than 10% change is "generally unnoticeable" in casual observation of most things.)

I'd also guess 35% is about the most the lift force should be increased by, more than that will likely eventually result in the user doing something to cause structural deformation.

I dont think that picture is taken with the front wheels off the ground but from that angle you cant tell.

Buy lets assume they are anx he has done what you think.

HPBX300 DIMENSIONS

Retracted length = 20"
Stroke = 13.8"
Extended length = 33.8"

I dont need to measure cycle time I can compute it. For a fixed flow rate it is proportional to volume. Since he increased volume 37% the cycle time will increase by 37%. Thats simple arithmetic.

EDIT

The OEM cylinders are actually 40mm bore = 1.58". Redoing the lift force arithmetic using that number gives ypu a 25% increase in lift force with a 1.75" cylinder and 61% increase with a 2" cylinder.

Dan