Top and Tilt debacle...A pictorial guide on how to shoot ones self in the foot (Part 1)

[Runs With Scissors]

Well no one "exactly" figured it out, but Wolfman and cthomas were both kinda right.

If you look at the fittings, I took the O-rings off so they wouldn't get damaged.

The problem here is that at the compression fittings, the tubes are so far into the fittings and since they are only inches long, there is absolutely no "flex" left. Pic 1

This leads to absolutely no way to undo the fittings and install the damn o-rings!!!!!

In the video I watched, the guy was doing a 2 or 3 foot long cylinder so he could "flex" his tube while turning the 90 degree fitting at the same time to get the tube in, in order to use the compression fittings.

He puts the tube in at about the 10:30 mark if your interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6NqbsbynJo

However in my case it lead to this "removal technique".......cutting the damn tube.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

So you would think that I am down and out, and just decide to take my loss like a man,

F@@K NO!!!!! I reach deep down for my inner Colonel Kilgore....

I'M NOT AFRAID TO SURF THIS PLACE, I'LL SURF THIS WHOLE F@@KING PLACE!



Lets do the little cylinder.....

The little one is not nearly as interesting though, cause it kicked me in the balls fairly quickly.

Since the CV was too long to fit in between the ports, I figure some "tactical geometric placement" is in order.

I'll just angle it.....

And since I just learned that I can't rotate anything, My hasty plan is too weld it with the o-rings on, BUT Just spot weld it, letting cool between tacks.

So with my remaining hydraulic fittings, I come up with a plan to angle it and "Quickly tack weld", letting the fittings cool between welds to protect the "innards"

So about 2 seconds in the first weld, ......POP!

Now I'm screwed, and I know it. Something didn't like the heat too much in the DPOCV.

Luckily for me, I don't have any more fittings to screw up so....

The End.....

 

[Heehaw]

So you would think that I am down and out, and just decide to take my loss like a man,

F@@K NO!!!!! I reach deep down for my inner Colonel Kilgore....

View attachment 104441

I'M NOT AFRAID TO SURF THIS PLACE, I'LL SURF THIS WHOLE F@@KING PLACE!



Lets do the little cylinder.....

The little one is not nearly as interesting though, cause it kicked me in the balls fairly quickly.

Since the CV was too long to fit in between the ports, I figure some "tactical geometric placement" is in order.

I'll just angle it.....

And since I just learned that I can't rotate anything, My hasty plan is too weld it with the o-rings on, BUT Just spot weld it, letting cool between tacks.

So with my remaining hydraulic fittings, I come up with a plan to angle it and "Quickly tack weld", letting the fittings cool between welds to protect the "innards"

View attachment 104442
View attachment 104443

So about 2 seconds in the first weld, ......POP!

Now I'm screwed, and I know it. Something didn't like the heat too much in the DPOCV.

Luckily for me, I don't have any more fittings to screw up so....

The End.....

I’ll have to say your project threads are some of the most informative I have read. The details along with the pictures are great. I really appreciate the detail you give of the mistakes you made instead of just giving the final result’s with everything working. To me seeing the mistakes made along the way are just as important or more so than seeing just the things that went right.

Thanks for sharing!

 

[Runs With Scissors]

I’ll have to say your project threads are some of the most informative I have read. The details along with the pictures are great. I really appreciate the detail you give of the mistakes you made instead of just giving the final result’s with everything working. To me seeing the mistakes made along the way are just as important or more so than seeing just the things that went right.

Thanks for sharing!

Thanks Heehaw, I appreciate the kind words....

Mistakes are the "tatoo's" of inventors/makers....Anyone that push's their limits has to make them, there is no way around it. It's some sort of Natural Law.

I suppose I don't have to post them, but that would be boring. Besides, posting them makes me reflect on "what not to do" next time.

One problem I have is that I do not fear failure, I battle with it..... and I constantly "gamble" (Hence the kick in the balls of the second cylinder, I absolutely knew my odds of it working were bad, but for 80 bucks.... those voices in my head were screaming, "F@@K IT, LETS TRY IT" )

This is also why I no longer play poker.....I have no problem going "all in" on 2,7, off suit,....... after all 2 sevens and a deuce could show up right? And the real pisser is that I did very well in my Gaming Theory stats class in college.....Go figure.

 

[icspots]

Mistakes are the "tatoo's" of inventors/makers....Anyone that push's their limits has to make them, there is no way around it. It's some sort of Natural Law.

