In search of a better truck for towing the M6060 and folding cutter.

BBFarmer

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Equipment
L3560HSTC-LE, L3301
Jul 12, 2024
99
149
33
Terry, MS
Whatever you find, just make sure you can 1000% verify the mileage.

MANY times a week we get cars & trucks, gas & diesel that the mileage has been moved on. On pretty much ALL manufactures.

Now, as techs, we can pop the hood and usually in two seconds verify that the mileage is incorrect. I know you're no spring chicken and can most certainly do the same. But im telling you, just BE CAREFUL. These bastards are slick these days.

When it comes to diesels in our shop, the bossman has the knowledge and therefore does 100% of the diag. If it comes in my bay, at that point, i'm only a parts changer.

We tend to get atleast 1 fuel system a week on the 6.7 powerstrokes. Last weeks victim:
6.7.jpg
Generally, its our farm accounts that have the most problem with these. They all run aux tanks in the bed and at some point they get a spec of dirt or water or some other bs in them and shred the injection pump. When this happens, she'll put metal through everything, even alllllll the way back to the tank.

And not being a diesel tech whatsoever, I now get ahold of the duramaxs, and moving around the fuel system you can clearly see a strong resemblance between the two. We don't get too many of the 6.6s but they do come in one a month or so.
dirtymax.jpg
I aint done or seen a 6.4 in atleast a year. We did floods of them years ago. Then they all went away lol. Ford knew they done f'ed up.
6.4.jpg
I would agree with most that cummins got it right. The engine is soild. The truck it is put in can be another story. We do a couple turbos a year on them. They're vgt style turbos and what we usually see is the unison ring seizing from carbon build up. On your own unit one can sometimes pull her down, clean her up real good, and get some more time out of it. But generally it just gets a turbo. And a few times a year we get one with a puking timing cover seal. For whatever reason, cummins decided to make the camshaft gear one with the cam therefore you have to remove the dang cam just to reseal the cover. I did learn a trick from a cummins feller that involves wooden dowels so you can leave the valvetrain where its at just pick the lifters up off the cam. Victim from 3 weeks ago:
Cummins.jpg
And of course, who could forget the good ole 6.0s. You'll hear endless amounts of bad things. But truthfully, once you get them right, they'll stay with you quite a while. I think we've fixed most in our Hinds county area therefore, we don't see too many these days. We stud em, give em the updated heads, bulletproof if you will, and they're usually good to go a while.
6.0.jpg

Good luck with your search sir.
 
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McMXi

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***Current*** M6060HDC, MX6000HSTC & GL7000 ***Sold*** MX6000HST & BX25DLB
Feb 9, 2021
5,653
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NW Montana
Good luck with your search sir.
Excellent post!

I can go to the local Kubota dealer and try out anything on the lot but that's not so easy to do with trucks and trailers. I definitely need to do more research and think this through. The lowest risk but highest cost decision is to buy a late model or new F350/F450/F550, but it'd be easy to waste $30k by buying the wrong older truck.

I really appreciate all of the feedback in this thread. Your comments and experience could very well help me make the best decision.
 
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jyoutz

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MX6000 HST open station, FEL, 6’ cutter, forks, 8’ rear blade, 7’ cultivator
Jan 14, 2019
3,170
2,205
113
Edgewood, New Mexico
Excellent post!

I can go to the local Kubota dealer and try out anything on the lot but that's not so easy to do with trucks and trailers. I definitely need to do more research and think this through. The lowest risk but highest cost decision is to buy a late model or new F350/F450/F550, but it'd be easy to waste $30k by buying the wrong older truck.

I really appreciate all of the feedback in this thread. Your comments and experience could very well help me make the best decision.
IDK about the rest of the truck, but if you buy that truck with the 5.9 Cummins, you will seldom have any engine issues and you can do all of the maintenance in 45 minutes yourself.

Edit: all of the engine maintenance in 45 minutes. IDK about the rest of the truck.
 
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Like Tractors

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Several Kubotas
Jan 1, 2020
78
103
33
Eastern Iowa
I was hoping you'd jump in. ☺ I will absolutely defer to your expertise, so if you told me that an '01 F-650 for around $28k is a bad choice I'd drop the idea yesterday! The dealer lists 205hp at 2,500rpm but I don't know if that's correct. Ford-Trucks.com has specs listed for all '01 F250 and up trucks, and they show the Cummins engine to produce 185hp @ 2,300 rpm and 420 lb-ft @ ?. I don't know if the data is accurate or not, and even if it is, gearing of the rear end and transmission have a huge affect on how a vehicle drives, and more importantly tows.

View attachment 147652
Well, that doesn't seem like a lot of horsepower or a lot of gears, unless the rear axle is a two speed axle. I haven't towed with a truck like that, I will defer to a towing expert, engines I know. One caution with that Cummins ISB engine is injection pump failures, especially if they have been subjected to low supply pressure. The turbocharger is a conventional design that employs a wastegate , pretty trouble free.

I have done towing with my 2000 F250 that measures 300 horsepower on my SuperFlo dynamometer, pulling a car hauler trailer with a 1997 F250 on the trailer from Rock Springs WY to home, that just plain walks the hills that that load like it's nobodies business. I am sort of a fan of the old 7.3L International built engine. I even have a Chevrolet version of the ole 7.3L.
 

