Sidekick RTV-XG850 backfiring / loss of power

[catalyst]

Update. The dealer offered to kick in $500, but only for the full engine replacement quoted at 11k. We've requested to have the machine dropped back off, and are looking at 3.88 billable diagnostic hours.

The whole situation sucks. Kubota has completely left us out to dry and at this point, the only recourse we have is to share our story with everyone.

I will start taking pictures and documenting the repair process once I get the machine back, but we might not get started on it for a month or 2 due to competing priorities (maple syrup season). If anyone has any suggestions for a budget friendly oil analysis company, please share it.

This was worst case scenario for us.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

hmm, since Kubota Korporate shelled out several million dollars for a kid falling off an SVL he KNEW he wasn't supposed to be riding on, maybe they'll replace your RTV for free in lieu of a class action lawsuit regarding the known defective engines in their machines ??

 

[Sidekick]

Update. The dealer offered to kick in $500, but only for the full engine replacement quoted at 11k. We've requested to have the machine dropped back off, and are looking at 3.88 billable diagnostic hours.

The whole situation sucks. Kubota has completely left us out to dry and at this point, the only recourse we have is to share our story with everyone.

I will start taking pictures and documenting the repair process once I get the machine back, but we might not get started on it for a month or 2 due to competing priorities (maple syrup season). If anyone has any suggestions for a budget friendly oil analysis company, please share it.

This was worst case scenario for us.

I was wondering if that engine could be fixed and guaranteed after having the contamination. I bet they realized it wouldn't last 90 days after repair and just wanted to walk away. I am guessing Kubota knows they are not rebuildable after contamination and recommended a new engine. Probably best to see if used parts are available and then dump it once running.
I posted my oil analysis back a ways and it has the company name my dealer uses on it. I don't know the cost.
That's exactly how I feel about Kubota at this point. On another forum I shared my experience a fellow from Canada said he heard Kubota had similar issues on an utv with a Subaru engine years back and they wound up covering everything to fix or buy them back. He did not know the details or the exact model and I am trying to find more details if it was real or internet lore. Really stinks because they could have been great machines.
How many trees do you tap? I have a dozen big ones and every 3 years I spend a couple weeks boiling sap.

 

[catalyst]

hmm, since Kubota Korporate shelled out several million dollars for a kid falling off an SVL he KNEW he wasn't supposed to be riding on, maybe they'll replace your RTV for free in lieu of a class action lawsuit regarding the known defective engines in their machines ??

I was never really looking for any of that. I even tried to counter with the Kubota matching my contribution as a customer instead of the dealer, and they declined that, too. They indicated that since I was the dealer's customer, it was up to the dealer to cover a portion and they would match that portion and that this was a great feat of compromise to the customer because Kubota will not typically honor anything outside of warranty on a 2nd owner machine.

They don't seem to care about the engine failure at all, so much as they do it being a 2nd owner machine - not even the hours on that machine, or age of the machine.

Sidekick, I would sell that thing immediately and never touch another Kubota anything ever again, and we typically run 75-100 taps.

 

[Sidekick]

I was never really looking for any of that. I even tried to counter with the Kubota matching my contribution as a customer instead of the dealer, and they declined that, too. They indicated that since I was the dealer's customer, it was up to the dealer to cover a portion and they would match that portion and that this was a great feat of compromise to the customer because Kubota will not typically honor anything outside of warranty on a 2nd owner machine.

They don't seem to care about the engine failure at all, so much as they do it being a 2nd owner machine - not even the hours on that machine, or age of the machine.

Sidekick, I would sell that thing immediately and never touch another Kubota anything ever again, and we typically run 75-100 taps.

I just fired off a couple emails to the main US locations to see If anyone cares and asked to forward them to Japan because I couldn't get through by myself. Hopefully some one that cares will look into this at a higher level then the regional reps that all seem to just have a programed answer. Probably won't do anything but I will continue to search for new emails to try. Hoping to find someone at Kubota that Cares.

