Grapples

[Dcguinn]

EA claims one at 150#, just looking around myself.

 

[Jchonline]

Yeah. Currently, I’m between the Kioti 60”, the Virnig 60”, or the EA 55”. They all look really beefy and are in the same neighborhood when it comes to weight and price. I just can’t shake the idea that I would like a grapple that’s at least as wide as my tractor which is 60” wide with the tires.

Nah don't worry about that. Mine isn't as wide as my machine...never thought twice about it. 5 inches is 2.5 on each side. It really isn't that much.

Grapples stick out pretty far out the front of the machine, dramatically increasing the room needed for a turnaround. Having one that is a bit narrower will help you get through tighter spots. However if you have wide open areas, then it won't matter.

 

[Jchonline]

Not sure where that number is coming from. Kubota specs the max lift weight (at the pins) at 1131lbs. That is consistent with what I observed on my L2501 and there's also a couple of youtube video tests that got almost the same number. It won't come close to 2000lbs (or I likely wouldn't have traded it in.)

Kubota names the models of their loaders by the lift capacity in kg at max height at the pins you take the number and multiply it by 2.2 (to get lbs). So a 525 x 2.2 is about 1150 lbs at the pins. The grapple weight doesn't sit at the pins, it is forward of them (as you mentioned), as would any load be so it will be less. I guesstimated at 1000 lbs but could still be wrong.

 

[S-G-R]

So I have an L2501 and the LP0660. Works great. I would suggest though you don’t go the cheapest one. These tractors can tear up a grapple. Watch GP outdoors and he bent his with an LX2610. Personally I would either go with the LP as you can do 2 years with 0% interest if cost is a factor. I like mine. Or with the EA Wicked grapple. The latter though requires all the money upfront and from what I understand is 4-6+ months for delivery. Now don’t get us all started on that thread again lol.

I have the same grapple as GP on a similarly equipped LX2610. It is a 60" HLA grapple/root rake manufactured in Ontario, Canada. It isn't light at 405 pounds. My primary use it clearing invasive brush which the rooting aspect comes into play and it will handle a large pile of brush with ease. Rear ballast is also my friend.

 

[mcmxi]

With all due respect, breakout force is NOT lift capacity at ground level. Breakout force is typically measured using BOTH the lift and curl cylinders as well as also leveraging the back edge of the bucket against the ground as a fulcrum.

If that were the case why would Kubota's FEL specs include both breakout force measured at the bucket pin and 500mm forward, as well as roll back force at ground level, 1.5m and maximum height?

For example, the LA1065 on my MX has the following specs:

Breakout force at pivot pin: 4,074 lb
Breakout force 500mm forward: 3,171 lb
Bucket roll back force at ground level: 4,046 lb

And since roll back force is provided at three different heights it's clear that there's no "leveraging the back edge of the bucket" going on. The roll back force at ground level is at the pivot pin so again no leveraging.

 

[Anchovy]

I have the same grapple as GP on a similarly equipped LX2610. It is a 60" HLA grapple/root rake manufactured in Ontario, Canada. It isn't light at 405 pounds. My primary use it clearing invasive brush which the rooting aspect comes into play and it will handle a large pile of brush with ease. Rear ballast is also my friend.

yeah, I did some more research and I think a standard root grapple would best suit my needs since they’re more designed for removing brush and debris that has already taken root. Meanwhile a root rake grapple would be best for clearing brush and debris that is already just kind of in a pile

 

[Deleted member 47704]

So I have an L2501 and the LP0660. Works great. I would suggest though you don’t go the cheapest one. These tractors can tear up a grapple. Watch GP outdoors and he bent his with an LX2610. Personally I would either go with the LP as you can do 2 years with 0% interest if cost is a factor. I like mine. Or with the EA Wicked grapple. The latter though requires all the money upfront and from what I understand is 4-6+ months for delivery. Now don’t get us all started on that thread again lol.