I’ve always liked “todays mistakes are tomorrow’s wisdom”

 

[Runs With Scissors]

I’ve always liked “todays mistakes are tomorrow’s wisdom”

If that were true, my name would be King Solomon, but instead its Runs With Scissors....hahahah

 

[TheOldHokie]

I’ve always liked “todays mistakes are tomorrow’s wisdom”

Very true as long as you learn from your mistakes rather than repeat them.

For some reason that reminds me of a certain 20 year old guy that once put a main bearing cap on backwards and ignored all the early warning signs he got as he torqued it down.....

Dan

 

[icspots]

Very true as long as you learn from your mistakes rather than repeat them.

For some reason that reminds me of a certain 20 year old guy that once put a main bearing cap on backwards and ignored all the early warning signs he got as he torqued it down.....

Dan

Some of us are good at multitasking and can both learn from, and repeat mistakes simultaneously.

 

[B737]

yikes. seems like a lot of work. I just ordered from fit rite hydraulics, open box that was dropped at my door & install. Took about 15 minutes.

 

[TheOldHokie]

yikes. seems like a lot of work. I just ordered from fit rite hydraulics, open box that was dropped at my door & install. Took about 15 minutes.

Brian has been to more than one rodeo. Banjo fittings are your friend when it comes to these types of tight right angle spaces. Nary a single weld or brazed joint - all wrench assembly

Dan

 

[Runs With Scissors]

yikes. seems like a lot of work. I just ordered from fit rite hydraulics, open box that was dropped at my door & install. Took about 15 minutes.

Correct sir, I agree that it was a ridiculous amount of work and planning...etc.

Had I known about these DPOCV's, there is no question that is what I would have done at first.

The problem is, being new to Tractor'n, I didn't know anything about them, so now I gotta make the lemons into Lemon-aide.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

Does anyone know if my cylinder ports will accept Banjo fittings?

Here's reminder pic of the original fitting style.

Also any links to a hydraulics supply store that will have what I need to install a set of these things would be appreciated.

Here is a crappy picture of the port without the fitting. I can get a better one tomorrow if needed.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Does anyone know if my cylinder ports will accept Banjo fittings?

Here's reminder pic of the original fitting style.

View attachment 104452

Also any links to a hydraulics supply store that will have what I need to install a set of these things would be appreciated.

Here is a crappy picture of the port without the fitting. I can get a better one tomorrow if needed.


View attachment 104451

The ports are SAE o-ring ports and you can use a banjo fitting with crush washers in place of an oring fitting. You need to know the port size - I am guessing SAE-6 which is 9/16-18 UNF thread. Here is the bolt.

Fragola Banjo Adapter Fitting 9/16"-18 Thread Steel Bolts - Kartek Off-Road

Fragola Banjo Adapter Fitting 9/16"-18 Thread Steel Bolts for offroad racing in the King of the Hammers, New Zealand Taupo 1000, Dakar Rally, Tatts Finke Desert Race, Score International Baja 500 or Baja 1000, Mint 400, Vegas to Reno, Silk Way Rally, Crandon International, East African Safari...

www.kartek.com

If you can't find a 9/16 banjo you can use it with a 14mm banjo to JIC adapter.

Hose and Fittings.com

Compression fittings and steel tube to make up the proper over all length. These are handier than a shirt pocket for things like this. Pair them with steel tube cut to length and any male JIC adapter for a quick easy flareless makeup, They were pioneered by Aeroquip as VersilFlare fittings and I have attached the assembly instructions.

418 | Convert-A-Flare Tube Nut

The JIC 37? hydraulic fitting is the most common hydraulic hose connection in use today. Both the male and female fittings have a 37? seat. Also commonly used with flared hydraulic tubing.

www.discounthydraulichose.com

419 | Convert-A-Flare Tube Sleeve

The JIC 37? hydraulic fitting is the most common hydraulic hose connection in use today. Both the male and female fittings have a 37? seat. Also commonly used with flared hydraulic tubing.

www.discounthydraulichose.com

Dan

 

[cthomas]

If you can source the right bajo bolt that will thread into the cylinder, yes a banjo bolt will seal as all it need is a flat surface. The German auto companies loved banjo bolts back in the early 80's. I think my old Rabbit had about 16 of them on the fuel system and my banana boat(300SD Mercedes wagon((dull yellow))) had about 40 of them. I can feel your pain as I once modified a SBC to fit(and operate) into a Volvo 240..... I called it the Chevolvo. Anyway Dan beat me to it with links, so I'll stop typing now...

