Need advice on how to disassemble hydraulic cylinder

North Idaho Wolfman

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Saying "you're the man" would be an understatement. Thanks so much for the pointer, and the document on top of it all. Where's the forum donation button????


p.s. reminder to myself and whoever else wants to listen - don't say stuff like " I'd be in the clear if I could get the piston off." -- as if I didn't know that already....LOL
Go to Kubotabooks.com and give him a donation, he is kind enough to host documents like these.
And if you want to help fund OTT go here: https://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/account/upgrades
 
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timsch

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'49 8N, L275DT
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I did find what appears to be the repair kits for the Model 1200 cylinders.

Kubota L2773 (FRONT LOADER) Parts (messicks.com)

There is one variation in the lift kit parts for the bucket cylinder (item #13 is different from what's shown in the Owners Manual that was linked earlier). The diagrams in the link & in the OM are almost identical.
 
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North Idaho Wolfman

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I wouldn't worry about small variations in the parts, sometimes they have just done upgrade to the kits.
 
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Yooper

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Nice job on getting that broken clip removed! Shows you have some patience. And we all appreciate the pictures of your progress
 
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timsch

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I received my Messicks order. The 70050-00301 kit doesn't have anything that I recognize as a snap ring replacement (item #3 in the lift cylinder diagram on their website - Kubota L2773 (FRONT LOADER) Parts (messicks.com)). When I search the site for item # 70070-00107, I don't see any picture. Unfortunately, there's no picture for the 70050-00301 kit either for me to compare it to.

Here's what I received

IMG_20230201_181505716.jpg


The snap ring that was in my cylinder has been replaced by another P/N. Does anyone know what this replacement is supposed to look like?

One obvious difference in the kit is the white chevron seal. What's special about this one? Here is my original seal stack on the left, and the new one on the right, plus the white seal (just added it on top, not thinking it's supposed to be in that order). The white seal makes the stack higher, otherwise it would be the same.

IMG_20230201_180527783.jpg


I have sent Messicks an email about this, but thought I'd run it by y'all as well.
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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I'm sorry I didn't catch this earlier that's the right kit.
You need this kit same as the kit for a L1730
You just need to get 70050-00315 snap ring, it's not part of the kit.
And yes you will not use the nylon ring, it was used in other models.
 
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timsch

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I'm sorry I didn't catch this earlier that's the right kit.
You need this kit same as the kit for a L1730
You just need to get 70050-00315 snap ring, it's not part of the kit.
And yes you will not use the nylon ring, it was used in other models.
I don't know what is different with what you just posted. What did you miss that you apologized for? The rebuild kit # is the same in your & my link. Regardless, I'll have to order the snap ring. It's odd that they didn't include anything to hold in the seal stack - seems like a mistake. I'll find out what they say tomorrow.

p.s. Did you get the PM I sent regarding the problem with upgrading my account? I can't get the Paypal link to let me pay with a CC.
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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I don't know what is different with what you just posted. What did you miss that you apologized for? The rebuild kit # is the same in your & my link. Regardless, I'll have to order the snap ring. It's odd that they didn't include anything to hold in the seal stack - seems like a mistake. I'll find out what they say tomorrow.

p.s. Did you get the PM I sent regarding the problem with upgrading my account? I can't get the Paypal link to let me pay with a CC.
Yea, the reason they don't include the clip is most cylinders don't use it, they use the white ring.

And yes I've got a message into the higher ups on the PayPal / CC situation, I'll let you know when I hear back.
 
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timsch

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I'm putting back together the bucket cylinder and have a question about the main seal stack. The new one when stacked up higher than the old one. This is what I'd expect knowing nothing else, but earlier when I compared the new lift main seal stack with the old one, they were pretty much the same height.

Picture shows the stack on the piston, but the plastic end piece is not on yet, and the top seal is flush with the end. The piston nut screws onto shaft until it contacts the piston, IIRC. This will compress the stack a fair bit, making it spread out. If the OD increases because of the compression, I'd imagine it could be a PITA to reinstall in the cylinder.

I'd imagine this is typical, but thought I'd see what y'all have to say before going much further. thanks

IMG_20230204_165452296.jpg IMG_20230204_165504870.jpg
 

007kubotaguy

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Do you have a owners manual ? It should tell you how to assemble the cylinder. It's tricky. I will see if I can find my copy.
 

007kubotaguy

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Here's a picture. Install the assembly with the packing nut lose. Then put a punch in the lower port into the hole in the side of the packing nut . Then tighten it. If you would like a copy of the page send me a PM with a email.
 

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timsch

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Thanks for the pointer - much appreciated. I do have that manual thanks to the Wolfman. Why I didn't look at it before posting my question is a head-scratcher. Shame on me.
 

DustyRusty

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Manuals are like reading a recipe when you are cooking. It is easy to miss something that is important in the first reading. Asking questions is how you get the job done correctly and don't mess up thinking that you know all the answers because you read the manual. I have done some jobs multiple times, but just not frequently enough that I don't need a refresher course in operations. When you do the next cylinder in 5 years, come back to this thread for a refresher course. It will save your sanity and patience. I speak for my own personal experiances.
 
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timsch

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Houston, TX
Finally getting back to this now that I have the circlip.

