B6100 with a FEL running on an electric hydraulic pump

[torch]

I have fruitlessly searched for an overall picture or diy post but haven't found one, so playing it by ear.

The valve I bought and that is linked above has a power beyond adapter included.

I am not sure on a total parts list, and what everything is called.

So does the low pressure return from the valve go to the adapter you mentioned into your fill port on the transmission?

This might help:

B7100 Hydraulic block diverter (70060-00360 or 70070-00385)

Looking at charts like this: https://clearwaterhydraulics.com/hose-size-vs-gpm-ezp-24.html -06 is fine for 3 gpm, but getting iffy for 6 gpm. But the block is a local restriction -- in and of itself, it forms a small part of the entire system. The restriction in any elbows is several times...

www.orangetractortalks.com

The return can be via a 1/2" NPT nipple and tee in the fill port.

 

[torch]

Like so:

 

[TheOldHokie]

Like so:

The transmission filler port is NPT?

Dan

 

[torch]

Here's my fill plug. Threads are sharp, tapered and 14TPI.

 

[Lyzic]

My fill plug is smooth. At least the larger one beside the gear shift is...is there a secondary one that is threaded?

And when I popped it off....holy moly. A flush and drain is most definitely in the very near future.

 

[torch]

Nevermind contaminating the transmission with the FEL fluid -- your transmission would contaminate the FEL!

I did not realize the gear transmission had a different plug for the filler. Looking at the Kubota Canada parts finder, I see a plug of some sort on the upper right rear of the transmission case (#21). Two different part numbers, depending on serial number. I wonder if it could be used?

 

[TheOldHokie]

Here's my fill plug. Threads are sharp, tapered and 14TPI.

Hmmmm. Here is mine as fitted to the OEM 70050-01615 transmission adapter. It is tapered with a major diameter of .825 that a a dead match for BSPP. It screws in to fully seat with no interference on the female port. This is on a B7200 but the parts books say the B7100 and B7200 use the same filler plug so something is amiss here.

BSPP and NPT are both 12 TPI but the major diameter of a BSPP fitting is a little larger than NPT. So you could screw a male NPT fitting into a female BSPP port but the thread fit will be a little loose and the flank angles are different and sealing would be poor. Ain''t going to matter in this application but I would be surprised if the filler port on the tractor is actually NPT.

Dan

 

[Lyzic]

My tractor is a B6100D, manual 4WD, not a B7100.

Does the 6100 mean that this whole setup is a moot point and won't work? I can't find a stock diverter either, but I'm not exactly a super mechanic and it is pouring rain on me at the moment.

 

[torch]

BSPP and NPT are both 12 TPI

Typo? They are both 14tpi.

but the major diameter of a BSPP fitting is a little larger than NPT. So you could screw a male NPT fitting into a female BSPP port but the thread fit will be a little loose and the flank angles are different and sealing would be poor. Ain''t going to matter in this application but I would be surprised if the filler port on the tractor is actually NPT.

BSP and NPT have the same 1/16" per foot taper. (BSPP of course, has no taper). The difference between BSP and NPT is the thread form. BSP has a flank angle of 55° and rounded roots (basically, Whitworth form) whereas NPT has sharp 60° V-threads.

But you are right -- a 1/2" NPT nipple will wind into a 1/2" FBSP hole (without sealing) whereas the inverse is highly unlikely due to the thread shape and angle.

And you are right, it doesn't really need to seal in this application. It's just dumping the excess fluid back into the transmission with no pressure.

 

[TheOldHokie]

My tractor is a B6100D, manual 4WD, not a B7100.

Does the 6100 mean that this whole setup is a moot point and won't work? I can't find a stock diverter either, but I'm not exactly a super mechanic and it is pouring rain on me at the moment.

B6100 is the same series as a B7100 - everything you have done so far is fine. They all use the same diverter. I can't tell if there are threads on your tractors filler port or not. Either way it can be made to work.

Dan.

 

[Lyzic]

Typo? They are both 14tpi.



BSP and NPT have the same 1/16" per foot taper. (BSPP of course, has no taper). The difference between BSP and NPT is the thread form. BSP has a flank angle of 55° and rounded roots (basically, Whitworth form) whereas NPT has sharp 60° V-threads.

But you are right -- a 1/2" NPT nipple will wind into a 1/2" FBSP hole (without sealing) whereas the inverse is highly unlikely due to the thread shape and angle.