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Botamon

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M7060HDC12, John Deere 2020 diesel
Mar 26, 2018
305
550
93
Winnemucca, Nevada
Personally, I think you'll be disappointed if you are just looking for a truck to pull a lot of weight and yet accelerate and keep up with traffic. All of the medium duty and heavy duty trucks have derated engines; they don't have the horsepower/torque of the pickup engine equivalent but will last forever. It just takes long to get all that weight up to speed. I see those heavier duty trucks holding up traffic on all our mountain passes here in Nevada. The only trucks that could pull a lot of weight and still accelerate fast enough to keep up with general traffic are purpose-built pullers like those you see at the pulling contests. 2,000+ horsepower - and the engines are good for only a few pulls!

That being said, if what you really need is a more stable towing platform then I agree with jyoutz. Find an older (preemissions) Dodge/Cummins dually with the 6 speed manual transmission, with not too many miles, that hasn't been beat up/rusted out. Pre - emissions means any of the 5.9 engines; if it has the 6.7 Cummins then it will have emissions crap on it. If you get one with the automatic transmission, you'll need to have it beefed up to handle a lot of weight and still last. Just be aware that even though these trucks are 20 years old - they are still selling for close to or as much as they sold for as new, if they have less than 200,000 miles on them. And that's because people are willing to pay those prices to not have to deal with the newer diesels with the problematic emissions.

I have a 2004 Dodge Cummins dually, 6 speed manual. ONLY repair ever done on it was to change the water pump a few years ago. It has only 78,000 miles on it but then like you, I only use it when I need to pull a load. I'll own this truck until I am too old to drive.

This load scaled at 28,000 lbs:
P1120014.rjpg.jpg


Hauling my M7060, or the big cabover camper with jeep, I never have to shift out of 6th gear on any of the mountain passes. That engine just PULLS...drama-free.
P1110623r.jpg


P1070947r.jpg
 
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McMXi

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***Current*** M6060HDC, MX6000HSTC & GL7000 ***Sold*** MX6000HST & BX25DLB
Feb 9, 2021
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NW Montana
@Like Tractors and @Botamon, thanks for your replies. So much to think about for sure.

Midwest Military Equipment are arguably the experts when it comes to the M1078, so I called Joe (owner I think) this morning to ask about towing an 18,000lb trailer and he told me that the A1 version would be more than capable since it's up around 300hp and has an exhaust brake. I have the gen 1 model which is sometimes referred to as an A0 and not as well suited to that sort of towing. The Caterpillar engine is mechanical on the A0 models with no electronics, unlike the A1 engines.

For the record, a nice M1078 A1 is around $50k.


The journey continues.
 

Like Tractors

Active member

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Several Kubotas
Jan 1, 2020
78
103
33
Eastern Iowa
@Like Tractors and @Botamon, thanks for your replies. So much to think about for sure.

Midwest Military Equipment are arguably the experts when it comes to the M1078, so I called Joe (owner I think) this morning to ask about towing an 18,000lb trailer and he told me that the A1 version would be more than capable since it's up around 300hp and has an exhaust brake. I have the gen 1 model which is sometimes referred to as an A0 and not as well suited to that sort of towing. The Caterpillar engine is mechanical on the A0 models with no electronics, unlike the A1 engines.

For the record, a nice M1078 A1 is around $50k.


The journey continues.
Now there ya go, I love it when a guy does his research by tapping the experts! Out of curiosity, which Caterpiller engine do you have in that old dog?
 
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McMXi

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***Current*** M6060HDC, MX6000HSTC & GL7000 ***Sold*** MX6000HST & BX25DLB
Feb 9, 2021
5,653
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NW Montana
Now there ya go, I love it when a guy does his research by tapping the experts! Out of curiosity, which Caterpiller engine do you have in that old dog?
My M1078 is a '98 model and has the Caterpillar 3116 inline six cylinder with turbo charger and intercooler. It's rated at 225 hp @ 2,200 rpm and 637 lb-ft @ 2,600 rpm (seems backwards). It has a 7-speed Allison 3070 automatic transmission. It's also AWD with a 30% front 70% rear distribution until it's put in 4WD mode and then it's 50% front and rear.
 

Like Tractors

Active member

Equipment
Several Kubotas
Jan 1, 2020
78
103
33
Eastern Iowa
My M1078 is a '98 model and has the Caterpillar 3116 inline six cylinder with turbo charger and intercooler. It's rated at 225 hp @ 2,200 rpm and 637 lb-ft @ 2,600 rpm (seems backwards). It has a 7-speed Allison 3070 automatic transmission.
Is that truck built by General Motors? Many moons ago, a GM friend/associate of mine told me that the 3116 will only be Original Equipment in a GM built vehicle, some agreement with Caterpiller I was told.
I have done dynamometer testing and various repairs on the Cat 3116, I will have to look up some test records to see what sort of power they put to the earth.

That transmission is a pretty tough gear box.
 
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McMXi

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Lifetime Member

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***Current*** M6060HDC, MX6000HSTC & GL7000 ***Sold*** MX6000HST & BX25DLB
Feb 9, 2021
5,653
6,842
113
NW Montana
Is that truck built by General Motors? Many moons ago, a GM friend/associate of mine told me that the 3116 will only be Original Equipment in a GM built vehicle, some agreement with Caterpiller I was told.
I have done dynamometer testing and various repairs on the Cat 3116, I will have to look up some test records to see what sort of power they put to the earth.

That transmission is a pretty tough gear box.
Made by Stewart & Stevenson Services, Inc. Here's the manufactures plate in the cab of my truck.

plate.jpg