Back to HST problum

GreensvilleJay

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BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
Apr 2, 2019
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You'd think so , but it drives on the level so WHAT inside the gear tranny can 'bog down' the engine going up an incline ?
This is sounding more and more of the 'gotta be there to see it' problems.

Hmm, any chance you can remove rear driveshaft, put in 4WD and see if it drives 'normal' ?
 

RBsingl

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Kubota F 2690 72" rear discharge deck, Deere 955
Jul 1, 2022
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Try pushing something heavy on a level area to put it under load and see if the transmission is causing issues under just a load or if it requires an actual incline to create the problem.

Some odd fluid level or check valve issue maybe if it only occurs on an incline. Or something loose allowing a line to flex or be pinched when the tractor is on an incline?
 
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Dustyx2

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Feb 19, 2021
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You'd think so , but it drives on the level so WHAT inside the gear tranny can 'bog down' the engine going up an incline ?
This is sounding more and more of the 'gotta be there to see it' problems.

Hmm, any chance you can remove rear driveshaft, put in 4WD and see if it drives 'normal' ?
Does it bog backing up an incline? All ranges of the transmission? This is a strange one.
 

torch

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B7100HSD, B2789, B2550, B4672, 48" cultivator, homemade FEL and Cab
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Jack all 4 wheels off the ground and support on axle stands. Does it still bog the engine to engage the HST? Is there any one wheel not turning? Any difference forward or reverse?
 
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jimh406

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Does it do the same thing in L-M-H? Have you checked/adjusted the HST linkage? Does it make a difference in 4wd vs 2wd?
 

ferguson

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L3130
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Will
Jack all 4 wheels off the ground and support on axle stands. Does it still bog the engine to engage the HST? Is there any one wheel not turning? Any difference forward or reverse?
will try the jack / if something somewere was binding IE bearing oil should have gray matter in dont you think Oil clean on 1000hr service 18hr ago
 

ferguson

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L3130
Jan 19, 2022
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Has
Try pushing something heavy on a level area to put it under load and see if the transmission is causing issues under just a load or if it requires an actual incline to create the problem.

Some odd fluid level or check valve issue maybe if it only occurs on an incline. Or something loose allowing a line to flex or be pinched when the tractor is on an incline?
Hase power problum deaging land plain on flat ground also
 

ferguson

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L3130
Jan 19, 2022
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Try pushing something heavy on a level area to put it under load and see if the transmission is causing issues under just a load or if it requires an actual incline to create the problem.

Some odd fluid level or check valve issue maybe if it only occurs on an incline. Or something loose allowing a line to flex or be pinched when the tractor is on an incline?
Pushed up against a tree mib & high gear boged down eng would have stalled if i let it / low gear broke traction befor stalling
 

Jsjac

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B2650
Feb 13, 2022
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Not familiar with that model tractor.
Have you changed the fuel filters?
May be lacking enough fuel to carry the load.
If it has a turbo, is the pipe from the turbo to the engine leaking? Lots of times when the charge air is leaking it will make a gray stain where the leaking charge air is hitting.

I did not go back and read all the old threads.
Jeff
 

Henro

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Pushed up against a tree mib & high gear boged down eng would have stalled if i let it / low gear broke traction befor stalling
It spins the wheels when pushing against a tree in low range, but can't pull a land plane on flat ground? Is this in low range? Something is not adding up. How about in mid range? I assume you have three ranges...

Bottom line it seems like you are saying something changed in your operating experience. It doesn't do what it used to. Is this correct?

Sounds like there is still some power there, but maybe less than before? Not surprised it would bog down pushing against a tree in high range. I've stalled my tractor out in low range being aggressive when using my loader.
 

torch

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B7100HSD, B2789, B2550, B4672, 48" cultivator, homemade FEL and Cab
Jun 10, 2016
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How far are you pushing the HST pedal when up against a tree vs climbing a hill?

HST is a little counter intuitive, in that the drive has the most power when the pedal is pushed down a little bit and least power when the pedal is pushed all the way. It's not a gas pedal, it's more like an infinitely variable transmission, where pushing the pedal slightly is the lowest "gear" and pushing it all the way is the tallest "gear".

