Hello from under Downunder. That is Tasmania, the southern island state of Australia. I have watched many videos, read reviews and spoken with seasoned farmers in my research but can I ask this audience a more specific question to help with my first tractor purchase which is now at the pointy end? I need to make a decision in the coming week to meet the June 30 (EOFY) deadline. Many folk seem to agree that geared transmission for the familiar is better suited to field work (PTO power to the ground - cutting/pulling) while hydro is safer, more intuitive for the inexperienced operator & easier on the clutch for loader work. To maintain our 30acre property I am likely to be using a 1500mm (5') slasher (bush hog) 60% of the time, loader work with a fork 20% & loader work with a 4in1 bucket 20%. I have looked closely at the JD 4066R which is fully optioned with hydro trans but out of my price range (AUD$82K), JD 5055E which is manual with Power Reverser which is within price range (AUD$55K) but can't take a backhoe and the Kubota L4600D (manual AUD$48K) & L4600 HST (hydro AUD$49K) which takes the Kubota BH92 backhoe (AUD$16k). I have first option on a tidy 2021 model Kubota L4600D (geared) with Kubota LA714 loader (skid steer hitch), Kubota 60" 4in1 bucket & fitted with the Kubota BH 92 backhoe. One careful, local owner with 137hrs on it and the package includes Kubota 1.8m sun canopy, 1500kg pallet forks and a rock sieve rake bucket (I have agreed the package deal for AUD$46.5k, cost new exceeds AUD$70K). The Kubota dealer is warning me that the geared/manual dry clutch will burn out in less than two years & a replacement is in the order of AUD$5-7K. To save me future heartache he would prefer I purchase a new Kubota L4600 HST tractor & have the dealership swap the loader & backhoe over to the HST tractor at a changeover cost to me of AUD$13k. I would retain the rock sieve rake bucket (AUD$4.5K) & pallet forks AUD$2k). Should I go for the geared AUD$46.5k "good package deal" & take a risk on the longevity of the clutch or fork out the additional AUD$13k for a new hydro L4600HST? Bearing in mind the rated 46.3hp engine & reduced PTO power if I went with the hydro. I only want to buy a tractor once, love using it & have it for the long term. I would greatly appreciate your considered thoughts as I need to make a decision in the coming week. Sincerely, Joe
L4600D or L4600HST - Manual or Hydro?
- Thread starter Brynmoor
- Start date
Good day. Several items come to mind from your post….
1. I am not sure the product lines and sizes in your part of world, but in Us I think a JD 5 series is a bit closer to a M (size, weight, and stance)than it is to an L.
2. If there is concern with power loss in a hydro is there a reason not to look a higher HP L or an MX? IMO an MX is similar in size and HP to the bigger Ls.
3. From what you described I think an L, MX, and M all are reasonable to at least price. (If pricing geared, I am not sure what would be harm to price an M). I felt MX was a better price point for max HP in an HST…but it is at a sacrifice of the features of the L, if it matters. An MX will take a BH92…and it makes great ballast.
so I’d probably price all three and then compare the machine weights and loader lifts against what I think I want to be able to lift (safely) and leave some safe working margin for safety…IMO the max rated lift can not really be lifted / hauled very easily (safely) so leave extra some margin (get more than you need) with your choice if your wallet allows.
At the end of the day I think there needs to be a choice between transmission type and lift capability you want. Good luck and share some pics back.
1. I am not sure the product lines and sizes in your part of world, but in Us I think a JD 5 series is a bit closer to a M (size, weight, and stance)than it is to an L.
2. If there is concern with power loss in a hydro is there a reason not to look a higher HP L or an MX? IMO an MX is similar in size and HP to the bigger Ls.
3. From what you described I think an L, MX, and M all are reasonable to at least price. (If pricing geared, I am not sure what would be harm to price an M). I felt MX was a better price point for max HP in an HST…but it is at a sacrifice of the features of the L, if it matters. An MX will take a BH92…and it makes great ballast.
so I’d probably price all three and then compare the machine weights and loader lifts against what I think I want to be able to lift (safely) and leave some safe working margin for safety…IMO the max rated lift can not really be lifted / hauled very easily (safely) so leave extra some margin (get more than you need) with your choice if your wallet allows.
