2003 Silverado Duramax injectors

[sheepfarmer]

Well I think I should give up on trekking off to Detroit so often, and I should be thanking more lucky stars, but my trusty truck just shut off out of a clear blue right AFTER I pulled off the freeway onto Telegraph. No steering and I was in the middle of 5 lanes one way. The good news is I could coast far enough across the lanes to turn into a parking lot and pull over out of the way in a safe place. No car repair place would look at it until tomorrow, so $350 tow bill got me back near home. That too is good news, down there if they tow you off a freeway he said they charge $1,000 to start!

The only symptom was the red battery light was on, and it cranked fine, but wouldn't start. When the tech up here looked at it with the computer he said to start with change the fuel filter, (when in doubt change the fuel filter)and after he did that he came back and said he recommended 8 new injectors. When I said all 8!!!! He said that the injectors on that truck were a bad batch, and GM had extended the warranty on them to 200,000 miles or 7 years. He said he'd narrowed it down to two, but the labor was so bad to get them out that at the least I should change all of them on one bank. It was pulling way too high a vacuum on the fuel line and the filter couldn't keep up or something to that effect. He asked me how long it had been smoking and I said it hadn't been as far as I knew. He looks and sounds bright, and this is not the outfit that wanted to remodel the front end for 5k, but still I wouldn't put it past them to look for an expensive fix. I asked about rebuilding them and they said there was no one around here that could do it. We are looking at $3500 .

So what I was wondering does anyone know if that bit about the 2003 GM injectors being bad is true?

 

[ggreene3]

The truth is that LB7 duramax (01- early 04) injectors are very prone to going bad, and are a major pain the ass to change. You can go on duramaxforum and read for days about early duramax injector problems


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[North Idaho Wolfman]

I recommend to anyone with older, non warranty vehicles is get AAA plus, saves a ton on tow bills, I've had to have at least one Vehicle towed just about every year, and considering the bills can easily run several hundred per tow and AAA fee is by far cheaper!

Is the truck over the 200,000 mark?
Contact the dealer to find out about warranty!

Did he give you the balance #'s, that prove that the injectors are bad?

Replace all of them if one is bad!
Use new Bosch injectors.
Also replace the injector fuel lines, as they can recontaminate the new injectors with rust particles.

 

[sheepfarmer]

I recommend to anyone with older, non warranty vehicles is get AAA plus, saves a ton on tow bills, I've had to have at least one Vehicle towed just about every year, and considering the bills can easily run several hundred per tow and AAA fee is by far cheaper!

Yes, I should. My car insurance includes towing fees, but I bet it is only to the closest shop which was only a block away.

Is the truck over the 200,000 mark?
Contact the dealer to find out about warranty!

The truck is probably about 130,000 mi, but 13 years old. It is at the dealer I bought it from, but they lost their franchise in that big Chevrolet cutback, and so they sell used cars and still run their service dept. Not sure if they can argue with GM in my favor.I'll ask just in case, or try calling a dealer that is still franchised.


Did he give you the balance #'s, that prove that the injectors are bad?

No, he probably rightly knew I wouldn't know what they meant. He only told me the pressure numbers, 12 something instead of below 8.

Replace all of them if one is bad!
Use new Bosch injectors.
Also replace the injector fuel lines, as they can recontaminate the new injectors with rust particles.

That I can do!

Thanks NIW and thanks ggreene. Being stranded is not my idea of fun, but neither is throwing money away.

 

[RonBoyBX25D]

Unfortunately this is a common issue, had my first set at about 60k under warranty then last set about 130k out of my pocket. There is a site where you can rebuild them, and it will save you a ton. Will track down the site and post it for you.

