B6100 with a FEL running on an electric hydraulic pump

[Lyzic]

Hi all,

Brand new member here with an interesting problem.

I just picked up a late 70s B6100D. It is in okay shape, as good as one can expect.

One thing is has is a FEL that was fabbed up for it by the guy I got it from. It had a few minor issues, mainly hydraulic leaks.

I've run those all down and found another issue. The hydraulics are run from an electrical driven hydraulic pump that has it's lines connected to the battery.

If the battery is charged, I get a half hour of use until the battery is totally drained.

I think either the dynamo is going bad, or the hydraulic pump is pulling way too much power.

Does anyone know what the power produced from the dynamo should be?

This seems a bit of a convoluted system. Has anyone plumbed in a split into the 3pt hitch hydraulics to run a FEL instead of adding another pump?

I have lots to learn, I know

 

[Sammy3700]

I think the pump is going to require way too much as far as amp draw. I have a 10 ton dump trailer with a electric pump which has its own battery it is also wired straight to the truck battery with dedicated 4 gauge welding cable (both positive and negative) the truck has a 135 amp alternator. I leave the truck running while loading dirt and counting drive time normally 30 minutes between dump times to keep the batteries up

 

[TheOldHokie]

Hi all,

Brand new member here with an interesting problem.

I just picked up a late 70s B6100D. It is in okay shape, as good as one can expect.

One thing is has is a FEL that was fabbed up for it by the guy I got it from. It had a few minor issues, mainly hydraulic leaks.

I've run those all down and found another issue. The hydraulics are run from an electrical driven hydraulic pump that has it's lines connected to the battery.

If the battery is charged, I get a half hour of use until the battery is totally drained.

I think either the dynamo is going bad, or the hydraulic pump is pulling way too much power.

Does anyone know what the power produced from the dynamo should be?

This seems a bit of a convoluted system. Has anyone plumbed in a split into the 3pt hitch hydraulics to run a FEL instead of adding another pump?

I have lots to learn, I know

That is probably top of the FAQ list. Yes it has been done and is inexpensive and easy. Here is the factory loader valve plumbing. You will need the hydraulic outlet block to split off pressure to the loader valve and return it back to the tractor for the 3pt lift. That can be purchased form members here. The transmission return fitting is stil available from Kubota. The rest is generic hoses and fittings you can get anywhere.

Dan

 

[Lyzic]

You guys are amazing! I totally missed the FAQ , my apologies.

 

[TheOldHokie]

You guys are amazing! I totally missed the FAQ , my apologies.

I made up the FAQ part. If there is one I missed it too.

Dan

 

[Lyzic]

Ha, I should spend some time reading then.

I know I had a bypass on an old Massey we had. It worked really well. Would I need to plumb in an extra reservoir to handle the FEL capacity as well, or does the stock system have enough fluid to cover it all?

 

[TheOldHokie]

Ha, I should spend some time reading then.

I know I had a bypass on an old Massey we had. It worked really well. Would I need to plumb in an extra reservoir to handle the FEL capacity as well, or does the stock system have enough fluid to cover it all?

You are using the same pump so flow does not change. After you hook the loader in you should cycle all of the cylinders to purge air and fill the cylinders. Then top up the hydraulic oil level and you are good to go.

What sort of valve to you currently have on the loader? The factory plumbing requires a valve with both tank and power beyond port.

Dan

 

[Lyzic]

Please give me the benefit of the doubt here...I am not a mechanic so I'll get some terms wrong.

It has a 2 valve control right now. One is split to the 2 cylinders that raise/lower the bucket, and one is split to the 2 cylinders that tilt the bucket.

I'm sorry I don't understand what you mean by tank and power beyond port. I'll Google and see if I can teach myself the right terminology.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Please give me the benefit of the doubt here...I am not a mechanic so I'll get some terms wrong.

It has a 2 valve control right now. One is split to the 2 cylinders that raise/lower the bucket, and one is split to the 2 cylinders that tilt the bucket.

I'm sorry I don't understand what you mean by tank and power beyond port. I'll Google and see if I can teach myself the right terminology.

No need for apologies and here it is in a nutshell. I am going to skip the longwinded and confusing details of how and why for now and focus strictly on connecting things.

Your current loader valve probably has four hoses to the cylinders and two hoses connecting it to the pump. The four hoses going to the cylinders are fine. Its those two hoses to the pump that we need to talk about. One is a high pressure in from the pump and the other is a low pressure oil return to the hydraulic reservoir (tank) in the loader.

To use the hydraulic system on the tractor you need a loader valve with three supply hoses, One is high pressure in from the pump, one is return oil to the hydraulic reservoir (tank) in the tractor, and the third is a high pressure return to the 3pt lift valve in the tractor. That third line is commonly called power beyond (PB) or more correctly high pressure carry over (HPCO).