Also, pushing the pedal all the way requires the highest fluid flow. If there is a restriction (filter, in-line screen, kink, etc.) it will be more apparent the further the pedal is pushed.
 
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ferguson

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L3130
Jan 19, 2022
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How far are you pushing the HST pedal when up against a tree vs climbing a hill?

HST is a little counter intuitive, in that the drive has the most power when the pedal is pushed down a little bit and least power when the pedal is pushed all the way. It's not a gas pedal, it's more like an infinitely variable transmission, where pushing the pedal slightly is the lowest "gear" and pushing it all the way is the tallest "gear".

Also, pushing the pedal all the way requires the highest fluid flow. If there is a restriction (filter, in-line screen, kink, etc.) it will be more apparent the further the pedal is pushed.
Yes pedal all the way down travling / just abit pushing against the tree / when travling if i let up on the peddle just a bit RPM cum pack up / filters oil less then 20 hr old / there are apparently high psi relifes valves inside ?????? maybe
 

ferguson

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L3130
Jan 19, 2022
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It spins the wheels when pushing against a tree in low range, but can't pull a land plane on flat ground? Is this in low range? Something is not adding up. How about in mid range? I assume you have three ranges...

Bottom line it seems like you are saying something changed in your operating experience. It doesn't do what it used to. Is this correct?

Sounds like there is still some power there, but maybe less than before? Not surprised it would bog down pushing against a tree in high range. I've stalled my tractor out in low range being aggressive when using my loader.
Can pull the land plain in mid gear but not grate /my old freguson TO20 will run away with the land plain & there only 20 Hp
 

torch

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B7100HSD, B2789, B2550, B4672, 48" cultivator, homemade FEL and Cab
Jun 10, 2016
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869
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Muskoka, Ont.
Yes pedal all the way down travling / just abit pushing against the tree / when travling if i let up on the peddle just a bit RPM cum pack up / filters oil less then 20 hr old / there are apparently high psi relifes valves inside ?????? maybe
Ok, forget what I said about filter or kinked lines. That wouldn't bog down the engine.

Back to the pedal position: As I said earlier, pushing the pedal slightly is like putting a gear transmission in 1st gear. Pushing the pedal all the way is like putting the tranny in high gear.

To review:

in "1st gear", the tires will spin when pushing against a tree. In top gear, the motor will bog down going up the slightest hill but recover if you "downshift" (ease up on the pedal a bit).

Engine itself seems to have normal power, in that it will run a heavy PTO load alone without bogging down. But we don't know for certain exactly how much HP that load is actually applying.

Problem is slightly less apparent once the engine and fluids are warmed up.

Fluid and filter was changed without apparent effect.

Tractor rolls easily in neutral.

I am not an expert, but wondering out loud in reverse order:

While the tractor rolls when no torque is applied, jacking the tractor off the ground might reveal an issue that only occurs under torque on the driveline. EG: worn bearing.

By "fluid" I assume you mean the transmission fluid. What brand/weight of fluid? The improvement when warm may indicate that the problem is reduced as the fluid thins a bit as it warms up. Discount fluid may not be right for the HST.

Any chance a local farm supply/tractor repair shop would have a PTO dyno available to confirm available engine power? Perhaps the bat-wing just doesn't apply as much load on the engine as you think it does. Bear in mind that an HST is less efficient at transmitting power to the ground than a gear drive. The fluid heats up because some of the engine power is being converted to heat pushing the fluid around instead of usable power to the ground.

Alternatively, while you changed the injectors, etc., have you done any investigation of the engine mechanical health, such as a compression test? Checked the air filter/intake for blockages?

I don't know if it's even possible to move the HST swash plate too far, but could this be a pedal adjustment issue? (Maybe one of the Kubota mechanic can weigh in on this here). I assume the tire sizes are stock? (Larger tires would require more torque to turn). Can you verify that the transmission range is actually shifting when you move the lever? (eg: mark tires and measure rpm of tire in each range with tractor jacked off the ground at idle).
 

