Sidekick RTV-XG850 backfiring / loss of power
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If you read the manual it says use low gear driving slow speeds to keep engine rpms high.
I'm sorry if there was any confusion with that - that has typically been our usage with it - low gear for low speed.
Mine has only been used in low at higher RPMs trying to get it as hot as possible. I read the manual and nowhere does it say starting the engine causes serious oil contamination. I would have never touched it if that warning was documented. Not even my dealer knew that. Kubota should have stuck to the diesel market that their engineers are familiar with, not aftermarket engines without a history.
they build them for a certain purpose. Sometimes owners use them for different purposes than for what they were originally designed. Sometimes the manufacturers don't even find out about these issues until the units have been in the field for a while. Mule is a great example. Also worth considering, "most" japanese manufacturers will keep the same exact machine on the markets forever, 5+ years (Mule has been out since 1988 and the current V-twin engine has been on the market since I think 1992 in different configurations). Americans typically (but not always...Ford Taurus...) change things up every 5 years or so.
I can tell you this. I did Kubota for 30 years. In those 30 years I went to dealer meetings and service update technical schools 24 of those 30 years, usually once a year for tech updates, and once a year for dealer meetings. Oftentimes I'd catch up with tech reps, engineers, beancounters, several times during my tenure we had the japanese engineers show up at the dealer asking about this or that--usually focusing on one or two pieces of equipment at a time. Last time, RTV500 (they were going to make the change to the RTV520). Every single time they'd take down notes as to what 'we' (dealer guys) would suggest, and those suggestions are based on both dealers' experience AND customer complaints and praises. mostly complaints because almost nobody calls and says "I love how slow this thing is". Within those meetings, very little was accomplished as far as 'our" complaints and input. It's almost as if it was a waste of my breath, my time, my experience-to even talk to them. With all that said in 2020 I left Kubota and went to a Polaris dealer. 3 times I've gone to wott (way out training tour) and all 3 times, the American engineers and such ask us what we'd like to see and what our customers are saying. They take it VERY seriously. If enough people talk about what we'd like to see, they make a change for the next year model. Sometimes it's a small change, such as the Ranger 1000XP being a little overpriced for some consumers, so they built the Ranger 1000 with a different engine-63hp vs 82hp(XP). It's also quieter running. But the price point changed dramatically. It's not "that" much different than the XP, but they were able to get the price down, such that you can get a 1000 for close to the same price as a 570. These guys actually listen and they make changes which is why Polaris owns the SxS market.
That sounds like what the mechanic on my machine mentioned. At one of the sessions they were talking about the contamination issue and there was talk the Subaru engine needed a redesigned intake system to fix it but nothing ever happened after that. I could have had a Ranger 1000 in a day and not waited 14 months to get it. I thought Kubota made better products but now know I made a big mistake going with the Sidekick and thinking that Kubota would stand behind what they sell. By Kubota not addressing this I have steered almost 20 potential buyers that I know of away between friends and my youtube channel. So sad when a company treats customers like the bad guy because they bought a defective product. Kubota does not care anymore.
Just wanted to update the thread. I asked Kubota for an update on our Case and here is the word for word reply. I have no idea what this means. We asked about repair assistance and possibly even a voucher or help on a trade / new purchase.
Why would they only match the dealer and not the customer? What if the dealer offers $2500 (full repair with match) or $0 (nothing to match).
This feels so non-standard and completely discretionary and just adds to our confusion and frustration.
"Good Morning,
I have reached out to our Kubota representative and he has stated that he's agreed to do a price match with the dealer. Therefore, any amount that the dealer provides, our representative will match theirs. Moving forward, it will be up to the dealer's choice if they would like to provide any financial assistance.
Regards,
Simon
Kubota Customer Satisfaction "
Why would they only match the dealer and not the customer? What if the dealer offers $2500 (full repair with match) or $0 (nothing to match).
This feels so non-standard and completely discretionary and just adds to our confusion and frustration.
"Good Morning,
I have reached out to our Kubota representative and he has stated that he's agreed to do a price match with the dealer. Therefore, any amount that the dealer provides, our representative will match theirs. Moving forward, it will be up to the dealer's choice if they would like to provide any financial assistance.
Regards,
Simon
Kubota Customer Satisfaction "
That sounds like how Kubota is avoiding repairing mine. They say everything must go through the dealer and then the dealer says they can't do anything without Kubota approving it. Kubota says there is nothing wrong other then short trips. The dealer returned it just like it went in and said to try and blow it up so Kubota has to do something after sitting in the shop 10 weeks. All this just doesn't make sense. I wondering if these machines need a major recall that Kubota is avoiding.
Sounds like if the dealer will give you a couple hundred off a new machine or the repair Kubota will match it. Dealer should clear that up in writing to be sure what it means. I definitely wouldn't repair that old motor and expect it to last.
GreensvilleJay
Well-known member
Equipment
BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
OK..curious... 'short trips'. Does anyone have any documentation from Kubota, as in owner's manuals..... that actually specifically warns or informs the new owner as to what 'short trips' is/means ??
Sounds like Kubota Korporate will pony up $ for $ with the dealer, so get the invoice to FIX,have dealer do the work. If it's $8000, each pays $4K.