And you are right, it doesn't really need to seal in this application. It's just dumping the excess fluid back into the transmission with no pressure.

so...the farmer fix of some duct tape and page wire will work wonders eh?

 

[torch]

My tractor is a B6100D, manual 4WD, not a B7100.

Does the 6100 mean that this whole setup is a moot point and won't work? I can't find a stock diverter either, but I'm not exactly a super mechanic and it is pouring rain on me at the moment.

I think the very earliest models did not have the diverter block. If your's has one, then it will be on the right hand side, just abaft of the engine.

If it doesn't have one, then you have two choices:

1. Cut the line from the pump to the 3ph and add fittings to divert the flow instead of a hydraulic block.

2. Use the diverter valve under the front of the seat to supply the FEL. Advantage: you only need 2 hoses -- no PB port or relief valve required, so you could use your existing control valve. Disadvantage: you can use either the 3ph or the FEL at any one time. You needd to lock the 3ph up when using the FEL and lock the FEL up when using the 3ph. And it only supplies fluid when the 3ph control is in the "raise" position.

 

[torch]

I can't tell if there are threads on your tractors filler port or not. Either way it can be made to work.

Looks like 0-rings when I zoom in close.

 

[Lyzic]

I think the very earliest models did not have the diverter block. If your's has one, then it will be on the right hand side, just abaft of the engine.

If it doesn't have one, then you have two choices:

1. Cut the line from the pump to the 3ph and add fittings to divert the flow instead of a hydraulic block.

2. Use the diverter valve under the front of the seat to supply the FEL. Advantage: you only need 2 hoses -- no PB port or relief valve required, so you could use your existing control valve. Disadvantage: you can use either the 3ph or the FEL at any one time. You needd to lock the 3ph up when using the FEL and lock the FEL up when using the 3ph. And it only supplies fluid when the 3ph control is in the "raise" position.

I actually think option #2 is something similar we had on an older Massey, maybe a 165. You could only use one at a time.

That wouldn't be a big deal as I don't see a situation where I need to run both at the same time.

I've attached a photo of the abaft of the engine, no diverter block that I can see.

I've also attached a photo of what may be the diverter valve? It looks like it could be threaded to accept a fitting. Is what I circled correct?

 

[Lyzic]

Looks like 0-rings when I zoom in close.

Yes, it is O-rings.

 

[Lyzic]

2. Use the diverter valve under the front of the seat to supply the FEL. Advantage: you only need 2 hoses -- no PB port or relief valve required, so you could use your existing control valve. Disadvantage: you can use either the 3ph or the FEL at any one time. You needd to lock the 3ph up when using the FEL and lock the FEL up when using the 3ph. And it only supplies fluid when the 3ph control is in the "raise" position.

To further expand, so I would be able to use my existing valves, which negates my fancy new one I ordered. That would save me some money (which I will immediately repurpose on flushing and replacing all the fluids on this beast).

I would then plumb the in port on my existing control valve to the valve under the seat. And then plumb the out port on my existing control valve to the filler port on the transmission?

 

[Lyzic]

Alternatively, are the lines with the diverter block something that can be purchased? I'm going to send an email to Messicks...it would be nice to just swap in the diverter block lines and then use the plate to plumb it all properly )

 

[TheOldHokie]

To further expand, so I would be able to use my existing valves, which negates my fancy new one I ordered. That would save me some money (which I will immediately repurpose on flushing and replacing all the fluids on this beast).

I would then plumb the in port on my existing control valve to the valve under the seat. And then plumb the out port on my existing control valve to the filler port on the transmission?

Don't settle for margarine when you can have butter.

Dan

 

[torch]

Ok, no hydraulic block. And right were the diverter valve should be, you have a cap with an apparent outlet but no valve. Interestingly, that cap is shown on the parts diagram, with the note "Only Iran". Now, why Iran doesn't rate a valve and how that valveless cap made it into Canada are mysteries I fear we will never solve.

I wouldn't want to bet on the pipe with the hydraulic block fitting your machine. I don't see one listed for the gear drive transmission, the only one listed is for the HST version and while they look like they start and stop in the same places, there's no dimensions given and I bet the bends are a little bit different. That said, Kubota Canada shows it as still available at around $185.

I bet you can buy some compression fittings and hose adapters for a lot less.