 

[lugbolt]

I've got one of those turds at work. Duramax. Little history here, we had a '03 F250 with a 7.3, which had 109,000 miles on it. Well, the 3/4 ton wasn't really up to the task of pulling those big tractors up and down the hills, so the boss said we need to find a dually. He found a GMC Sierra 1 ton reg cab Duramax, which he picked up used for exactly what he sold the Ford for, which I think was around $8200. D-max had 99,940 miles on it at the time of purchase. We serviced it in the shop, all filters, trans fluid/filter, differential, brakes, rotors, everything. The driver was out on a service call a few months later and called saying that it was in "limp mode" (about 10 mph on the floor, according to him)-on the freeway. Anyway I had the truck tested at a local shop since we don't have the tools to do it at work. Shop tested everything and said the fuel line is bad, causing starvation-which also damaged the high pressure pump. Bill for both parts was $3100 including labor and tax. A couple weeks later, the driver calls me again-said same problem. Long story short, we had it into and out of the shop 4 times, and they cannot find anything wrong. $390 for labor to inspect, which included some gaskets, harness connector, etc. Basically they were out of ideas. Always the same code, I forget what P code it was though. I was fed up with that shop-who "specialized" in the Isuzu diesels, and I called a friend, who refused to mess with it, but recommended an individual who worked at, of all places, the Chevy dealer. So I made appointment and had it looked at. Diagnosis: 3 bad injectors. 2 on driver side, 1 on the passenger side. Recommended replacing all 8 since they're problematic. Now keep in mind this all happened before GM extended the "warranty" on injectors...AND it is considered a commercial vehicle which might play into that warranty anyway. So $8,000 comes out of our pocket. $1000 per injector including labor and everything. So now we're into this truck for more than it's worth.

I'm here to express my opinion that this kind of thing has turned me away from diesel powered pickup trucks. We're going to replace the GMC (which stands for "gotta mechanic coming"). It's the most uncomfortable truck that I've ever driven. The steering wheel is in my gut, and the seat will not move back far enough. The brakes SUCK. The transmission cant decide which gear it wants to stay in (Allison). The seats. OMG. At first you sit in it, it's pretty nice. Within 10 minutes of driving my back is hurting and the way they're made, there's no real good way to move around enough to not hurt. The rear end feels like it's going to fall out when you go over some rougher areas. Park brake doesn't hold very well. But the engine has good power and it's quiet. I personally have a 2004 Ford F350 that I pull the race car with, 6.0, with 288,000 miles on it. I bought it used with 200k. Bone stock, and maintained. It is 10x more comfortable. Has about the same power as the dmax. I like the transmission better in the Ford. It rides better. Gets about the same fuel mileage loaded and unloaded. And it's cheaper to repair and maintain for the most part. But when we replace the GMC, I think we've about decided that even after the cost of the fuel, for no more than we use it, we're going back to gas. Diesel is just too expensive, the fuel, the maintenance costs, and definitely the repair costs. You pay more when you buy it, pay more to change oil, pay more to fix it, and in the end, might only get $2000-$5000 more out of it at trade in or sale time.

Actually I have my '04 F350 sold as I really don't need a 1 ton anymore, and I'm eyebelling a '97 F250 4x4 7.5L gas that I can get for around $4000.

 

[Billdog350]

While I don't agree with lugbolt on a Ford being a "more comfortable" truck, IMO the solid front axle makes every road feel just about horrible, I do agree with his point to dump ALL diesel trucks and go with a strong gasser. FAR cheaper to maintain, FAR easier to fix, and FAR fewer problems. Plus the trucks themselves are cheaper to buy.

As far as sheepfarmer's question on the dmax injectors....I found them online pretty cheap somewhere, I think it was like $150 or less for the one bosch injector, NEW. Your cost is buried in the LABOR. Those are a complete PITA to work on. The valve covers are glued on, the allen head bolts fill with rust and strip out, the injector lines rust on to the injector, etc, etc.

If your motor is immaculate and never saw salt, you likely are better off and things will go a little smoother. That said, a knowledgeable mechanic can belt those out pretty quickly. I'm down to about 4 hrs or less to yank one bank of injectors....since I've had my truck apart a few times recently (03 duramax) to do the injector cups, head gaskets, etc. Make sure when they have it apart to do the injectors, they also make sure to remove and re-seal the injector cups with locktite "sleeve retaining compound". I did both headgaskets, ARP head bolts, and a bunch of other "upgrades" and the damn injector cups leaking ended up being the problem.....never needed to pull the heads.