Your current loader valve may or may not be capable of providing that third connection. If you can find a make and model number on it that might be helpful, Some pictures of the top and sides where the hoses connect might also be informative. In any event it is not a game changer - a replacement valve is not horribly expensive at roughly $150.

Dan

 

[Lyzic]

That is so much better off an explanation than anything else I found!

Time to get to the shop and see what valve I have.

 

[Lyzic]

Happy Easter!

I think that I may need a new valve. I could not find a plate on the valve, so I snapped a few quick pictures. I don't believe this has the power beyond feature, but can the experts please weigh in?



The high pressure from the pump is the one on the bottom right of the front, and the low pressure return to reservoir is the bottom left.

However there are two capped outs that are directly in front of the two valve levers. Could these be power beyond outs that are capped and not in use in this setup?

 

[TheOldHokie]

Happy Easter!

I think that I may need a new valve. I could not find a plate on the valve, so I snapped a few quick pictures. I don't believe this has the power beyond feature, but can the experts please weigh in?



The high pressure from the pump is the one on the bottom right of the front, and the low pressure return to reservoir is the bottom left.

However there are two capped outs that are directly in front of the two valve levers. Could these be power beyond outs that are capped and not in use in this setup?

View attachment 78460

Can't tell for sure but looks like no PB and no inlet pressure relief. You really need both.

Dan

 

[Lyzic]

https://www.princessauto.com/en/md30-two-spool-directional-control-valve/product/PA0008491334

Is this what I would need?

 

[TheOldHokie]

Way too big. I have suggested this one in the past. I have no affiliation its just a good value. Joy stick with float and regen spools and free shipping. A few months ago it was $50 less.....

Brand Hydraulics Joystick Loader Valve 2 Spool w/ Float

Brand Hydraulics Joystick Loader Valve 2 Spool w/ Float can add two functions. Valve has 10 GPM capacity. Free Shipping!

summit-hydraulics.com

Dan

 

[torch]

A couple of points:
Your tractor hydraulic pump cranks out about 3 USGPM. Yes, a 30GPM valve will work, but not well -- it will be very hard to feather, particularly when attempting two functions at once. In this case, cheaper is better -- 8 or 10 GPM is more than ample. Second, particularly if your tractor has a hydrostatic transmission, drain the FEL cylinders before connecting to the tractor's system to avoid contaminating the fluid in the tractor.

Oh, and with reference to your original question: the stock dynamo puts out a whopping 10 amps. 120 watts. 1/6th of a horsepower. Just enough to keep the battery charged between starts if you limit the use of the headlights.

 

[Lyzic]

Way too big. I have suggested this one in the past. I have no affiliation its just a good value. Joy stick with float and regen spools and free shipping. A few months ago it was $50 less.....

Brand Hydraulics Joystick Loader Valve 2 Spool w/ Float

Brand Hydraulics Joystick Loader Valve 2 Spool w/ Float can add two functions. Valve has 10 GPM capacity. Free Shipping!

summit-hydraulics.com

Dan

Awesome! Ordered

 

[Lyzic]

A couple of points:
Your tractor hydraulic pump cranks out about 3 USGPM. Yes, a 30GPM valve will work, but not well -- it will be very hard to feather, particularly when attempting two functions at once. In this case, cheaper is better -- 8 or 10 GPM is more than ample. Second, particularly if your tractor has a hydrostatic transmission, drain the FEL cylinders before connecting to the tractor's system to avoid contaminating the fluid in the tractor.

Oh, and with reference to your original question: the stock dynamo puts out a whopping 10 amps. 120 watts. 1/6th of a horsepower. Just enough to keep the battery charged between starts if you limit the use of the headlights.

Not a hydrostatic but a manual.

I imagine the tranny has a screen filter. I'll use this opportunity to drain and change the fluid as I'm not sure when the previous owner did it last

And considering that the dynamo produces such little charge, no wonder the electric pump drained the battery so quickly!

 

[torch]

If it's a manual transmission, then mixing the fluids is less of a concern. But fresh clean fluid never hurt anything.

I wonder if this tractor originally had a PTO powered hydraulic pump for the FEL -- perhaps off the front of the crankshaft. The electric one may be someone's idea of a repair.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Did you order the power beyond plug?
Are you getting the hydraulic adapter plate from Torch?
You will also need an adapter for the fill port to add the T and line.

 

[Lyzic]

I have fruitlessly searched for an overall picture or diy post but haven't found one, so playing it by ear.

The valve I bought and that is linked above has a power beyond adapter included.

I am not sure on a total parts list, and what everything is called.

So does the low pressure return from the valve go to the adapter you mentioned into your fill port on the transmission?