If he did it with an LX2610 then he did it twice. Vid 178 shows him being heavy handed with a B2601 moving large ROCKS.No surprise he bent a couple tines.

 

[Goz63]

If he did it with an LX2610 then he did it twice. Vid 178 shows him being heavy handed with a B2601 moving large ROCKS.No surprise he bent a couple tines.

I believe he did. Not sure though. He was working again with his neighbor on the shooting range. Either way if you can bend it with a B or LX you surely can with an L.

 

[Anchovy]

If that were the case why would Kubota's FEL specs include both breakout force measured at the bucket pin and 500mm forward, as well as roll back force at ground level, 1.5m and maximum height?

For example, the LA1055 on my MX has the following specs:

Breakout force at pivot pin: 4,074 lb
Breakout force 500mm forward: 3,171 lb
Bucket roll back force at ground level: 4,046 lb

And since roll back force is provided at three different heights it's clear that there's no "leveraging the back edge of the bucket" going on. The roll back force at ground level is at the pivot pin so again no leveraging.

It’s probably because all of those cylinders operate off the same pump. You can lift 500lbs 4 feet off the ground but you won’t be able to curl that 500lbs very easily because you’re already taking a lot of pressure/power just to lift and hold that 500lbs. As far as breakout force vs lifting force goes, breakout force is how much you can curl with the tilt-bucket cylinders. Think of the cylinders as muscles in your arm. The tilt cylinders are equal to your bicep which is used for curling weight. The lift up/down cylinders are equal to your tricep which is used for pushing weight

 

[TheOldHokie]

How about a MTL?

They have a 48, 54 & 60". All under 400 lbs and < $1300 delivered. Im very pleased with mine and in it was delivered in 1 week from the date of order,

MTL 48" / 54" / 60" Skid Steer Root Grapple Bucket Attachment-Orange — MTL Attachments

Brand New Built in the USA 48" Compact Tractor Root Grapple bucket for skid steers The complete MTL line is built in the USA, by hard working families living in the USA High Strength Steel A36 HYDRAULIC CYLINDER COVERS INCLUDED !!! 3/8" sides - middles-Uppers

www.mtlattachments.com

With all due respect, breakout force is NOT lift capacity at ground level. Breakout force is typically measured using BOTH the lift and curl cylinders as well as also leveraging the back edge of the bucket against the ground as a fulcrum. I agree that with a grapple, breakout force may be interesting in some tasks - like leveraging up stubborn roots. But overall lift capacity is also something that needs to be considered (as OP is doing) because if you put a heavy grapple on the L-series, you're going to subtract that weight from what you can actually lift.

Here's a real-world test and the numbers were pretty close to Kubota's published specs.

I have seen it and its a good explanation of how the lifting numbers differ between the loaders. But it is not a well designed real world test in terms of the 2000# lifting capacity I threw out:

1. The measurements are nowhere close to ground level height
2. The test rig is not measuring at the pins but well forward of them.
3. It neglects the weight of the bucket.

Here is a better conceived and executed test of actual lifting capacity.

Video is quite long so here are the Cliff Notes:

1. Test was conducted using an L2501 which has 150 PSI lower hydraulic pressure than a L3901.
2. Load was measured at the pins and 20" above ground level.
3. Measured loads also neglect to adjust for the weight of the rigging which is probably 100# or more.

Notice that when he bumped the pressure by 360 PSI (210 PSI higher than a stock L3901) he measured a bit over 2000# @ 20" height. I think these numbers are very indicative of 2000# or more at the pins and ground level with a dead stock L3901.

Getting back to the original question of choices and tradeoffs. Obviously a heavier grapple reduces your payload so you have to take that into account. But be sure to compare apples to apples. A EA 60 inch twin lid root grapple is rated for a 35-55 HP tractor and weighs 430#. The MTL RG-7 grapple is rated for up to 60HP machines and weighs 90 pounds more. It also costs $1000 less with no money up front and arrives in 8-10 days instead of 8-10 months.

