80 foot trench for propane line

[GreensvilleJay]

gee DR, my BH has never been OFF in 4 years....
the outriggers move less than 1/4" overnight

 

[ctfjr]

Re; multiple 100gal tanks

I was told the reason you can have more of these next to a house is because the fire department can roll it away. Larger ones not so much.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

'roll away' ???
Man I'd thought they'd be SECURELY attached to some kind of immovable base ???

 

[ctfjr]

I've never seen them attached. Close the valve, cut the line, roll it away.

I have a 60 gal tank here. It just sits on a prefab base.

 

[DustyRusty]

I have 4 tanks sitting on 3 concrete patio blocks. I have rolled them from the back of the house to the side and replumbed them to make it more convenient for the delivery guy in the winter so he doesn't have to trudge through the snow.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Evil, thanks - I will take you up on that offer!

We are on the Vancouver Island - it's rarely down to 20 F but does get there on occasion. We are VERY humid. Natural gas is not available to us or it would be my choice as I had it for years and liked it.

I don't see how heat pumps work with water baseboards so that may be a limitation. I also like having a non electric heat source so we don't have to rely on hydro - we do get a lot of tree fall outages in our area. Wood burning as a supplement is a problem (Lisa has trouble with it).

So, we shall see what he says...

Look at this as a possible choice:
I have this unit and it works perfectly!

Noritz

www.noritz.com

 

[The Evil Twin]

Look at this as a possible choice:
I have this unit and it works perfectly!

Noritz

www.noritz.com

As a backup, maybe. Those gnaw through LP at full tilt

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

As a backup, maybe. Those gnaw through LP at full tilt

Ummm, I'll have disagree with that, my setup is incredibly efficient.
Running all summer it only uses a few gallons of propane for Hot water, and around 600 gallons for the full winter, and I heat 3880SF.
My electric bill for the house and garage is in the $80 range.

I also don't need cooling in the summer as our house stays in the mid 60's.
The warmest it got was 71 one day this summer then back down the next day.

In comparison I was heating a 1200SF trailer (yes noticeably less efficiently insulated) with a pellet stove and it was costing me $800 on a good year and $1200 on a bad year, and on top of that I was paying $200+ a month to run a standard water heater in that house.

Heat pumps are great in the right situation, just doesn't work well for us with our temps being so low all winter.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

The BIG issue with those (any ? ) tankless units is that they don't like well water (hard) and unless you 'regularly clean it', it'll plug up.
I've seen 3 local installs and NONE have had 'access plumbing' to run chemicals though the unit

 

[fried1765]

On my old BX22, the outriggers would go down overnight, so I strapped them in the upright position. I always pin my backhoe, so I don't know if it will sag overnight. Didn't even put it on this past summer and it remains in the shed for the winter.

I never pin my BH.
I always leave it on the ground or floor.
I strap my stabilizers together.

 

[The Evil Twin]

Ummm, I'll have disagree with that, my setup is incredibly efficient.
Running all summer it only uses a few gallons of propane for Hot water, and around 600 gallons for the full winter, and I heat 3880SF.
My electric bill for the house and garage is in the $80 range.

I also don't need cooling in the summer as our house stays in the mid 60's.
The warmest it got was 71 one day this summer then back down the next day.

In comparison I was heating a 1200SF trailer (yes noticeably less efficiently insulated) with a pellet stove and it was costing me $800 on a good year and $1200 on a bad year, and on top of that I was paying $200+ a month to run a standard water heater in that house.

Heat pumps are great in the right situation, just doesn't work well for us with our temps being so low all winter.

I was looking at the specs. Maybe they were giving a range for different models. I just saw the 11 gph of LP and fell over. Lol!
I know typical tankless water heaters use about 1 gal per day on average.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I was looking at the specs. Maybe they were giving a range for different models. I just saw the 11 gph of LP and fell over. Lol!
I know typical tankless water heaters use about 1 gal per day on average.

Yea I could see it pulling that much demand if it was putting out the full 199,000 BTU.
I'm pulling no where near that, if my calculations are correct, I'm in the range of about 20,000 BTU for about 1/2 hour to 1 hour per day.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

The BIG issue with those (any ? ) tankless units is that they don't like well water (hard) and unless you 'regularly clean it', it'll plug up.
I've seen 3 local installs and NONE have had 'access plumbing' to run chemicals though the unit

Mine is running on well water, although not super hard, but it's been running for 2 years and it looks as spotless as the day it was installed, and yes it has provisions for cleaner to be run and circulated through the unit to clean it, takes about an hour to clean it.

 

[The Evil Twin]

Yea I could see it pulling that much demand if it was putting out the full 199,000 BTU.
I'm pulling no where near that, if my calculations are correct, I'm in the range of about 20,000 BTU for about 1/2 hour to 1 hour per day.

That is the beauty of tankless. They may gobble the juice but only when needed. It would make sense (for domestic HW) for us since no HW is used for 20 hours per day. The electric is on a timer for now. Heating, not so much. Bot of course, no two climates are suitable for the same solution.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

That is the beauty of tankless. They may gobble the juice but only when needed. It would make sense (for domestic HW) for us since no HW is used for 20 hours per day. The electric is on a timer for now. Heating, not so much. Bot of course, no two climates are suitable for the same solution.

" no two climates are suitable for the same solution"
100%, when I lived in AZ this would have been pointless!
Most places I lived had multiple AC units for cooling and they were also the heat, which for there was very efficient!

 

[AndyM]

Thanks for the idea Wolfman - I will have a closer look. The boiler I have is rated for a Gross output @ 135,000 btu/hr. We heat @3500 sq ft and have VERY hard well water (nice to drink, clear as a bell but hard as a rock). While we don't usually get really cold, it very humid.

The on demand sounds good but I worry if it will be up to the task as a primary heat source.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Thanks for the idea Wolfman - I will have a closer look. The boiler I have is rated for a Gross output @ 135,000 btu/hr. We heat @3500 sq ft and have VERY hard well water (nice to drink, clear as a bell but hard as a rock). While we don't usually get really cold, it very humid.

The on demand sounds good but I worry if it will be up to the task as a primary heat source.

I think it would be very much up to the task, it's a very robust system, but do your own research.
We get quite cold here and my place never gets cold inside.

 

[AndyM]

Well, given your endorsement means a lot - much better to hear from someone with first hand experience with a lot of knowledge on the topic. I have shown it to the chief decision maker - she is struggling with the propane idea (might explode!) so that is the first challenge.

In truth we may not have any other real options than propane. The heat pump idea leaves me cold (so to speak)...

 

[DustyRusty]

Natural gas or propane explosions are exceedingly rare. Only when there is a bad leak does it happen, and you can install a gas detector to protect yourself from leaks. I have detectors that detect smoke, carbon monoxide, and propane. So far, none have been detected in 35 years, however, occasionally a smoke detector will fail and wake you up in the middle of the night. Had that happen twice with the Kidde Talking Combination Alarm Model CP9000. It came with a 10-year life and 10-year guarantee, but no way to get it replaced. Sent an email to Kidde, but never heard back from them. Just replaced them with new ones. When I bought them, I bought spares knowing that they do fail before the 10 years. Getting close to the time that I will be replacing them all. The home was built before they were mandated to be hard-wired, and now there is no way to hard-wire them without making holes in the plaster to get the wires down to a central point. Once a year I replace all the batteries.

 

[The Evil Twin]

however, occasionally a smoke detector will fail and wake you up in the middle of the night.

Seems like it's the only time they fail. Lol.