At the end of the day I think there needs to be a choice between transmission type and lift capability you want. Good luck and share some pics back.
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If your clutch only lasts 2 years, you don't know how to use one. Clutch on the Farmall C is 70 years old.
Guess I’m doing good going on 6 years and I have a 6 and 8 year old driving it
Like Mcfarmall said, if it doesn’t last two years you aren’t doing something right.
I use mine for pretty similar work as you are intending to and it works out just fine.
jyoutz
Well-known member
Equipment
MX6000 HST open station, FEL, 6’ cutter, forks, 8’ rear blade, 7’ cultivator
I wouldn’t make the decision based on transmission durability: both are generally long lasting and trouble free for most people. I would base the decision on intended use. I had a gear transmission tractor for over 20 years and it was rock solid. But I prefer my new HST tractor because it makes work faster and easier. Pto hp loss is of no concern: my 60 ho tractor has 52 hp at the pto, which is more than adequate for any pto implements that I want to use.
If you’re set on buying an L4600, I’d go with the HST based on your intended usage description.
But if you want all the equipment and don’t mind a manual trans, the used unit would like a decent deal. Your dealer has his financial interest in mind, not yours. Don’t buy that line about the clutch going out soon.
I “hope” the prices for the new units include the loader, but I’m guessing maybe not since you mentioned taking the FEL off the used one and putting in on the new HST unit.
If you’re willing to buy used, you owe it to yourself to look at the Grand L 60 series (and 40 series, see below) and the MX HST models. Maybe even a smaller Hp M series. Myself, I wouldn’t bother looking at a used unit w/o an FEL included. I was looking a couple months ago and low hour (less than about 300 hours) 3 to 4 year old MX with an FEL were running roughly $35k USD. The prices on used stuff has leveled out on my side of the US (Pacific), maybe even coming down slowly.
Used Bs, LXs, Std Ls (23 to 26 Hp range, maybe 32 on the Std L) with FEL in the 2 to 5 year old range with under 500 hours (some under 200 hours) in the $20-25k USD (private party) all day long in the last three months or so. But then you can have your pick of a new one in the $25-30k USD range too, so only about a $5 discount to buy a lightly used tractor. I’d rather just have a new one for another 25%.
A low hour GrandL 40 series would be the cat’s meow in my opinion. Hp up to the 50-60 range all the fancy HST stuff and no crazy regen emission stuff (maybe AU models gets a free pass on that stuff? I don’t know). L4740, L5250 and L5940, the latter two have a turbo. About $30-35k with FEL and under a 1000 hours, when you can find one. That’s more than they sold for new 15 years ago (not accounting for inflation).
But if you want all the equipment and don’t mind a manual trans, the used unit would like a decent deal. Your dealer has his financial interest in mind, not yours. Don’t buy that line about the clutch going out soon.
I “hope” the prices for the new units include the loader, but I’m guessing maybe not since you mentioned taking the FEL off the used one and putting in on the new HST unit.
If you’re willing to buy used, you owe it to yourself to look at the Grand L 60 series (and 40 series, see below) and the MX HST models. Maybe even a smaller Hp M series. Myself, I wouldn’t bother looking at a used unit w/o an FEL included. I was looking a couple months ago and low hour (less than about 300 hours) 3 to 4 year old MX with an FEL were running roughly $35k USD. The prices on used stuff has leveled out on my side of the US (Pacific), maybe even coming down slowly.
Used Bs, LXs, Std Ls (23 to 26 Hp range, maybe 32 on the Std L) with FEL in the 2 to 5 year old range with under 500 hours (some under 200 hours) in the $20-25k USD (private party) all day long in the last three months or so. But then you can have your pick of a new one in the $25-30k USD range too, so only about a $5 discount to buy a lightly used tractor. I’d rather just have a new one for another 25%.