Sounds like Kubota Korporate will pony up $ for $ with the dealer, so get the invoice to FIX,have dealer do the work. If it's $8000, each pays $4K.
The only documentation I have is the invoice supplied when the machine was returned.
It says in capital letters.
" KUBOTA STATES-MACHINE MUST REACH OPERATING TEMPERATURE/DO NOT SHORT TRIP."
I was told by the dealer it meant running at least 20 minutes each start to evaporate the fuel put in the crankcase each start. I do not know what full operating temperature means either because after 20 minutes running around my yard it is only up one box on the gauge. The exhaust still smells like raw fuel also. The gauge has a lot more boxes left to hot. My dealer told me the machine sold just west of us had the same problem with the same rep and he got the same conclusion. I have been in touch with him to verify. They refused to do anything for him so he wound up dumping it. I sent an email to the Kubota cares rep to find the documentation of short tripping they stated as the problem and let them know it was returned with contamination after the dealer ran it a couple hours hot. They did not answer as it seems the case was closed. Basically that statement seems sketchy to me and I am not the first to get it. I just can't believe this is happening, but it's not a Kubota motor and Subaru shut the line down in 2017 from what I can find leaving the problems to Kubota.
It says in capital letters.
" KUBOTA STATES-MACHINE MUST REACH OPERATING TEMPERATURE/DO NOT SHORT TRIP."
I was told by the dealer it meant running at least 20 minutes each start to evaporate the fuel put in the crankcase each start. I do not know what full operating temperature means either because after 20 minutes running around my yard it is only up one box on the gauge. The exhaust still smells like raw fuel also. The gauge has a lot more boxes left to hot. My dealer told me the machine sold just west of us had the same problem with the same rep and he got the same conclusion. I have been in touch with him to verify. They refused to do anything for him so he wound up dumping it. I sent an email to the Kubota cares rep to find the documentation of short tripping they stated as the problem and let them know it was returned with contamination after the dealer ran it a couple hours hot. They did not answer as it seems the case was closed. Basically that statement seems sketchy to me and I am not the first to get it. I just can't believe this is happening, but it's not a Kubota motor and Subaru shut the line down in 2017 from what I can find leaving the problems to Kubota.
GreensvilleJay
Well-known member
Equipment
BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
hmm.. I don't take someone 'yelling' on a repair invoice to be 'official' information...show me it IN THE MANUAL ! yer right what's 'operating temperature' ? Though that might(should ) be in the owner's manual. Still no definition of 'short trip' though I've read enough to understand 'they' probably mean you have to let the engine warm up for "20 minutes". I know lots of people who,even at -10C, hop into their rides, start and drive off. brr...poor tranny and engine..it has to be tough on them.
From reading about the Subaru engine over the internet, it sounds like they all need to be painted yellow.
Kinda curious if someone has found a 'drop in' replacement for them. I also don't understand the reluctance of Korporate Kubota not helping
From reading about the Subaru engine over the internet, it sounds like they all need to be painted yellow.
Kinda curious if someone has found a 'drop in' replacement for them. I also don't understand the reluctance of Korporate Kubota not helping
With Kubota you do not get to talk to the rep and the dealer has to relay everything. I am so sick of this this after being loyal to Kubota for so long. I just want it fixed permanently so it can be used around the homestead without worrying about how long will it last and what damage has already been done to the internal components. Hopefully others will save themselves problems if they don't have hundreds of acres to heat it up.
The dealer cited page 65 of the operator's manual with "extreme conditions". Everything is vague though. We originally went to the dealer to buy a machine and nothing was mentioned as part of the sale about short tripping and we certainly explained our intended usage.
I haven't seen any kubota or dealer videos on youtube advising not to idle these or short trip them. In fact, most of the videos are short trips! I feel like Kubota is just trying to pass the buck on a problem they know about.
Our BX 1880 is paid off next year and we were looking to move into a larger size tractor with grapple now that we have the zero turn. It was going to be a Kubota, but I dont't think it will be now, unfortunately.
I haven't seen any kubota or dealer videos on youtube advising not to idle these or short trip them. In fact, most of the videos are short trips! I feel like Kubota is just trying to pass the buck on a problem they know about.
Our BX 1880 is paid off next year and we were looking to move into a larger size tractor with grapple now that we have the zero turn. It was going to be a Kubota, but I dont't think it will be now, unfortunately.
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GreensvilleJay
Well-known member
Equipment
BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
Thanks for posting the page from the manual ! Buried in the 'range shift lever' section.. wonder how many pages into the manual is is ? I'd expect the info to be in chapter 1, how to start section.
Now I'm wondering how the unit was delivered ? dealer drop off, customer pickup ? Sales guy dropped my BX23S and spent almost 2 HOURS going over this,that and more.
Seriously look into an engine swap, find other machines that have the same Subaru engine in them. so if those machines offered a diesel or an alternative gas ?
I don't know what the machine cost but IF you really love it, search the web, find another engine. If you're 'Net' savvy, post on social media, youtube, forums, etc. There has to be tons of 'RTV' related websites.