 

[Runs With Scissors]

The ports are SAE o-ring ports and you can use a banjo fitting with crush washers in place of an oring fitting. You need to know the port size - I am guessing SAE-6 which is 9/16-18 UNF thread. Here is the bolt.

Fragola Banjo Adapter Fitting 9/16"-18 Thread Steel Bolts - Kartek Off-Road

Fragola Banjo Adapter Fitting 9/16"-18 Thread Steel Bolts for offroad racing in the King of the Hammers, New Zealand Taupo 1000, Dakar Rally, Tatts Finke Desert Race, Score International Baja 500 or Baja 1000, Mint 400, Vegas to Reno, Silk Way Rally, Crandon International, East African Safari...

www.kartek.com

If you can't find a 9/16 banjo you can use it with a 14mm banjo to JIC adapter.

Hose and Fittings.com

Compression fittings and steel tube to make up the proper over all length. These are handier than a shirt pocket for things like this. Pair them with steel tube cut to length and any male JIC adapter for a quick easy flareless makeup, They were pioneered by Aeroquip as VersilFlare fittings and I have attached the assembly instructions.

418 | Convert-A-Flare Tube Nut

The JIC 37? hydraulic fitting is the most common hydraulic hose connection in use today. Both the male and female fittings have a 37? seat. Also commonly used with flared hydraulic tubing.

www.discounthydraulichose.com

419 | Convert-A-Flare Tube Sleeve

The JIC 37? hydraulic fitting is the most common hydraulic hose connection in use today. Both the male and female fittings have a 37? seat. Also commonly used with flared hydraulic tubing.

www.discounthydraulichose.com

Dan

Thank you very much Dan.

I really do appreciate the help.

Now I'm all excited again.....

I know for a fact that I need one new DPOCV, so I need to re-measure and try to find one that fits between the ports on the small cylinder.

Gonna go home and take some measurements.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

Ok, I've decided to tackle these one cylinder at a time.

I'm gonna order the parts for the top the link from the links that Dan provided for the top cylinder, then tackle the more problematic side cylinder.

The space between the ports on the side cylinder is only about 4 1/2 inch's so I'm having a difficult time finding one that will fit.

This one is about as close as I get and even then I will have to "offset" it somehow, I think.

Rexnord PCD-F1-2G Dual Pilot-Operated Lock Valve Gasket Mount | Check & Lock Valves | Hydraulic Valves | Hydraulics | www.surpluscenter.com

Rexnord PCD-F1-2G Dual Pilot-Operated Lock Valve Gasket Mount, Check & Lock Valves, PILOT-OPERATED LOCK VALVE Unused old inventory.Rexnord,PCD-F1-2G,

www.surpluscenter.com

 

[TheOldHokie]

Ok, I've decided to tackle these one cylinder at a time.

I'm gonna order the parts for the top the link from the links that Dan provided for the top cylinder, then tackle the more problematic side cylinder.

The space between the ports on the side cylinder is only about 4 1/2 inch's so I'm having a difficult time finding one that will fit.

This one is about as close as I get and even then I will have to "offset" it somehow, I think.

Rexnord PCD-F1-2G Dual Pilot-Operated Lock Valve Gasket Mount | Check & Lock Valves | Hydraulic Valves | Hydraulics | www.surpluscenter.com

Rexnord PCD-F1-2G Dual Pilot-Operated Lock Valve Gasket Mount, Check & Lock Valves, PILOT-OPERATED LOCK VALVE Unused old inventory.Rexnord,PCD-F1-2G,

www.surpluscenter.com

One quick look but I think that valve is designed to bolt to a flange not hoses. Better double check the technical docs

I just got back from errands and had a longer look. My initial thoughtscare correct - that valve is meant for surface mounting which provokes an interesting thought. It would be very easy to make an aluminum subplate with bottom side ports to bolt to your cylinder with banjo bolts and top side ports to match the valve.....

Dan

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

You can use the valve you have.
You put it at an angle to the cylinder.
So 90's off the ports the 90 back to the pivot valve.

And yes I failed art class!

 

[civlized]

you can use the valve you have.
You put it at an angle to the cylinder.
So 90's off the ports the 90 back to the pivot valve.

And yes I failed art class!

View attachment 104534

You didn't fail. That is clearly a stick of dynamite with a dancing Sponge Bob standing on it!

 

[TheOldHokie]

Here's a quick sketch of the subplate idea. Hopefully it does not remind anyone of Sponge Bob