A low hour GrandL 40 series would be the cat’s meow in my opinion. Hp up to the 50-60 range all the fancy HST stuff and no crazy regen emission stuff (maybe AU models gets a free pass on that stuff? I don’t know). L4740, L5250 and L5940, the latter two have a turbo. About $30-35k with FEL and under a 1000 hours, when you can find one. That’s more than they sold for new 15 years ago (not accounting for inflation).
I own an L4701DT (Gear Version) and have used gear tractors almost exclusively, except some limited work with others HST tractors to help and to test drive. So I do have a built in leaning towards gear drive.
All that said, my uses are very similar to yours, except I do quite a bit of tillage. My personal preferences aside, In my opinion it sounds like to package offer on the used gear tractor is a really nice deal. 137 hours is basically nothing.
Since I interpret your poste to indicate that you're equally comfortable as a user with either the gear or the HST- I would just look at the finances and tractor features and choose from there.
The dealer comment about the gear only lasting to years....... it's just wrong..... unless as others have said it's misused, but even then, I've seen a lot of farmers abuse a clutch and it still last longer than that. I would be suspicious of the dealers motives.
All that said, my uses are very similar to yours, except I do quite a bit of tillage. My personal preferences aside, In my opinion it sounds like to package offer on the used gear tractor is a really nice deal. 137 hours is basically nothing.
Since I interpret your poste to indicate that you're equally comfortable as a user with either the gear or the HST- I would just look at the finances and tractor features and choose from there.
The dealer comment about the gear only lasting to years....... it's just wrong..... unless as others have said it's misused, but even then, I've seen a lot of farmers abuse a clutch and it still last longer than that. I would be suspicious of the dealers motives.
I would encourage you to go ahead and close that deal on the geared model. Mowing, plowing, shredding are all well handled with a geared tractor. The occasional use of the loader will not be adverse to use with a geared tractor.
The clutch will NOT burn out in 2 years. Clutch’s do not have a “clock” and know nothing about chronology.
The clutch will NOT burn out in 2 years. Clutch’s do not have a “clock” and know nothing about chronology.
Plenty of people use manual transmissions with loader work. It's not as nice as an HST, but you can do it.
I would discount concerns about loss of HP, it's so marginal you'd not notice it.
Mowing with the bush hog sounds like your main task. How large are your paddocks, how flat, and how long are the runs? If you can pretty much put it in gear and leave it running constant speed, then manual will be fine. If it's quite bumpy and with lots of turns, then HST will be more pleasant.
With a rotary cutter you really need to run constant revs. With a manual transmission that means putting it in gear and running constant speed until you clutch it again. If your terrain is suitable for doing that, you don't have to keep your foot on the pedal. If your terrain isn't suitable, you'll be changing gears all the time and it'll be very annoying. An HST is nicer in that situation because you can vary ground speed (and turn at the ends) without clutching or varying PTO speed. Flip side, mowing with my B2601 I get a tired knee after a while, the pedal spring is firmer than I'd like and you spend quite a bit of time with you foot on it (yes, it has a cruise, but it's kinda useless for the reasons above - where I mow I don't run constant speed)
I have an HST and would personally run an HST in your situation. But $13K is a lot, and pretty much all the bigger tractors aren't HST - Dad's big Kioti was a shuttle shift (admittedly much nicer for loader work than a standard manual), but for rotary cutter work that had the same drawbacks - pick a gear and then drive at the speed that you're going in that gear. You usually don't change gear while moving in a tractor (or at least, not without care and double declutching), so if you need to change ground speed you're generally stopping, changing gear, then starting again.
I seem to recall the older Ls had a two stage clutch for the PTO as well. They're a bit of an acquired taste. They work fine, but it's not the same as having an electronic start on the PTO.
I would discount concerns about loss of HP, it's so marginal you'd not notice it.
Mowing with the bush hog sounds like your main task. How large are your paddocks, how flat, and how long are the runs? If you can pretty much put it in gear and leave it running constant speed, then manual will be fine. If it's quite bumpy and with lots of turns, then HST will be more pleasant.