Now I'm wondering how the unit was delivered ? dealer drop off, customer pickup ? Sales guy dropped my BX23S and spent almost 2 HOURS going over this,that and more.
Seriously look into an engine swap, find other machines that have the same Subaru engine in them. so if those machines offered a diesel or an alternative gas ?
I don't know what the machine cost but IF you really love it, search the web, find another engine. If you're 'Net' savvy, post on social media, youtube, forums, etc. There has to be tons of 'RTV' related websites.
Hey guys, many of us understand your situation, it sucks, no doubt. Many of us on here have been through similar situations through other brands, products, services, contractors or failed businesses etc. and at much bigger losses.
I agree and probably many others agree, that Kubota should take care of thier customers and do right.
I occasionally come back to this thread hoping I read something maybe positive, or response/progress from Kubota. Instead many posts in here sound (MOD EDIT) bad.
The point is, many of will stop visiting this thread and/or ignore the thread all together, and your problems will lose visibility because of your own actions.
Have a great day, and make the best of it.
I agree and probably many others agree, that Kubota should take care of thier customers and do right.
I occasionally come back to this thread hoping I read something maybe positive, or response/progress from Kubota. Instead many posts in here sound (MOD EDIT) bad.
The point is, many of will stop visiting this thread and/or ignore the thread all together, and your problems will lose visibility because of your own actions.
Have a great day, and make the best of it.
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Yes 5 to 10 minutes is what I have gone by for warm up. Start it and pull it out of the garage and let it idle. Has to be 50 feet from the garage because of the raw gas smell when sitting there. Mine usually comes up to the second bar on the gauge by then by then and I can run it around the yard all day with it staying there. That is the only instruction given at drop off. Now they have moved that up to 20 minutes saying full operating temperature (whatever that means because 2 bars seems to be mine) or it is short tripping. I know Kubota has not helped others with this issue and probably won't help us from their reply. I don't care if you stop visiting because you are not in the research stage looking for one. It's others considering this machine that I hope getting this info out there will help in making their decision so they don't have to go through this with Kubota changing the rules. This is stuff that dealers don't warn you about when buying a machine like this for a smaller 10 to 20 acre homestead. This will probably eliminate 90% of buyers looking for this type of machine. I definitely would not have bought mine if this was available before I bought mine. At this point I will say Kubota warranties are not worth the paper they are printed on if you have problems they can weasle out of.
You should ignore the thread it if you have no interest in this machine or problems in the field.
You should ignore the thread it if you have no interest in this machine or problems in the field.
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Update:
Spoke with the dealer. They are possibly willing to kick in 25% of the cost, Kubota 25%, and me 50% for a total of $2300 for the rebuild. This is going back to the boss for approval.
Kubota Customer Care hard lined that this was the best they were willing to do - price match with the dealer. This puts a dealer on the hook for a machine I did not buy from them. I did ask Kubota Customer Care if they would price match me, in the event the dealer said "No".
I was told NO. Simon from Customer Care kept pushing this all back to the regional FSM Zack. I asked for Zack's contact info and was told NO.
Kubota really put the local dealer in a bind, and it puts us in an even worse situation if the dealer indicates they can't do anything to help.
This is so frustrating. The entire rationale they cite is because we bought it from another couple (with 100 hours), there is no telling what could have been done to the machine in the 400 hours it has been use. 400 hours...
Spoke with the dealer. They are possibly willing to kick in 25% of the cost, Kubota 25%, and me 50% for a total of $2300 for the rebuild. This is going back to the boss for approval.
Kubota Customer Care hard lined that this was the best they were willing to do - price match with the dealer. This puts a dealer on the hook for a machine I did not buy from them. I did ask Kubota Customer Care if they would price match me, in the event the dealer said "No".
I was told NO. Simon from Customer Care kept pushing this all back to the regional FSM Zack. I asked for Zack's contact info and was told NO.
Kubota really put the local dealer in a bind, and it puts us in an even worse situation if the dealer indicates they can't do anything to help.
This is so frustrating. The entire rationale they cite is because we bought it from another couple (with 100 hours), there is no telling what could have been done to the machine in the 400 hours it has been use. 400 hours...
Just wondering if that is for only for the cylinder that was damaged or is it for a total rebuild because gas contamination can damage all moving parts. Also do they guarantee that there will be no future similar issues because they have updated parts available to fix it?
For some reason Kubota keeps it's regional reps isolated from customers and everything has to be relayed through dealers. Conversations with dealers are different depending if you talk to the owner or mechanic I have found. Really surprised that Kubota doesn't make a statement on this as it is spreading over social media like wildfire and affecting their reputation.
I have only seen one over 400 hours far. I will probably be selling mine with under 50 hours if nothing is done so hours really mean nothing on a used machine that Kubota says has no problems.
90 day warranty. No other promises or assurances. It will be a replace "Cylinder UN" $1,18364 per the Request Order.
The local dealer was pretty upset Kubota put them in this position. It is basically either help me at a loss, or they lose a customer.
It would be great if we could get someone from Kubota USA involved in this to work on a resolution. I'd love to have my faith renewed and remain a customer, especially since we're shopping for a new tractor next year.