The reassembly instructions have step (b)

1675960832519.png


I'm surprised they don't manufacture these with a lead-in chamfer already machined. My lathe can't handle these pieces, but even if it could, I wouldn't want to clamp down on the seal surface. So then I'm left with a sanding disk on a side grinder or something similar. Not so great....

The top picture is the bucket rod, bottom is the lift rod. Bucket rod has just the sharp edge, but the lift rod has at least a radius. I wish it were more, because once I get the seal stack installed in the cap and compressed enough for the circlip to be installed, the seal ID will be pushed in enough that I can see the reassembly will be a bear.

IMG_20230209_103026767.jpg


IMG_20230209_103038165.jpg


p.s. The bucket rod picture shows what looks like a bad surface, but it is just a reflection of something above. They're also resting on plastic shelving, even though it looks like rusty metal shelving.
 
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D2Cat

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Timsch, I've been following your thread and what I have probably won't help you but may help others if they come looking for info on hyd repairs.

I have a Westendorf loader on my tractor and one of the lift cylinders is leaking. When I called Westendorf I couldn't get specific price because I didn't have the serial number, but she indicated price would range from $90-$160 for the seal kit. After removing from the tractor figuring out how to remove the ram wasn't clear. The gland has two slots in it and in those slots one has to locate the eyes of a snap ring, compress the snap ring and yank the ram with enough force to displace the snap ring. The KD snap ring pliers with the locking handle really makes this job easier.

Once I have all the components apart I take it the the local hyd shop. He had all the components, installed all the seals and wipers (including the inner seal on the piston, that is easier with the three fingered gizzmo). I had called him before I headed his direction. I visited with him as he measured and installed parts. Thirty-forth minutes and $17.

I told him to have the same components on hand 'cause I'll be back when I get the other cyl apart.
 

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timsch

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Houston, TX
Timsch, I've been following your thread and what I have probably won't help you but may help others if they come looking for info on hyd repairs.

I have a Westendorf loader on my tractor and one of the lift cylinders is leaking. When I called Westendorf I couldn't get specific price because I didn't have the serial number, but she indicated price would range from $90-$160 for the seal kit. After removing from the tractor figuring out how to remove the ram wasn't clear. The gland has two slots in it and in those slots one has to locate the eyes of a snap ring, compress the snap ring and yank the ram with enough force to displace the snap ring. The KD snap ring pliers with the locking handle really makes this job easier.

Once I have all the components apart I take it the the local hyd shop. He had all the components, installed all the seals and wipers (including the inner seal on the piston, that is easier with the three fingered gizzmo). I had called him before I headed his direction. I visited with him as he measured and installed parts. Thirty-forth minutes and $17.

I told him to have the same components on hand 'cause I'll be back when I get the other cyl apart.
You've got a heck of a connection there. I tried the same thing, but my local shop had a $30 "matching fee" to figure out what seals were needed just to start with. I mentioned that I did find a kit for ~$115, and he said that would likely beat what he could offer. Hard to believe.... I was disappointed, but what could I do, so I left and ordered the kit for the lift & bucket cylinders. Kits came in a few days, but the kit for the lift cylinder did not come with a snap ring, as I indicated earlier, so I had to wait for that one to come in.

In the mean time, I started reworking the bucket cylinder since the kit was complete. Unfortunately, I buggered up one of the seals by not chamfering the piston rod, so that will have to be reordered.

Today, I chamfered both piston rods with my belt sander held in a vise. Cleaned up the chamfers with my dremel tool & some steel wool and started reassembling the lift cylinder. The 4-piece chevron seal stacks provided enough resistance that I needed the shop press to get the cylinder cap started (no surprise there since the stack had to be compressed to get the snap ring in place and the rubber could only spread to the ID the way it is contained). Once that was done, I got the seal stack on the piston, the piston on the rod and then inserted into the cylinder. I thought that might go in with minimal effort since the piston stack wasn't compressed yet, but there was enough resistance that I ended up putting the rod pin-end in a vise, hooking the ends of a ratchet strap to the vise after running the strap through the cylinder pin hole on the opposite end. Ratcheting pulled it together pretty well.

That's all the time I had for it today. Tomorrow I'll finish tightening the piston nut. I've got maybe 2 turns on it and it's somewhat tight already. I thought I read somewhere that 4 turns would be required, but I didn't see that in the 1200 FEL manual when I looked again today. I'll have my son hold backup on it tomorrow when I finish tightening it with fingers crossed that I'm in the ballpark.

I waited on ordering the seal I screwed up until I finished the lift cylinder. I think I'm good now, so I'll order it asap.
 

D2Cat

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I used an engine piston ring compressor to compress the seals as I tapped it into the barrel.

The shop I use for hyd parts has been in business for quite a while. They rebuild so large cylinders. I've seen some in the shop that are like 18-20 ft long, They do all the work on World's of Fun components. The guy helping me put all the parts on the ram with the nuts screwed on the threads but not tight. He doesn't want any responsibility unless he does all the work and pressure test it before it is sent out. All part of their insurance. Of course then the price is QUITE different.

A couple of years ago a friend broke the end of the ram (the entire eye where the pin goes) off of a lift cyl. on a 50 HP JD tractor. JD wanted $800 for the cylinder. He took it to Mid America Hyd. Repair and they welded it back on by heating it slowly welding some, heat more, etc the cooled it slowly. Works fine....$200.
 
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