GreensvilleJay

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Equipment
BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
Apr 2, 2019
11,421
4,908
113
Greensville,Ontario,Canada
my gut figures a 24' mower takes a fair amount of power, should prove the engine/clutch/HST are 'ok'...
I'm wondering if the tranny range lever(L-M-H) is working right ? Is L really Low ? Say it says "l" but physically it's 'M'. That could account for the 'bogged down', like hitting the wrong gear in a car.
 

ferguson

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L3130
Jan 19, 2022
296
114
43
w.v.
my gut figures a 24' mower takes a fair amount of power, should prove the engine/clutch/HST are 'ok'...
I'm wondering if the tranny range lever(L-M-H) is working right ? Is L really Low ? Say it says "l" but physically it's 'M'. That could account for the 'bogged down', like hitting the wrong gear in a car.
There is a significant change in speed between all 3
 
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ferguson

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L3130
Jan 19, 2022
296
114
43
w.v.
Ok, forget what I said about filter or kinked lines. That wouldn't bog down the engine.

Back to the pedal position: As I said earlier, pushing the pedal slightly is like putting a gear transmission in 1st gear. Pushing the pedal all the way is like putting the tranny in high gear.

To review:

in "1st gear", the tires will spin when pushing against a tree. In top gear, the motor will bog down going up the slightest hill but recover if you "downshift" (ease up on the pedal a bit).

Engine itself seems to have normal power, in that it will run a heavy PTO load alone without bogging down. But we don't know for certain exactly how much HP that load is actually applying.

Problem is slightly less apparent once the engine and fluids are warmed up.

Fluid and filter was changed without apparent effect.

Tractor rolls easily in neutral.

I am not an expert, but wondering out loud in reverse order:

While the tractor rolls when no torque is applied, jacking the tractor off the ground might reveal an issue that only occurs under torque on the driveline. EG: worn bearing.

By "fluid" I assume you mean the transmission fluid. What brand/weight of fluid? The improvement when warm may indicate that the problem is reduced as the fluid thins a bit as it warms up. Discount fluid may not be right for the HST.

Any chance a local farm supply/tractor repair shop would have a PTO dyno available to confirm available engine power? Perhaps the bat-wing just doesn't apply as much load on the engine as you think it does. Bear in mind that an HST is less efficient at transmitting power to the ground than a gear drive. The fluid heats up because some of the engine power is being converted to heat pushing the fluid around instead of usable power to the ground.

Alternatively, while you changed the injectors, etc., have you done any investigation of the engine mechanical health, such as a compression test? Checked the air filter/intake for blockages?

I don't know if it's even possible to move the HST swash plate too far, but could this be a pedal adjustment issue? (Maybe one of the Kubota mechanic can weigh in on this here). I assume the tire sizes are stock? (Larger tires would require more torque to turn). Can you verify that the transmission range is actually shifting when you move the lever? (eg: mark tires and measure rpm of tire in each range with tractor jacked off the ground at idle).
The transmission has a very significant change between high,med& low it is in either H M L when you shift to any one / as far as the bat wing the farmer was impesssed how fast it climed to full RPM (sed his old farmall H cant do that) Going to do the jack up tomorrow / going to read up on peddle adj. & check ( This problum has steadily increased in 40 hr i have owned the tractor/ first thing i pulled was a 9 tooth "S"thang haro was not overly impressed with it"s performance comparied to old Ferguson TO20 (ie 20 HP) will keep u informed THANKS FOR ALL THE INPUT (I dont know if i can put my phone # on this sight WOULD LIKE TO TALK IF POSSIBLE ( goining to ask them)
 

D2Cat

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The transmission has a very significant change between high,med& low it is in either H M L when you shift to any one / as far as the bat wing the farmer was impesssed how fast it climed to full RPM (sed his old farmall H cant do that) Going to do the jack up tomorrow / going to read up on peddle adj. & check ( This problum has steadily increased in 40 hr i have owned the tractor/ first thing i pulled was a 9 tooth "S"thang haro was not overly impressed with it"s performance comparied to old Ferguson TO20 (ie 20 HP) will keep u informed THANKS FOR ALL THE INPUT (I dont know if i can put my phone # on this sight WOULD LIKE TO TALK IF POSSIBLE ( goining to ask them)
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