With a rotary cutter you really need to run constant revs. With a manual transmission that means putting it in gear and running constant speed until you clutch it again. If your terrain is suitable for doing that, you don't have to keep your foot on the pedal. If your terrain isn't suitable, you'll be changing gears all the time and it'll be very annoying. An HST is nicer in that situation because you can vary ground speed (and turn at the ends) without clutching or varying PTO speed. Flip side, mowing with my B2601 I get a tired knee after a while, the pedal spring is firmer than I'd like and you spend quite a bit of time with you foot on it (yes, it has a cruise, but it's kinda useless for the reasons above - where I mow I don't run constant speed)
I have an HST and would personally run an HST in your situation. But $13K is a lot, and pretty much all the bigger tractors aren't HST - Dad's big Kioti was a shuttle shift (admittedly much nicer for loader work than a standard manual), but for rotary cutter work that had the same drawbacks - pick a gear and then drive at the speed that you're going in that gear. You usually don't change gear while moving in a tractor (or at least, not without care and double declutching), so if you need to change ground speed you're generally stopping, changing gear, then starting again.
I seem to recall the older Ls had a two stage clutch for the PTO as well. They're a bit of an acquired taste. They work fine, but it's not the same as having an electronic start on the PTO.
Hi Folks, thank you to everyone who provided a response to my query & helpful feedback. A quick update: We are limited for Kubota models in Australia. We don’t get access to all of the LX, MX or Grand models. We only get to choose from L3800, L4600, MX5200 or the largest utility model the M7040SUHD. I was quite confident in the honesty & integrity of the local seller, his genuine reason for selling & the great deal this package represented. I requested an itemised tax invoice and paid the 10% holding deposit in good faith ahead of a pre purchase inspection by a straight shooting field mechanic who specialised in servicing Kubota tractors for 15 years. He inspected the rig yesterday & confirmed that it presents in “as new condition” & after putting it thru its paces in all gears, ranges, hydraulic tests, filters, seals etc he said it was ripper of a specimen and a steal! He also confirmed that in 15 years running the workshop for the Tasmanian Kubota dealership he had only ever replaced 1 geared clutch. A clear case of the dealer trying to spook me into buying the HST with additional associated costs which leaves a sour taste in my mouth & a caution for future dealings. Unfortunately, there is only 1 Kubota dealer in Tassie! Notwithstanding, I am very happy with my purchase & take delivery in 2 weeks. Now I just need to decide on the brand of new slasher (bush hog) and carry all. Also, does Kubota make a proprietary Quick hitch attachment for the 3pl or can anyone recommend a reputable third party supplier? I will take some photos of the tractor & implements & post when I receive the new addition to our property in 2 weeks time. Thanks again for your advice, I will throw questions your way with confidence as I enter new tractor territory! Cheers, Joe
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Congratulations on your new tractor. Indeed sounds like you did well. I’m sure the L4600 will serve you well and long. I get a smile on my face every time I get on one of my Kubotas. They are just a joy to operate.
Congratulations. In USA, Kubota works with landpride for implements and have a series of QHs. I’d recommend ‘Pats’ quick connect as a much more versatile alternative.
Thanks for the advice. I looked on Ebay & found I could buy the ‘Pats’ quick connect parts for AUD$495 plus AUD$72 postage. The pics of the goods appear to show Made in USA. Does this sound like the right sort of price to be paying?
I am not sure in the exchange rate…here is a couple things:
1. Ask tractor Mike…if not already aware he has a lot of information videos that are very helpful.
2. This specific link has pats quick hitch (I’d recommend watching the videos before getting to happy with the throttle) on it which you can order this and other stuff…At least here you can…it would give some idea of a fair price in USA for comparison to your exchange rate.
I hope this helps.
Pat's Easy Change Quick Hitch Category 1-Ask Tractor Mike
Pat's Easy Change Quick HItch Category 1. Easy to install and use. Patented original three point quick hitch. Buy it here.
asktractormike.com
Many things you can get in the US you can't get in our part of the world. I had no end of trouble getting a quick attach for my front end loader - Kubota claimed it wasn't certified to be used in NZ.