Dan

 

[mcmxi]

It’s probably because all of those cylinders operate off the same pump. You can lift 500lbs 4 feet off the ground but you won’t be able to curl that 500lbs very easily because you’re already taking a lot of pressure/power just to lift and hold that 500lbs. As far as breakout force vs lifting force goes, breakout force is how much you can curl with the tilt-bucket cylinders. Think of the cylinders as muscles in your arm. The tilt cylinders are equal to your bicep which is used for curling weight. The lift up/down cylinders are equal to your tricep which is used for pushing weight

My point was that rollback force (curl) and breakout force are different and not the same as stated by @nota4re. Here's the spec sheet for the LA1065. Z and ZZ are different forces.

 

[mcmxi]

But be sure to compare apples to apples. A EA 60 inch twin lid root grapple is rated for a 35-55 HP tractor and weighs 430#. The MTL RG-7 grapple is rated for up to 60HP machines and weighs 90 pounds more. It also costs $1000 less with no money up front and arrives in 8-10 days instead of 8-10 months.

Dan

That's a laugh. The EA wait time keeps getting longer and longer according to some here, and yet I don't know of anyone that has had to wait 8 months for a Wicked grapple. But I guess that's normal in this "say anything" culture today.

As for the HP rating, where's a video showing the MTL grapple doing anything? Here's a video showing the EA 55" grapple that's only rated for 40hp and lower tractors but here's Ted abusing it on a 60+ hp tractor. Yep, make sure you compare apples to apples and do some digging and see what's actually made in America and not shipped in from China, either partially built or fully assembled.

@Anchovy, an EA grapple does require upfront payment and will take quite a few months to show up, but if you want one of the best grapples made in US that will do more than pick up a few sticks and leaves or move grass cuttings around then the it's worth the hassle. I'd get a Wicked 55" if I were you.

 

[Anchovy]

I have seen it and its a good explanation of how the lifting numbers differ between the loaders. But it is not a well designed real world test in terms of the 2000# lifting capacity I threw out:

1. The measurements are nowhere close to ground level height
2. The test rig is not measuring at the pins but well forward of them.
3. It neglects the weight of the bucket.

Here is a better conceived and executed test of actual lifting capacity.

Video is quite long so here are the Cliff Notes:

1. Test was conducted using an L2501 which has 150 PSI lower hydraulic pressure than a L3901.
2. Load was measured at the pins and 20" above ground level.
3. Measured loads also neglect to adjust for the weight of the rigging which is probably 100# or more.

Notice that when he bumped the pressure by 360 PSI (210 PSI higher than a stock L3901) he measured a bit over 2000# @ 20" height. I think these numbers are very indicative of 2000# or more at the pins and ground level with a dead stock L3901.

Getting back to the original question of choices and tradeoffs. Obviously a heavier grapple reduces your payload so you have to take that into account. But be sure to compare apples to apples. A EA 60 inch twin lid root grapple is rated for a 35-55 HP tractor and weighs 430#. The MTL RG-7 grapple is rated for up to 60HP machines and weighs 90 pounds more. It also costs $1000 less with no money up front and arrives in 8-10 days instead of 8-10 months.

Dan

I don’t care about horsepower ratings. They mean nothing. What matters is the weight you are trying to lift. I’m not going to put a 500lb implement on my tractor when that is already half of my lifting capacity.

 

[nota4re]

mcmxi - Out of respect for the op, and keeping HIS thread on-track, I'm not going to respond to your off-topic nonsense. Kubota PUBLISHES lift capacity for the L2501. When we are speaking about LIFT CAPACITIES, I think that's the spec that is relevant. Neither me or the op cares about your MX and what its capacities are.

FWIW, op, I think you are doing a logical, sound analysis to try to balance quality/durability with a weight that still gives you room to work given what you anticipate carrying.

 

[Anchovy]

mcmxi - Out of respect for the op, and keeping HIS thread on-track, I'm not going to respond to your off-topic nonsense. Kubota PUBLISHES lift capacity for the L2501. When we are speaking about LIFT CAPACITIES, I think that's the spec that is relevant. Neither me or the op cares about your MX and what its capacities are.