 

[Siesta Sundance]

In my county it's $85 to file a small claims case($10k) and it's relatively easy, more of wait game. There is a 16 page informational instructions on how-to.
Make Kubter come to you.

 

[lugbolt]

In my county it's $85 to file a small claims case($10k) and it's relatively easy, more of wait game. There is a 16 page informational instructions on how-to.
Make Kubter come to you.

yeah that part is easy

once you get a judgement in your favor, it's up to YOU to get paid. Then the "fun" starts.

Believe me, it's a pain in the neck. And the people I worked for at the time, the boss was a judge-so I had good (and 'free') legal advice from a, judge.

The legal system doesn't always work the way we'd think but I think sometimes folks should learn that on their own.

 

[Sidekick]

It looks like a replacement engine is between $5000 & $5500 depending on who you get it from. I think this may be the long block https://www.messicks.com/parts/kubota/e7153-00010

 

[mikester]

Thanks for posting the page from the manual ! Buried in the 'range shift lever' section.. wonder how many pages into the manual is is ? I'd expect the info to be in chapter 1, how to start section.
Now I'm wondering how the unit was delivered ? dealer drop off, customer pickup ? Sales guy dropped my BX23S and spent almost 2 HOURS going over this,that and more.
Seriously look into an engine swap, find other machines that have the same Subaru engine in them. so if those machines offered a diesel or an alternative gas ?
I don't know what the machine cost but IF you really love it, search the web, find another engine. If you're 'Net' savvy, post on social media, youtube, forums, etc. There has to be tons of 'RTV' related websites.

Someone needs to source a drop in diesel engine replacement with CVT clutch! I wouldn't bother with a subaru replacement.

I've never had the experience of a new vehicle/machine dealer spend any time explaining anything. I find sales persons are generally clueless about what they are selling.

 

[Siesta Sundance]

I wouldn't bother with a subaru replacement.

^this

 

[GreensvilleJay]

You might have to spend a day or two 'surfing the web' but you'll find contact info for the PREZ,CEO and board of directors for Kubota Japan. You can also find the info on the Subaru engine and possible replacements.I don't know what that RTV cost (10K ? ) but I'd do my best to get made 'whole' for sure.

 

[catalyst]

I've already contacted the state atty general. It has worked well for us in the past, but it takes a while to get that wheel moving, but in every single case, the large corporation was forced to either completely repay the repair bill, or completely redo the job.

With other users being impacted, it almost feels like class action grounds, but we seldom come out ahead in those situations - unless it does force a recall or a buyback - and who wants a buyback with inflated pricing the way it is?

If anyone has done anything like this in the past, please PM. I am a bit new to trying to take the fight to the company. I will continue sharing out story on social media, but Kubota seems to not really care.

I don't think we'll go with a different replacement. I want to repair it and knowing what I now know, we'll keep a better on running it 20+ minutes and doing more frequent oil checks/changes. I want to really see the extent of the damage.

$500 in diagnostic charges does feel a bit excessive for a compression test.

 

[Sidekick]

The only thing I am trying to find out if it applies is the NY farm equipment lemon law. Within 30 days of the warranty ending paperwork has to be filed with the attorney general. Trying to get info if it applies to off road vehicles. https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/2023-04/Farm Equipment Consumer Guide.pdf . I used the new vehicle lemon law against Chevy years ago for a defective 3/4 ton pickup and it was very easy. The date the court date was set, the regional manager of GM called me and met me the next day at the dealer with a check for the full purchase price, accessories added, and tax. They knew they would loose in court because it was in the shop for 6 months of the first year and their engineers were involved. They told me the same as Kubota, it's defective but you are stuck with it how it is. Well they ate those words in the end.