You may not need a quick hitch, depending on what you're doing and how you're storing your implements. You have to get off to do the PTO shaft anyway, really the question is how hard it'll be to horse your implements around. Extending arms can help, but the biggest help is storing your implements on concrete, on dollies. If you can roll them you don't need a quick hitch.
Quick hitches are not specific to any tractor brand - most quick hitches will work on most tractors. You may find someone local is making them cheaper than shipped from USA.
You may not need a quick hitch, depending on what you're doing and how you're storing your implements. You have to get off to do the PTO shaft anyway, really the question is how hard it'll be to horse your implements around. Extending arms can help, but the biggest help is storing your implements on concrete, on dollies. If you can roll them you don't need a quick hitch.
Quick hitches are not specific to any tractor brand - most quick hitches will work on most tractors. You may find someone local is making them cheaper than shipped from USA.
Hello again Folks. Following a very pleasant transaction with the previous owner our Kubota L4600 was delivered this morning. It sure was a good feeling to be handed the keys to my first tractor, basically new with 138hrs on the clock. A few pics attached as requested for your interest. Good news on the Pat’s Easy Change - they are on their way in the mail after I found them on Amazon Australia for AUD$515 including $32 postage. I’ve also got an Australian made galvanised 5’ slasher (bush hog), 6’x3’6” carryall & 500kg Burder 3pl counterweight on their way in the coming weeks.
I allowed myself to go awol today - I turned my phone off, didn’t check my emails & just played on the new machine for several glorious hours. I dug out stubborn rocks & shifted them with ease. I hitched up all three FEL implements (forks, 4 in 1 bucket & rock sieve bucket - individual photos to come once I receive the other implements) & thoroughly enjoyed the simplicity & ease of the skid steer connection system. I may have even earned some points with my wife by mulching the garden beds & creating new beds with topsoil she had previously been loading by hand into the wheelbarrow & lumping up to 50m away. My new orange wheelbarrow with hydraulics is indeed a luxury! I do, however, suspect that I may enter negative territory when it comes to points in my wife’s bank by spending too much time on this fabulously versatile & capable machine…! I’ll cross that bridge when it presents itself. Or, perhaps when I show her how to operate it maybe I’ll be dislodged from my comfortable mobile orange throne! For now, it’s been a great honeymoon & I look forward to many productive & rewarding hours pulling our property into shape & organising my large stock of Reclaimed Timbers which I used to handle manually… I’ll check back in when it’s time to remove the backhoe for the first time, attach the linkages & Pat’s Easy Change & fit the new slasher (bush hog). Oh and by the way, the geared tractor is no problem getting used to & I suspect I’ll enjoy it across all of the tasks but it really wasn’t a problem today doing quite a lot of loader work. Signing off for now
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I allowed myself to go awol today - I turned my phone off, didn’t check my emails & just played on the new machine for several glorious hours. I dug out stubborn rocks & shifted them with ease. I hitched up all three FEL implements (forks, 4 in 1 bucket & rock sieve bucket - individual photos to come once I receive the other implements) & thoroughly enjoyed the simplicity & ease of the skid steer connection system. I may have even earned some points with my wife by mulching the garden beds & creating new beds with topsoil she had previously been loading by hand into the wheelbarrow & lumping up to 50m away. My new orange wheelbarrow with hydraulics is indeed a luxury! I do, however, suspect that I may enter negative territory when it comes to points in my wife’s bank by spending too much time on this fabulously versatile & capable machine…! I’ll cross that bridge when it presents itself. Or, perhaps when I show her how to operate it maybe I’ll be dislodged from my comfortable mobile orange throne! For now, it’s been a great honeymoon & I look forward to many productive & rewarding hours pulling our property into shape & organising my large stock of Reclaimed Timbers which I used to handle manually… I’ll check back in when it’s time to remove the backhoe for the first time, attach the linkages & Pat’s Easy Change & fit the new slasher (bush hog). Oh and by the way, the geared tractor is no problem getting used to & I suspect I’ll enjoy it across all of the tasks but it really wasn’t a problem today doing quite a lot of loader work. Signing off for now
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