FWIW, op, I think you are doing a logical, sound analysis to try to balance quality/durability with a weight that still gives you room to work given what you anticipate carrying.

Yeah, I don’t plan on lifting much. But I don’t want to kill the tractor just with the weight of the grapple. I would also like to leave some room in case a storm knocks down a tree

 

[TheOldHokie]

That's a laugh. The EA wait time keeps getting longer and longer according to some here, and yet I don't know of anyone that has had to wait 8 months for a Wicked grapple. But I guess that's normal in this "say anything" culture today.

As for the HP rating, where's a video showing the MTL grapple doing anything? Here's a video showing the EA 55" grapple that's only rated for 40hp and lower tractors but here's Ted abusing it on a 60+ hp tractor. Yep, make sure you compare apples to apples and do some digging and see what's actually made in America and not shipped in from China, either partially built or fully assembled.

Kubota names the models of their loaders by the lift capacity in kg at max height at the pins you take the number and multiply it by 2.2 (to get lbs). So a 525 x 2.2 is about 1150 lbs at the pins. The grapple weight doesn't sit at the pins, it is forward of them (as you mentioned), as would any load be so it will be less. I guesstimated at 1000 lbs but could still be wrong.

So does 525KG include the weight of the implement or just the bare arms? Since the implements are all over the place weight wise I would assume that is bare arms.

Here is 900# well forward of the pins - 525# grapple and 375# log). I had to curl to get the log to the back of the tines to lift it. Not quite full height since I am not comfortable with that big over hang at that height but it showed no reluctance to going higher.

That is pretty indicative of the stuff I am moving. Most are smaller and lighter. The large diameter {20"+) ones get cut a lot shorter.

Dan

 

[mcfarmall]

Precision Mfg, Worksaver are a couple of suppliers to investigate.

 

[jimr63]

Not sure where that number is coming from. Kubota specs the max lift weight (at the pins) at 1131lbs. That is consistent with what I observed on my L2501 and there's also a couple of youtube video tests that got almost the same number. It won't come close to 2000lbs (or I likely wouldn't have traded it in.)

Agree, as far as I know all Kubota loader model numbers are based on the the max lift capacity at the pins to full height. In other words, the LA525 can lift 525kgs or 525x2.2=1155 lbs more or less.

p.s. Disregard, I’m too slow on the keyboard. Same information covered better above.

 

[mcmxi]

mcmxi - Out of respect for the op, and keeping HIS thread on-track, I'm not going to respond to your off-topic nonsense. Kubota PUBLISHES lift capacity for the L2501. When we are speaking about LIFT CAPACITIES, I think that's the spec that is relevant. Neither me or the op cares about your MX and what its capacities are.

Of course you're not because you're wrong. You've made an erroneous statement that Kubota literature confirms and now you're upset again. The MX was merely an example that showed you to be wrong about this just as you are about many other things. I hear it's lovely over on the Kioti forum ... quiet but lovely.

 

[mcmxi]

I don’t care about horsepower ratings. They mean nothing. What matters is the weight you are trying to lift. I’m not going to put a 500lb implement on my tractor when that is already half of my lifting capacity.

That's smart. You mentioned trying to stay under 300lb which is also smart. I'm sure you'll find an excellent grapple for a price that is good for you. That little Land Pride I had on the BX wasn't more than a baby grapple but it did exactly what I bought it for and that was to pick up long, reasonably heavy logs so that I could cut them up for firewood. I tried to pick up and move some fairly small boulders but I never had much success doing that. I would chain them to the bucket and drag/lift them if possible.

I think the EA grapples are overbuilt for many owners because most aren't going to abuse them the way Ted does. I needed something tough and durable because of the terrible "soil" up here which is basically pulverized rock with rocks and boulders of every imaginable size mixed in. Digging more than 12" down turns into a rock fest.