 

[Sidekick]

The only thing I am trying to find out if it applies is the NY farm equipment lemon law. Within 30 days of the warranty ending paperwork has to be filed with the attorney general. Trying to get info if it applies to off road vehicles. https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/2023-04/Farm Equipment Consumer Guide.pdf . I used the new vehicle lemon law against Chevy years ago for a defective 3/4 ton pickup and it was very easy. The date the court date was set, the regional manager of GM called me and met me the next day at the dealer with a check for the full purchase price, accessories added, and tax. They knew they would loose in court because it was in the shop for 6 months of the first year and their engineers were involved. They told me the same as Kubota, it's defective but you are stuck with it how it is. Well they ate those words in the end.

I don't think anyone at Kubota cares about problems with these machines.

One other thing that has me wondering is if this machine is any good for plowing with all the special instructions about not stop and starting it. I was told it wouldn't hurt it. The last 2 days we had 4 inches of snow each day, so I wound up plowing twice. Checked the oil level before first plow, and just checked it again today after it cooled and level went up from less then an hour total of plowing. With plowing there are many forward and reverse shifts with acceleration to get the snow rolling. It is getting really tough to shift to low now also. That means going from idle to shift to accelerating to push snow probably 50 times each storm. I had used my BX before and that the hydro controls direction so the engine always just sits humming at 2k rpm the entire time. I am starting to think these engines were not designed for a homestead UTV to handle all chores as advertised. Wonder if a hydro pump could be adapted to the engine so it could run constant speed and replace the clutch with a parker motor to drive it. The engine really is the downfall of this machine.

 

[lugbolt]

Someone needs to source a drop in diesel engine replacement with CVT clutch! I wouldn't bother with a subaru replacement.

why would you want go to slower and spend a lot more money and have to reengineer the whole thing to make that happen? Lot of work for no gain, IMO. 24hp is all you're gonna get without having to go with a DPF..

I've never had the experience of a new vehicle/machine dealer spend any time explaining anything. I find sales persons are generally clueless about what they are selling.

before the boss sold out to corporate, I (service manager) was responsible for going over the equipment with buyers. Small dealer so "most' of the time I could do it. What I noticed was that when I'm going over the equipment, most buyers are goggly-eyed at a new toy and aren't listening anyway, and those that do don't have much idea what I'm talking about anyway. I still tried. Corporation bought out the dealer and focused more on volume and dollars of income than customer service, which put the salespeople in charge of going over the equipment with the buyers--and then it became exactly as you stated. Had no idea, and half the time they would give wrong information. Good example, the yamaha wolverine 850's. Engine dipstick over yonder, transmission dipstick elsewhere. Sales guys were saying that you drain it and then fill it on the valve cover, then check it there...problem is, "there" was the transmission dipstick. Dealer ate a few engines over that until I called them all into the shop to show em how they worked (dry sump).

 

[mikester]

why would you want go to slower and spend a lot more money and have to reengineer the whole thing to make that happen? Lot of work for no gain, IMO. 24hp is all you're gonna get without having to go with a DPF..

Snowmobile engine would probably be the easiest swap. I hate using gerry cans I'd rather go diesel! My biggest complaint is my subaru engine is a real gas guzzler...

 

[GreensvilleJay]

re: One other thing that has me wondering is if this machine is any good for plowing with all the special instructions about not stop and starting it.

hmm, if Kubota sold you a Kubota plow for your Kubota, then the Kubota IS designed to use the plow ! Use it as required to get rid of the 'white'.

 

[Sidekick]

re: One other thing that has me wondering is if this machine is any good for plowing with all the special instructions about not stop and starting it.

hmm, if Kubota sold you a Kubota plow for your Kubota, then the Kubota IS designed to use the plow ! Use it as required to get rid of the 'white'.

No matter what it is used for or how hot the gauge gets it contaminates the oil. I give up. Definitely not a good machine for reliable long term homestead use. One of those run it 100 hours then dump it type machines from my experience.

 

[catalyst]

this machine is way too expensive for all of us to just write off the problem. threads like this are going to crush the resale value on these machines as Kubota has completely bailed on us.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Since it is a pricey machine, someone should post the make/model info of the Subaru engine into Google to look for 'drop in replacements'. If Subaru didn't make that unit specifically for Kubota, other 'things' may have same engine,see what those guys did to swap it out.