Like I said...dump the diesel and grab a strong running gas motor. I hardly ever hear examples where people "love" their diesel and have no issues....except for the old Ford 7.3's which were pretty damn reliable...and I think the LLY Duramax before the emissions got real bad.

If you want/need power, throw a nice centrifugal supercharger on a gas motor and then you have more power than a diesel and STILL a cheap motor to maintain and repair.

 

[sheepfarmer]

Sorry to hear all this, this has been a reliable truck until now. 13 years with no major repairs, and never stranding me. When I bought it diesel was $1.40 per gallon and gas was $2.70 or so, but then it all switched around. I planned on it lasting me til I no longer needed a truck, but unfortunately I need it the most in the winter so everything under the hood is rusty.

 

[Billdog350]

With the liquid salt they're using these days (that should be outlawed anyway), plan on dumping your truck before its 10 years old. After that you start having brake lines, fuel lines, etc rusting through.

In the meantime, fluid film it yearly, and make sure to hit the car wash after a storm to get the salt off....

 

[adventure bob]

Cant say that I share the diesel woes but I have a Cummins. Not trying to start a who's diesel is better war, just stating that I have a different experience with my truck.
I do not take it to Chrysler, I take it to the Cummins commercial shop. I did blow a high pressure fuel pump at 210K miles. That required 6 new injectors and a high pressure pump. When the pump ate itself it threw small metal debris down the lines. The Cummins guys showed me the metal particles lodged in 2 of the injectors. They also replaced the hard lines after the pump. In their opinion, they couldn't guarantee they got all the debris out of the lines by flushing them. As the orifices on the injectors are extremely tiny, any leftover debris could be catastrophic.
Starving the injectors should not cause failure. In fact, it should throw a code for low rail pressure (P0087) long before there's anything else happening if its a fuel pump issue. sadly injectors are a wear item and they are damn expensive.

 

[armylifer]

My truck (2007 Silverado 2500 Duramax) went into limp mode once in a snow storm in Wyoming. The snow accumulated in the air filter and turned into ice, blocking all of the air intake. After I cleaned out all of the ice and started the engine it was still in limp mode. I happened to have a code reader with me and I cleared the codes and the engine got full power back. The moral of the story is that you can get an inexpensive code reader from Harbor Freight. It may be able to get your engine running again so that you can get to a safe place. It worked for me.

 

[sheepfarmer]

Update: called the service manager where my truck is this morning and said "we didn't discuss the source of tne injectors you used in your estimate, I assume they are OEM?" No he said, they are remanufactured from Florida, we have had real good luck with them. Only 1 out of 20 failed. I said I wanted new Bosch, and he said he'd have to get with his parts guy. Called back and said it would add $2,000 to the job, I said how do you get that number? And he redid the arithmetic and allowed how that wasn't quite right. I said how about getting OEM? Going to get back to me. I hung up and called the parts department at Chevy dealership and they have tnem in stock for $375 each. They ARE Bosch. Ebay has them for less but with $100 each core charge so I am thinking about the same? Good grief! It is the little old lady syndrome at work again.

 

[Tooljunkie]

Have a couple customers that arent very happy that i dont do diesel work. Tools are expensive and what sheepfarmer is going through right now doesent appeal to me. How in the world can mfr's charge so much for diesel parts?i understand tolerance,pressure and durability.BUT, they dont last. I have seen so may gas jobs nearing the 350-400,000km mark without needing anything major. 20 grand for a used diesel truck that eats another 10 grand in parts/service in short order is ludricous.

Sheepfarmer, good luck and i hope you resolve this and diagnosis was correct.

 

[skeets]

Maybe pick it up and drive to a mall someplace and drop the keys by the door before you go to the mall,,, and maybe when you come out it will be gone,,, OH GEEEE my trucks gone,,, just a thought

 

[D2Cat]

Update: called the service manager where my truck is this morning and said "we didn't discuss the source of tne injectors you used in your estimate, I assume they are OEM?" No he said, they are remanufactured from Florida, we have had real good luck with them. Only 1 out of 20 failed. I said I wanted new Bosch, and he said he'd have to get with his parts guy. Called back and said it would add $2,000 to the job, I said how do you get that number? And he redid the arithmetic and allowed how that wasn't quite right. I said how about getting OEM? Going to get back to me. I hung up and called the parts department at Chevy dealership and they have tnem in stock for $375 each. They ARE Bosch. Ebay has them for less but with $100 each core charge so I am thinking about the same? Good grief! It is the little old lady syndrome at work again.

Sheepfarmer, you know that fellow who helps you with your tractor and farm situations from time to time.... Buy him breakfast and then have him go in to the shop and visit with those boys!

Say something like, "I came to visit my sister and she said she was having trouble with her truck. What seems to be the problem? What's this going to cost? Do you think this truck is worth that kind of investment, or should we replace it?"

Ya, they're working you over with the "little old lady syndrome". The somewhat humorous part is you are more intelligent the the bunch of them! And you're two steps ahead of them.

Remember, you're the customer. You pay their bills. If they take great advantage of you, it's pretty easy to have your truck towed to a more reliable shop of a small fee!

Get some guy to go in there and clear their thinking!!

You could reduce the amount of "little old lady syndrome" treatment you receive if, when you took your vehicles in to a shop, let them think it is someone elses vehicle. "I've been using my brothers truck and this problem developed and I'd like to get it fixed for him." Then they don't know when HE might show up and they'd have to explain their "funny numbers"!

 

[Tooljunkie]

I just replaced a wheel bearing in an escape. Ford quoted 565.33 with 3.4 hours labor. Does that include a nap?? 80 minutes, including 2 road tests and wheel retorque.

Total bill was 169.50 with tax.

The also suggested control arms, transmission output seals and a timing cover gasket and water pump. Over a drop of motor oil and a drop of transmission fluid.
124,000 km's and nearly 3 grand in repairs.

Customer is a 20 something pretty blonde girl.
So its not just sweet little old ladies....

 

[skeets]

Dealers are the biggest rip offs out there

 

[D2Cat]

Well, Skeets, that's how the word dealers gets transformed to "stealers", not because of their favorite football team!

Surely not all fit that category, but too many do.

Remember you have to pay for the lot lights being on all night, the coffee and donuts the salesmen need to stay awake.

 

[sheepfarmer]

Good thing I like to learn new things although I prefer not the hard way! No chance on telling these guys it is not my truck, bought it there in 2003 before they lost the Chevrolet franchise, but they continue to operate the shop. But I'll keep that in mind and I'll see if I can't get one of the local farm guys to come with me. I am still puzzled as to how a failed injector could cause the battery light to come on and a clogged fuel filter or clogged by his diagnosis. And to have the engine go from running perfectly, good fuel economy, no smoke in exhaust that I noticed, to quitting cold.

My search to find good injectors has been interesting. The ones offered at the local Chev place, OEM, it turns out ARE remanufactured, but by GM with Bosch parts. That parts guy, who has nothing to gain or lose, did not recommend the reman parts from Florida, and said there were local shops that were better. He said the only new Bosch ones that fit that truck were marine? EBay has injectors that claim to be brand new for about the same price if you add in the core charge, but there is a change that you have to know about that happened halfway through the 2003 model, so ordering off ebay sounds scary if they don't know about checking the VIN number. My head is swimming after trying to read about all this.

 

[Doctor481]

I had a 2003 D-max that started smoking blue at about 140k miles, local dealer replaced all injectors under warranty. Somewhere in the 230k range the smoking started again. We ended up having the injectors and injector pump replaced. Dealer had quoted about $4000 and when I went to pick it up it was almost $3000 more than quoted. I went ballistic in the service managers office and told him to put all my old parts back in. He quickly adjusted the price to the quoted amount. In 2006 I bought a new D-max and let one of my guys drive the 03. At 334k I traded it on a 15 Tahoe for the wife. The 06 has 245k on it now with zero issues to date. I also bought a 14 D-max for my guy, he has 115k on it with zero issues.
I am shopping now for another D-max, we have had good service out of them.
The 03's were know for the injector issues, Chevy doubled the warranty mileage based on the problems they saw.